13634 réponses à ce sujet

[kelmar6821]

Its xbox original. I think its been ported to PC. 2005 game. Dated graphics but I highly recommend it if you're interested. Check the reviews.

[AKFTF]

The thread is alive again!

@JohnnyDollar

I was happy with ME2. It was a great game, and fun to play. This is a big compliment because I usually don't like shooters. The Mass Effect series is really special to me and I consider it my favorite game series. Although ME2 was slightly lacking in the RPG department I didn't mind...the introduction of great characters *coughSamaracough* really made up for it.

[AKFTF]

Well, I'm going to bed. I'll be back tomorrow.

[volly0071]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

There is a ton of complaining in the forums about the story, RPG elements, and dialog of ME2. What is the consensus here in this thread?

Oh know this is off topic, but am curious.

I might have a way to tie it in abit...might...

Samara is the only character that escapes most of these problems, to me. While there are more things I would loved to have disscussed with the character. What we did talk about  seemed pretty clear for both her char and mine. She is a defined character without lurking problems, meaning she is not a child, and doesn't have the kind damage most do.

The characters maturity lvl is somewhere near my own. I'm nearly 40 and have lived(take this how every one wants, nothing hostile intended). Samara's character has done the same. It possesses solid views based on experience and practice. Because of this she was the only char that appealed to me in a romantic way.

The romance I had with her char was the most fulfilling in the game. I never wanted it to go past the talks, and am glad it didn't. A story problem for me is with Shepard, and this applies to the whole series. Shep(RPG problem) is like 31-33ish or something, sry I all ways forget which. However, I am not. I do not think like a person in there early 30's anymore; just like a 23 year old doesn't think like a thirty year old. I think it was a bad idea to give Shepard an age when the players are going to be of varying ages.
(Rpg/ or lack of dialogue/ problem, or both depending on how you view things) This is the only time I was bothered by Samara's development. "...that wouldn't be a particularly viable future..."

Nope, sure wouldn't. However, that does not answer/ address whether, or not it is a possible future. While I like the char having a solid view/ belief in this, I didn't like not being able to 1) challenge it or 2) at lest my char reflex a nope, sure isn't response...(challenge). While pointing out one thing like might seem like being picky. It is not when the game is full of situations like these (which I won't go into here).
 
But, back to the lady of honor here. I  Samara, and imo, one best 3 new chars in the game. If Samara is in ME3 my hope is that she will not be reduced to a just add penis/ vagina option. I think that would really destroy the wonderful char that I think they made with her.  

[Kudara]

yorkj86 wrote...

Bioware could finagle in an explanation for Samara staying with Shepard by having her say that, technically, her Oath to Shepard hasn't ended - only one step has been completed. The final task would be defeating the Reapers. Unless the Justicar Order is as incompetent as the Council, there is no threat in the galaxy that has the potential to destroy more innocent lives than the Reapers. Samara should be obligated to stay.

Samara already is my Shepard's advisor. From a roleplaying perspective, he trusts her more than he trusts some of the ME1 teammates. She's incorruptible.

While she might leave the team temporarily to deal with some things I see her coming back to join the fight against the Reapers for this very reason.  There is no greather threat to the asari people, innocents, and all sentient life than the Reapers.  I would think she would be breaking her oath by not fighting against them.

[Kudara]

kelmar6821 wrote...

I concur that her outfits never seem to fit her (no pun intended). I really do hope they give her something none eyeglass shaded and tasteful in a appearance pack.

Now, I am going to go play a game. So I leave you with a fanfic. Not mine, but I enjoyed it all the same. Later peoples!

http://www.fanfictio...llin_Me_Stories

This is a nice story, and well worth the read.  Don't forget to feed the author if you like it.

[devilsgrin]

i personally can't see how Samara's outfit detracts in any way from either her Morals, or the Justicar Code.
Human Prudishness is just that, human prudishness, whether dressed up in "but people would take her more seriously if her boobs weren't all up in our faces" or in the more obvious :"its just in such poor taste, she would look so much better with her chest covered up."
Applying Human standards to an Asari who is at least 600 years old, and in her own words seems much closer to 1000, is foolish.

The Asari most definitely take Samara seriously. Shep definitely takes her seriously... even if he/she isn't trying to make her an LI. Her cleavage doesn't detract in any way from the seriousness in which the Mass Effect universe perceives her.

