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[7Makaveli]

*tells BlackMetal "if I fall behind......just GO!"*



on a painfully serious note, I've always held the notion that with Samara you can't get a "romance", but rather a "romantic moment". The former implies a "happily ever after" while the latter implies a "happy for this one and only moment". The reason ties into the professional, emotional, and spiritual nature of what the Samara character represents. It could be as simple as an acknowledgement of a connection between them (which has arguably already been had), a sort of passive Love Epiphany that stays tongue in cheek for this instance.

[Ashira Shepard]

*ahem*



Something I did while messing around with the editor on Photobucket.







That question always come to mind when I think of Morinth. I'm inclined to believe "Made" rather than "Born."

[7Makaveli]

AshiraShepard wrote...

*ahem*

Something I did while messing around with the editor on Photobucket.



That question always come to mind when I think of Morinth. I'm inclined to believe "Made" rather than "Born."

.........................................ohhhhwelll dayum this is pretty awesome lady!


Everyone is born with the potential to become of a monster (some more than others), but I am of the opinion that circumstances lead you into the path of the monster. In the same vein a monster can also be engineered from a fundamental source, but it wouldn't then be born in the natural sense. So there is some definitional arrangements to be made.

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:52 .

[7Makaveli]

what a coincidence I would find this now ...



Forgive Me Mother

I'd be inclined to forgive 'er there..

..but then again Morinth is devlishly tricky...

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 11 juillet 2010 - 07:57 .

[Ashira Shepard]

She's a good actor, but I don't think she could fake crying.



1. She'd probably be disgusted with such a show "weakness" in the first place



2. Its hard to fake something that happens under great emotional stress if you yourself can't really feel anything. (if we're inclined to think she's just evil and heartless to the core)



But I'd agree with you Mak, I'd be wary, but yeah...difficult situation 101.



Oh, and thanks :3 *cuddles*

[7Makaveli]

well here's a situation I would think of for that picture.

1. Samara has tracked Morinth down to Omega, and is investigating a crime which looks kind of sloppy for Morinth's standards. Is she losing her touch, or something more?

2. Its easy for Samara to find Morinth, but when she does, Morinth totally breaks down and asks for forgiveness and mercy, ignoring that Samara is a Justicar and playing on the fact that she is her mother.

3. Samara is briefly staggered by the emotional context of the situation, and realizes that she is compelled to honor justice.

4. Morinth is her smartest, wisest, strongest daughter. The reason this all began, and the reason she is a Justicar.

5. Is Morinth genuine in wanting to end this madness?

6. Or is she simply doing what is necessary to trap and take out her biggest threat?



DHUN DHUN DHUUNNNNNN!

I'm sure most will say, she has to kill her cause not only is it her duty, but Morinth is past the point of resolve. But still..interesting to think about ...

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 11 juillet 2010 - 08:15 .

[Ashira Shepard]

I always love the scenarios you think of Mak :3 *cuddles*



It's certainly interesting to think of, but unfortunately yes, she is well past the point where she can just say "sorry."



Tis all so sad :<

[Ashira Shepard]

Here Mak! I gief you picture to caption!

[Kudara]

Well in defense of going either way. In all honesty the sense of time in this game is very weird. We really have no idea how much time passes in between Morinth dying and the conversation. Ideally I would have actually broken that up into separate dialogue options so the opportunity to push for romance has the sense of coming further after the conversation about Samara being free.



As for how Shepard knows, realistically how do any of us know someone's interested in us? Maybe Samara shows up for coffee/tea at the same time as Shepard, or they workout together etc. Maybe Shepard's realized that Samara genuinely likes being around him/her. Maybe there are interested glances when the justicar thinks the human won't notice etc.



Samara actually says she thinks they could have more than just happiness together. I honestly think Shepard probably has a pretty good idea their interest is reciprocated by the time that it comes up in the conversation and it's not actually coming out of the blue.



Ok that's my 2 cents.

[Flamewielder]

As Kudara points out, the storytelling in ME2 doesn't give us a sense of time elapsed between Shep waking up and the suicide mission. The decision of making Samara turn down the offer of a romance was ultimately the correct one in this context. For many, it would seem like Samara went from grieving mother to lover in a few hours and that just seems too wrong.

By contrast, the other LI's are emotionally relieved by their loyalty missions. Samara gets closure at the cost of anguish and grief. That would definitely "spoil the mood" for me, so keeping it to the "interested friendship" level just felt right for my "canon" Shep.

Depending on how much time elapsed between the events of ME2 and ME3, I could well see romance bloom between Samara and (paragon) Shep. Something tasteful, understated, regal, fitting Samara's mystique. Something that could express itself in interrupt-like sequences you could unlock.

