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[DOYOURLABS]

Arhka wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

kelmar6821 wrote...

If Samara had a non AY daughter who followed in her foot steps, that would be it.

samara & shepard's daughter amirite lolololo

Only if she wanted another AY running around

Ardat-Yakshi are only possible in pureblood-pureblood asari couplings.

The codex and wiki says you can have it in non-purebloods but it is really rare

[Kudara]

DOYOURLABS wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Something occurred to me while I was writing chapter 3 of my fanfic. Did Shepard receive N7 training before or after Elysium, Akuze, etc. ?

I think after?  Shepard was in command of the soldiers on Akuze, for example, but I don't think he was N7 yet.

I think before.  He received his N (special forces) status during his alliance training.  He got his top grade in it after the Elysium, Akuze, Torfan incident.  Why would a regular soldier be leading an elite group to take out pirates on Torphan?  How could he have had the training to stop the slavers on Elysium?  How did he have the survival skills to survive the Thresher Maws on Akuze?  I think that he received his training before these situation but achieved the top proficieny/rank (7) after them.

That makes sense. The N in N7 designates special forces, and 7 just means the top rank. But couldn't have those actions caught the attention of Alliance Brass so they moved him to special forces? I mean, he's Shepard, he probably could have defended Elysium by himself.

In my fanfic I have my Shepard recieving the N training before those things take place, it just makes more sense that someone with such specilized and difficult training should be able to accomplish the things Shepard is supposed to accomplish during those situations.

[DOYOURLABS]

Kudara wrote...

In my fanfic I have my Shepard recieving the N training before those things take place, it just makes more sense that someone with such specilized and difficult training should be able to accomplish the things Shepard is supposed to accomplish during those situations.

Gah this is hard. I can make more of a story for it happening before, so I guess I'll go with that.

[Terraneaux]

yorkj86 wrote...

As for teammates stealing the "spotlight"  from Shepard - I think it's refreshing, I really do.  I can't imagine that any of them would be memorable without it being that way.  It's humbling to think that there are personalities out there that are bigger than Shepard's.  In this thread, we often mention how even Shepard seems humbled by Samara.  It makes me feel as if my Shepard is a cog in a well-oiled machine, and not the entire machine himself.  Do you think, though, that this coincides with the reduced RPG-elements of ME2?

Well, yes, but not quite in the way I think you mean.  Garrus, for example, tends to complement Shepard very well, without taking attention away from the main character.  Jack and Samara, in particular, seem to be written in a fashion that pushes Shepard to the sidelines, and there's no opportunity for Shep to say 'you're crazy, get the hell off my ship before I throw you out' to Jack, for instance.  Sure, the characters are very attention grabbing, but there's no chance to tie that spectacle into the main character's story.  

[Flamewielder]

Terraneaux wrote...
I have to say that I'd like to see her have some character development where she really has to face the implications of her actions and her responsibility for what happens when she's following her Code.  In particular, a situation in which another Justicar, perhaps a less thoughtful and more fanatical one, was hunting an Ardat Yakshi who had just realized her situation and was more in the 'running scared' mode, and the other Justicar wasn't really trying to capture her, just kill her.  How Samara reacted to a situation like that, with the strictness of the Code vs. what may very well have been an accidental string of deaths rather than murder, all tied up with her own regrets and feelings as a mother, would to me really be a test of her character and a good chance to see what she's like under that calm demeanor. 

Indeed. While it is likely BW doesn't intend to explore such character development using DLC , it would have been interesting to see. And the idea of asari influence in the creation of the SPECTRE's is interesting, as far as "carte blanche" operatives and Justicars are concerned.

As a matter of fact, the codex article on Justicars suggests asari "official" intelligence agencies keep tabs on the Justicars because of fears that Justicars might eventually find THEM unjust and try to impose their inflexible standards of justice throughtout all aspects of asari society... That's an appealing story idea for character exploration and development, an opportunity to examine justicars more closely with examples of the Code being applied with less compassion, or a justicar letting compassion "taint" an interpretation of same Code. I can easily envision 2 Justicars dueling over conflicting perceptions of the Code, one pigeonholing gray into white, the other into black. Or a team of asari commandos being tasked into "removing" an inconvenient Justicar before she interferes with some asari goverment agency.

The one big difference i see between Justicars and SPECTRES is rules. BW's imperfect writing notwithstanding, Justicars have plenty, they cover all situations (probably pidgeon-holing many "gray" ones in either black or white) and are only accountable to the Code (with other Justicars enforcing it). SPECTRES have little or no written down rules: they do whatever they feel is necessary (including breaking the law, murdering innocents,etc...) to achieve the results expected by the Council. The only rule they need to worry about is: "Don't ****** off the Council." So SPECTRES can be the bluest of paragons or the reddest of renegades, as long as they achieve the end result demanded by the council (which allows us players to play Shepard anyway we want; i.e. SPECTRES are a plot device).