You can "but its a game made by humans" me all you want, doesn't change the fact that in the setting we are playing ME2 in, the Asari are an alien species, with alien morals, and Samara specifically has her alien Code. She could be wearing a Chain-Mail Space Bikini, but if we were told it was the traditional dress of an Asari Justicar, than it wouldn't make any difference to Samara's character, morals or Code. (other than BioWare upping the cheese/cliche factor)

I love both her Red and Black outfits, and not because her cleavage is profound whilst she's wearing them. There's a quintessential feminine warrior vibe she gets from wearing the uniform she does. its sleek, minimal, obviously well tailored, and presents her as the ultimate "you do not want to mess with me" look, even the mega-heeled boots are threatening and feminine at the same time. She is presented perfectly as is. I hope the Appearance Package which includes her new outift retains this essence.

Modifié par devilsgrin, 27 mars 2010 - 12:09 .

[Kudara]

7Makaveli wrote...

Shepard is already on his "other" life. Smarten up Shepard, you could have used that line!

I'm having trouble even imagining her response to this line....  LOL

[Kudara]

yorkj86 wrote...
Not to mention she's nearly a thousand years old. Wouldn't that make her a Matriarch, if she wasn't a Justicar already? Seems to me that mating is purely something Maidens and Matrons do. The first do it because it's fun, the latter because they want to produce ofspring. But Matriarchs... Besides all the emotional stress her daughters (willingly or unwillingly) have put her through, I think Samara simply doesn't has the biological drive anymore.

Then again, this just about mating. Don't know if a Matriarch would be interested in entering an entirely new relationship with someone. An emotional relationship with only limited physical interaction, but a relationship nonetheless. (end quote)

I don't think she's quite a Matriarch, otherwise why is one of her evolved powers to give her the biotic control of a Matriarch?

Personally I'd guess she had children between the ages of 200 - 350 ish, she stopped her maiden wandering early by her own words and settled down with another asari to have children.  Then she had three daughters, Morinth started running at 50? 40? and she's been chasing after her for 400 years.  I'd put her age between 700 to 800 if I were to guess.

I'd say she's either an early Matriarch by her own desire or just on the cusp of it.

I think she gave that nearly a thousand a few hundred years leeway

Kudara

Modifié par Kudara, 27 mars 2010 - 12:25 .

[Kudara]

Flamewielder wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
[That is love - small things, like quick glances across a hallway and stray smiles, not huge, earth-shaking revelations where two characters confess their love for each other and sob in each other's arms.
To say the least, there's a reason Samara's smiles mean far more to me than hugs and kisses from other characters.

To illustrate:

In Musashi (Eiji Yoshikawa, 1995), a skilled but arrogant warrior travels to the castle of a famed swordmaster and begs an opportunity to fight against him. The swordmaster sends him a flower from his garden as an answer. Insulted, the warrior departs.

Later, the hero arrives at the castle with the same intent but happens to notice the discarded flower. Noticing the perfection of the sword stroke used to cut the flower, the hero realizes he is not ready to train with such a swordmaster. Instead, he asks to learn about gardening, demonstrating both wisdom and humility.

The ancient swordmaster, after having spent a few years teaching the hero about respect for growth and life, eventually shares his swordsmanship with him. The swordmaster teaches that the taking of life is a grave matter, and must only be performed  with the full appreciation and knowledge of what the warrior is extinguishing/ending.

Such subtelty was obviously lost on the the first warrior...

Beautiful illustration Flamewielder.  I don't suppose you write do you?

[Flamewielder]

I wouldn't characterize Samara as "ruthless" so much as "uncompromising". A ruthless person regrets nothing. Samara obviously feels pain or regret:

"Do I really want to know this criminal is also a loving father?"

A ruthless person simply wouldn't care. Samara doesn't want to know because it would hurt.

Complexity, depth, unconventional for a female computer RPG character.

<doing my best Shep impression> "I'm 43, and Samara's my favorite squadmate in ME2"

[devilsgrin]

Also, just on Matriarchs, Benezia had Liara very late in her life, either JUST on the Matron side of the Matriarch line, or after it even.

Since Morinth is at approx 440 years old, and she seems to be the youngest of the three daughters, just going on implications Samara makes whilst mentioning them having chosen the life of seclusion, that Morinth decided that was not the path for her. It would make sense for Samara to be at least 700 hundred now.

[Gammalfarmor]

Morinth is the oldest of the three.