Take a page from Turian leadership handbooks and get a training room set up in the cargo bay... Train with partners in tactical simulations, get concussive-shot and teased by Garrus whenever you get distracted by the sight of Samara working up a sweat in her power-yoga sessions... or Jack punching the crap out of a sparring target... or Miri hitting the stairmaster  It could be set up a bit like Pinnacle Station, except that you'd be fighting against various team mates, depending on the specific scenario. You could hone your shooter/tactical skills against the AI and challenging opponents (i.e. the squaddies you've been building into Dirty Dozen-class badasses). Unlock unique squaddie dialogue whenever you achieve a target. That type of thing.

[DOYOURLABS]

Flamewielder wrote...

As Kudara points out, the storytelling in ME2 doesn't give us a sense of time elapsed between Shep waking up and the suicide mission. The decision of making Samara turn down the offer of a romance was ultimately the correct one in this context. For many, it would seem like Samara went from grieving mother to lover in a few hours and that just seems too wrong.

Exactly. We have no idea how long each mission took, how long it took to go from one planet to another. It could have been a couple of days between samara's loyalty mission and the "romance" scene or a couple of weeks. The time is very important in context

Take a page from Turian leadership handbooks and get a training room set up in the cargo bay... Train with partners in tactical simulations, get concussive-shot and teased by Garrus whenever you get distracted by the sight of Samara working up a sweat in her power-yoga sessions... 

He's going to need a lot of concussive shots 

[DOYOURLABS]

yorkj86 wrote...

Does the time elapsed have any bearing on the matter? Samara tells us that she's not interested in relationships and romance anymore. Would pressing her ever be right, given that one fact? As I asked before, it is very presumptuous of the Shepard who does press her, to ignore what she's said, and to continue, despite the fact that she's said she's not interested. In the act is the implicit notion that he knows Samara better than she does.

Which is why I never choose that option. When Shepard says "We have a connection" it irritates me. How does he or she know how Samara feels? Samara does hint she is interested in shepard when you ask whether or not the code forbids romance, but she still tells you she doesn't want a relationship. But back to the thing about time, if it's only a day or two after, it would just be shepard being opportunistic. Shepard would be taking advantage of a grieving mother who would probably be more open to comfort. If it was a couple of weeks after, maybe shepard thought something had changed and Samara's emotional scars were healed. When she said she wasn't interested in a relationship, her and shep were barely even friends. The feelings could have changed. I've never pursued the romance option but from what I picked up on these forums, she rejects you several times. Pushing after the first could be justified because she does get close to you and Shep's emotions take the better of him/her. But after the 2nd or 3rd, then it's just being "I'm shepard and I'm entitled to hot space babes"

[Kudara]

yorkj86 wrote...

Does the time elapsed have any bearing on the matter? Samara tells us that she's not interested in relationships and romance anymore. Would pressing her ever be right, given that one fact? As I asked before, it is very presumptuous of the Shepard who does press her, to ignore what she's said, and to continue, despite the fact that she's said she's not interested. In the act is the implicit notion that he knows Samara better than she does.

Well honestly if you were to look at what happens between your character and any of the LI's then it's unlikely that you would be with any of them after only five conversations.  For any of it to work, one has to read between the lines and assume you aren't aware of other interactions that are occuring.  Such as breakfast, lunch, dinner etc.  I'm assuming my character has to eat even though I never steer her to the table and sit her down to eat and I'm assuming she has to sleep, shower and use the bathroom as well.

I'm just saying that roleplay wise you have to assume that time is occuring offscreen and your character might have a very good basis for beliving that despite what Samara said a few months ago about not being interested in a romance she sure is giving off mixed signals now. 

PS. I also only pursued the romance once I realized you could get the almost kiss just to see it.  Then I went back and stopped when she asked.  I still hold that her admittance that you could be more than just happy together is one of the most bittersweet moments in the game.

Modifié par Kudara, 11 juillet 2010 - 03:45 .

[DOYOURLABS]

 I just watched the romance

:happy::crying:

[kelmar6821]

yorkj86 wrote...

Does the time elapsed have any bearing on the matter? Samara tells us that she's not interested in relationships and romance anymore. Would pressing her ever be right, given that one fact? As I asked before, it is very presumptuous of the Shepard who does press her, to ignore what she's said, and to continue, despite the fact that she's said she's not interested. In the act is the implicit notion that he knows Samara better than she does.