Anyway, not trying to say 'you're all bad for liking this character and you should feel bad!,' but rather just trying to have a reasoned discussion about the character.

Always stimulating! Welcome back, Terraneaux!

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...
But Jack and Samara are my favorite characters.  What does this say?    You calling me politically bipolar, Flamewielder?  :happy:

You and me both, my friend!

But on some level, I suspect most people have experienced some dissappointment with either their goverment, justice system or merely politicians. On the one hand we wish for perfect, true justice (criminal and social) but we distrust our imperfect institutions and rulers. So we strike and imperfect balance between the two extremes. The important thing is to follow one's personal moral compass and try to achieve personal happiness and try not to prevent others from achieveing theirs in the process.

[Ashira Shepard]

*cough* Pariah related->

Talinth Social Behaviour/Body Language and Communication

It helps. I was also looking at feline physiology, it was quite interesting because I love animals and I like learning things about them that I wasn't aware of before. Example: they have a free-floating clavicle bone which allows them to move their bodies through a space their head will fit through.

*ahem* Samara related,

*gushes like a fangirl over Kudara's latest chapter and runs around with sparklers* I love it!!

Anyway, I always had trouble with people who see the world as "black and white" because if the world really was like that, things might not be as messed up. Grey is everywhere, but so is "black" and "white" morality; by discounting the existence of grey you might as well put a blindfold on.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 20 juillet 2010 - 03:12 .

[7Makaveli]

AshiraShepard wrote...

*cough* Pariah related->

Talinth Social Behaviour/Body Language and Communication

It helps. I was also looking at feline physiology, it was quite interesting because I love animals and I like learning things about them that I wasn't aware of before. Example: they have a free-floating clavicle bone which allows them to move their bodies through a space their head will fit through.

Do the Talinth also cat smile when happy? :3

-----------------------

Mass
Effect 2 initially sets the asari Justicar
Samara up as Lawful
Stupid: on the way to recruiting her, the player hears a lot about
the Justicar's Code and how it requires Justicars to act in Lawful
Stupid fashion, and the police officers in the area are anxious to
get her off their planet before her Code compels her to kill someone.
When Commander
Shepard actually meets Samara, however, she proves to be a
subversion, as she's been a Justicar for centuries and is perfectly
capable of maneuvering herself and her Code to avoid being forced into
stupid behavior.

Partial subversion since she might be willing to maneuvre
herself to avoid some casualties, she is amazingly blunt about the
body-count she'll accept, even once telling Shepard that the Code is a
black-and-white set of rules in a grey world.

so did anyone think the Justicars were lawful stupid before you approached Samara? Does the wisdom to manuever around The Code (such as Samara does) only  become acceptable after centuries of experience? Maybe after a certain amount of time a Justicar can become available for the Third Oath, and that's why Illusive Man chose Samara...he knew she was at a point where she can cooperate with other individuals in this sense, and she was out of Asari space too. Because I think we've all agreed that sending a dossier for a hyper-independant monastic warrior doesn't make sense unless you're assured there is a chance they will cooperate with you temporarily.

[DOYOURLABS]

AshiraShepard wrote...

*cough* Pariah related->

Talinth Social Behaviour/Body Language and Communication

Alot simpler than asari genetics! 

[7Makaveli]

yorkj86 wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...

so did anyone think the Justicars were lawful stupid before you approached Samara? Does the wisdom to manuever around The Code (such as Samara does) only  become acceptable after centuries of experience? Maybe after a certain amount of time a Justicar can become available for the Third Oath, and that's why Illusive Man chose Samara...he knew she was at a point where she can cooperate with other individuals in this sense, and she was out of Asari space too. Because I think we've all agreed that sending a dossier for a hyper-independant monastic warrior doesn't make sense unless you're assured there is a chance they will cooperate with you temporarily.

That makes it seem as Justicars learn, with experience, that the Code is a system to be tip-toed around, and sometimes, abused.  That seems entirely contrary to the purpose of having the Code in the first place.   Or are you saying that Justicar initiates have an aversion to using the Third Oath, because it seems like a way of bypassing the very thing they learned to dedicate their life to?

I'm not a fan of the Third Oath, I think its a poor plot device they used. But if there is such a thing where there is a certain amount of time span that has to be elapsed before Justicars can use it I think it would make more sense with how the Code is structured in its strictness. Maybe the Justicars have to learn to trust themselves through experience first-hand before they can throw their responsibilities to someone else like that.