[Ashira Shepard]

devilsgrin wrote...

i personally can't see how Samara's outfit detracts in any way from either her Morals, or the Justicar Code.
Human Prudishness is just that, human prudishness, whether dressed up in "but people would take her more seriously if her boobs weren't all up in our faces" or in the more obvious :"its just in such poor taste, she would look so much better with her chest covered up."
Applying Human standards to an Asari who is at least 600 years old, and in her own words seems much closer to 1000, is foolish.

The Asari most definitely take Samara seriously. Shep definitely takes her seriously... even if he/she isn't trying to make her an LI. Her cleavage doesn't detract in any way from the seriousness in which the Mass Effect universe perceives her.

You can "but its a game made by humans" me all you want, doesn't change the fact that in the setting we are playing ME2 in, the Asari are an alien species, with alien morals, and Samara specifically has her alien Code. She could be wearing a Chain-Mail Space Bikini, but if we were told it was the traditional dress of an Asari Justicar, than it wouldn't make any difference to Samara's character, morals or Code. (other than BioWare upping the cheese/cliche factor)

I love both her Red and Black outfits, and not because her cleavage is profound whilst she's wearing them. There's a quintessential feminine warrior vibe she gets from wearing the uniform she does. its sleek, minimal, obviously well tailored, and presents her as the ultimate "you do not want to mess with me" look, even the mega-heeled boots are threatening and feminine at the same time. She is presented perfectly as is. I hope the Appearance Package which includes her new outift retains this essence.

You, dear sir, just vocalised how I view her appearance perfectly.

I like you; you get a cookie. *whispers* It has magic mushrooms...

EDIT: Oldest...? *scratches head* That...doesn't make sense.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 27 mars 2010 - 01:11 .

[Kudara]

yorkj86 wrote...

AKFTF wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

AKFTF wrote...

Interesting. I thought characters were just designed, not all modeled after real people. Thanks for the info!

I heard somewhere that Bioware had real-life face-models for most of the PCs and NPCs in the  ME games.  Characters that are the obvious exception are aliens that have very dissimilar facial features to humans.   I  heard that Jack has no face-model, but that the animators pored over animating her facial expressions.  They did a good job.   Jack is beautiful, and her facial animations are great.

Speaking of Jack, how do you think Samara would respond to her and the other members in general? I think this was a detail ME2 lacked-squad interaction.

Jack would be a moral quandary for Samara.   Jack is Jack because it's the way she found to survive.  She turned to criminal behavior because it was the way things worked in the world she lived in growing up, from the very second she caught a shuttle off of Pragia.  Samara would be faced with the age-old question of whether or not a person can be moral if they engage in criminal activity because they have no alternative, because they have to do it to survive.

Some of what Jack did was mostly inexcusable, and excessive.   Crashing a space-station in to a moon?    That's not exactly stealing a loaf of bread to feed one's family.  I think Samara would be highly intolerant of Jack.

My Shepad would speak ethics with Samara for hours.  I'd dump all of my J.S. Mill texts on the floor next to her and just start reading to her.

I honestly think Samara could acknowledge that Jack is a complex character and is mostly the way she is because of what Cerberus did to her as a child and the fact that she's done a fantistic job (before Shep finds her) of associating with people who continue to abuse her. 

The fact that Jack can still be reached and wants to get better is amazing.  I think Samara could recognize that my Shep is trying to help Jack and be interested in seeing if Shep can suceed.

After all, Jack is the perfect example of why innocents should be protected, one has to wonder what Jack would have been like if she hadn't been so severely abused.

Kudara

[devilsgrin]

AshiraShepard wrote...

devilsgrin wrote...

i personally can't see how Samara's outfit detracts in any way from either her Morals, or the Justicar Code.
Human Prudishness is just that, human prudishness, whether dressed up in "but people would take her more seriously if her boobs weren't all up in our faces" or in the more obvious :"its just in such poor taste, she would look so much better with her chest covered up."
Applying Human standards to an Asari who is at least 600 years old, and in her own words seems much closer to 1000, is foolish.

The Asari most definitely take Samara seriously. Shep definitely takes her seriously... even if he/she isn't trying to make her an LI. Her cleavage doesn't detract in any way from the seriousness in which the Mass Effect universe perceives her.