I just don't buy that once somebody says they're not interested that the topic is off limits for ever. People change and their opinions change. Besides that, the romance dialgue is the first and only time the issue is pushed. Its not like Shep is continually coming back to it or getting anywhere close to harassing her. No friendship or relationship could survive by avoiding a barrier forever the first time it's encountered and if it did, I don't think it would be one worth having.

[DOYOURLABS]

yorkj86 wrote...

kelmar6821 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Does the time elapsed have any bearing on the matter? Samara tells us that she's not interested in relationships and romance anymore. Would pressing her ever be right, given that one fact? As I asked before, it is very presumptuous of the Shepard who does press her, to ignore what she's said, and to continue, despite the fact that she's said she's not interested. In the act is the implicit notion that he knows Samara better than she does.

I just don't buy that once somebody says they're not interested that the topic is off limits for ever. People change and their opinions change. Besides that, the romance dialgue is the first and only time the issue is pushed. Its not like Shep is continually coming back to it or getting anywhere close to harassing her. No friendship or relationship could survive by avoiding a barrier forever the first time it's encountered and if it did, I don't think it would be one worth having.

How about considering the reasons for why Samara would say that she's not interested?  There are two that I can think of immediately:

1) Justicars are always on the move.  Having a relationship would necessitate attachment, time spent not Justicar'ing, spending time in places.  It would interfere with her Justicar duties.
2) Samara is traumatized to the intimacy of a relationship, due to her previous experience

But so does Shepard, and after the reapers are defeated, he can join her. And Samara will probably help Shepard until it is all over. With all the implants and cybernetics, Shepard might even live a century or two, we don't really know yet. 

She never really seems traumatized, but she probably is. The only reason her last relationship failed was because of the ardat-yakshi children, but since shepard is human she doesn't need to worry about that.

[DOYOURLABS]

yorkj86 wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

But so does Shepard, and after the reapers are defeated, he can join her. And Samara will probably help Shepard until it is all over. With all the implants and cybernetics, Shepard might even live a century or two, we don't really know yet. 

She never really seems traumatized, but she probably is. The only reason her last relationship failed was because of the ardat-yakshi children, but since shepard is human she doesn't need to worry about that.

What Shepard does after the Reapers are defeated is uncertain, and up to the player.  He may die, he may keep doing what a badass hero does, or he may buy a quiet plot of land somewhere remote and never pick a weapon up again.  Samara, though, has dedicated her life to Justicar'ing.  Justicars work alone.  it would be romantic to have Samara extend her observation of the Third Oath of Subsumation to allow herself to fight crime with Shepard, though :3

AY children occur much less often among non-Pureblood-pairings, but they can occur.

I was under the impression that it was only pureboold pairings, but you and the wiki say it can happen with non-purebloods. Now I have a reason to do another playthrough! 

I'm hoping my Shep survives, and if he does, I can't see him retiring anytime soon. So going around the galaxy with Samara sounds like the best option, but Samara would have to pledge the fourth oath of dual crime fighting bad-assery 

[DOYOURLABS]

yorkj86 wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

I was under the impression that it was only pureboold pairings, but you and the wiki say it can happen with non-purebloods. Now I have a reason to do another playthrough! 

I'm hoping my Shep survives, and if he does, I can't see him retiring anytime soon. So going around the galaxy with Samara sounds like the best option, but Samara would have to pledge the fourth oath of dual crime fighting bad-assery 

I edited my post just a little.  Check it out.  Also, "lol Asari genetics".

Do you think any college offers a course in Asari genetics? I think I know it better than human genetics. 

As for your changes, it depends. She may be willing to risk it if something happens in future DLC or in ME3 that can show her that a stable life is possible. Maybe once the reapers are defeated they can have a relationship, and Shepard promises to stay even if they are Ardat-Yakshi.

I'm still not 100% positive that Samara will remain a justicar. She completed her quest she started when she became a justicar. She saw that even the bad guys have good, like the collectors just being modified protheans. She was upset that she killed Morinth, and I'm assuming she feels guilty for making her suffer a life like that and feels responsible for the murders Morinth committed. Maybe she is starting to see there is a gray area in morality after all. 

[Ashira Shepard]

Thought this would be relevant for us.

[NICKjnp]

I thought that we all came to an agreement that we can't agree on Asari genetics.... because doing so is like trying to divide by zero or trying to get the square root of a negative number.

[DOYOURLABS]

Here is something asari related I came across... if morinth dies there is only 2 known ardat-yakshi left according to Samara, according to the codex 1% of asari are, and according to the food guy on the citadel and the description of wine on illium there is a monastery of them. So Samara was either wrong, lying, or deceived by the asari media (which according to the wiki happens). Yay for double checking facts before publishing a game!