...truthfully I'm just saying controversial stuff to spurn conversation

[7Makaveli]

...

Down Below (Chapter Two)

...

[DOYOURLABS]

 Chapter three is done, here it is if you would like to read it: http://social.biowar...31929/blog/7121

I'll be in the Bahamas for the next three days and I probably won't make it on to the forums, try not to miss me too much 

Modifié par DOYOURLABS, 21 juillet 2010 - 01:53 .

[Kudara]

7Makaveli wrote...

...

Down Below (Chapter Two)

...

Hah poor Shepard, I hope nothing too terrible is waiting down there.

[BlackMetal]

DOYOURLABS wrote...

 Chapter three is done, here it is if you would like to read it: http://social.biowar...31929/blog/7121

I'll be in the Bahamas for the next three days and I probably won't make it on to the forums, try not to miss me too much 

Have fun. And since it's the Bahamas, Smoke some Weed!

[Ashira Shepard]

More Discussion Fuel (I hope)

Regarding the "Bring Down the Sky" DLC.

Mass Effect 2 Wikia states...

"When all enemies are defeated, Balak will show himself. He will tell you
about the troubles his people have faced and blame them all on
humanity's influence. He is furious that the torches have been shut
down. He sees this as an act of reprisal for humanity's actions in the
Skyllian Verge, stealing territories and resources that should have
belonged to the batarians, all because the Council saw a military advantage in befriending the Alliance. If you are a War Hero, he has a particular grudge against you after the Skyllian Blitz. If you are Ruthless,
he will say what he's doing is no different from what you did at
Torfan. Answer as you wish, and he will also tell you that there are
hostages locked away in a room with an explosive that he's prepared to
detonate, unless you offer him safe passage out of the building and off
the asteroid.
"

And then the choice you have to make after he's tried to slam a meteor into Terra Nova.

"Word of God" states...

"You are now faced with a choice: let Balak go, and risk him causing
havoc in the future but save the hostages; or attack him knowing you
will sacrifice the hostages."

There are three hostages. But so many more lives could be put in danger if Balak is let go.

Now put Samara in this situation.

[NICKjnp]

Heavy Reave and then she goes to release the hostages.

[7Makaveli]

AshiraShepard wrote...

More Discussion Fuel (I hope)

Regarding the "Bring Down the Sky" DLC.

Mass Effect 2 Wikia states...

"When all enemies are defeated, Balak will show himself. He will tell you
about the troubles his people have faced and blame them all on
humanity's influence. He is furious that the torches have been shut
down. He sees this as an act of reprisal for humanity's actions in the
Skyllian Verge, stealing territories and resources that should have
belonged to the batarians, all because the Council saw a military advantage in befriending the Alliance. If you are a War Hero, he has a particular grudge against you after the Skyllian Blitz. If you are Ruthless,
he will say what he's doing is no different from what you did at
Torfan. Answer as you wish, and he will also tell you that there are
hostages locked away in a room with an explosive that he's prepared to
detonate, unless you offer him safe passage out of the building and off
the asteroid.
"

And then the choice you have to make after he's tried to slam a meteor into Terra Nova.

"Word of God" states...

"You are now faced with a choice: let Balak go, and risk him causing
havoc in the future but save the hostages; or attack him knowing you
will sacrifice the hostages."

There are three hostages. But so many more lives could be put in danger if Balak is let go.

Now put Samara in this situation.

*sits down on nice long velvet chair*

You present a unique situation with immediate and long term consequences, but I have a trump card. It is the "Asari Long View" card. Assuming any regular Asari commando would think of the long term repercussions when making her choice, I would say a Justicar is governed by a similar doctrine to think of the long term when harmful consequences are foreseeable. The last part is bolded because you can bring up the counterargument of Samara and Nihlus, where she opted to save the innocent instead of bringing him to justice for killing an unarmed innocent. I think she made a judgment on whether the risk of letting Nihlus go was harmful enough to override saving the innocent, and cleary the risk wasn't enough, so she opted for the former. In this case, Balak is Nihlus, and he's killed innocents, and the long view tells Samara that he will kill more if she lets him go. This is the same inclination that allowed Samara to prioritize the killing of Morinth; she was going to continue killing. So I think the priority here would be to kill Balak, since he is the root of many injustices.

Others can argue that Justicars simply wouldn't look that deeply and would simply have no choice but to protect the innocent as the first order of business. But I saw support for the another action so I said what the hell

[Ashira Shepard]

And that's why I'm a paragade, I've always killed him.



Yes, I'm horrible =P



"What is more important? The lives of few or the lives of many?"