You can "but its a game made by humans" me all you want, doesn't change the fact that in the setting we are playing ME2 in, the Asari are an alien species, with alien morals, and Samara specifically has her alien Code. She could be wearing a Chain-Mail Space Bikini, but if we were told it was the traditional dress of an Asari Justicar, than it wouldn't make any difference to Samara's character, morals or Code. (other than BioWare upping the cheese/cliche factor)

I love both her Red and Black outfits, and not because her cleavage is profound whilst she's wearing them. There's a quintessential feminine warrior vibe she gets from wearing the uniform she does. its sleek, minimal, obviously well tailored, and presents her as the ultimate "you do not want to mess with me" look, even the mega-heeled boots are threatening and feminine at the same time. She is presented perfectly as is. I hope the Appearance Package which includes her new outift retains this essence.

You, dear sir, just vocalised how I view her appearance perfectly.

I like you; you get a cookie. *whispers* It has magic mushrooms...

EDIT: Oldest...? *scratches head* That...doesn't make sense.

a cookie laced with MMs? awesome. of course our Justicar wouldn't partake, but its just one more reason to worship her, whilst eating said laced cookies...

Oldest? was that bit for me?

[Keltoris]

Kudara wrote...

I honestly think Samara could acknowledge that Jack is a complex character and is mostly the way she is because of what Cerberus did to her as a child and the fact that she's done a fantistic job (before Shep finds her) of associating with people who continue to abuse her. 

The fact that Jack can still be reached and wants to get better is amazing.  I think Samara could recognize that my Shep is trying to help Jack and be interested in seeing if Shep can suceed.

After all, Jack is the perfect example of why innocents should be protected, one has to wonder what Jack would have been like if she hadn't been so severely abused.

Kudara

I approve of the tangent.

[Gammalfarmor]

It makes sense since Samara says that Morinth is the oldest, smartest and wildest of them.

[Whatcote Park]

volly0071 wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

There is a ton of complaining in the forums about the story, RPG elements, and dialog of ME2. What is the consensus here in this thread?

Oh know this is off topic, but am curious.

I might have a way to tie it in abit...might...

Samara is the only character that escapes most of these problems, to me. While there are more things I would loved to have disscussed with the character. What we did talk about  seemed pretty clear for both her char and mine. She is a defined character without lurking problems, meaning she is not a child, and doesn't have the kind damage most do.

The characters maturity lvl is somewhere near my own. I'm nearly 40 and have lived(take this how every one wants, nothing hostile intended). Samara's character has done the same. It possesses solid views based on experience and practice. Because of this she was the only char that appealed to me in a romantic way.

The romance I had with her char was the most fulfilling in the game. I never wanted it to go past the talks, and am glad it didn't. A story problem for me is with Shepard, and this applies to the whole series. Shep(RPG problem) is like 31-33ish or something, sry I all ways forget which. However, I am not. I do not think like a person in there early 30's anymore; just like a 23 year old doesn't think like a thirty year old. I think it was a bad idea to give Shepard an age when the players are going to be of varying ages.
(Rpg/ or lack of dialogue/ problem, or both depending on how you view things) This is the only time I was bothered by Samara's development. "...that wouldn't be a particularly viable future..."

Nope, sure wouldn't. However, that does not answer/ address whether, or not it is a possible future. While I like the char having a solid view/ belief in this, I didn't like not being able to 1) challenge it or 2) at lest my char reflex a nope, sure isn't response...(challenge). While pointing out one thing like might seem like being picky. It is not when the game is full of situations like these (which I won't go into here).
 
But, back to the lady of honor here. I  Samara, and imo, one best 3 new chars in the game. If Samara is in ME3 my hope is that she will not be reduced to a just add penis/ vagina option. I think that would really destroy the wonderful char that I think they made with her.  

I see where you're coming from; maybe after the mass effect trilogy they'll have a character of unspecified age.
And nor would I like to see Samara become some kind of milf in me3 since that would simply not fit in with her character. On the other hand, I do agree with shepard that she does need a little break, and could use with a bit of emotional exchange with our shepards.
Great to see that we've easily passed 40 pages! Next stop 50 pages by the end of the weekend!

[Gammalfarmor]

If she is a romance option they should really build it into a romance and not just casual sex.

[Flamewielder]

Kudara wrote...
Beautiful illustration Flamewielder.  I don't suppose you write do you?

Not well enough to make a living out of it...  But I do enjoy writing and I'm an avid reader.

But going back to Samara, it's nice that the writing staff at BW bothered introducing such a complex character. Some people complain there are simply too many characters and that ME2 might have been a better game with fewer, richer, characters.

The problem this raises is: what if none of the characters appeal to you, as a player? A comment I often read about the ME1 romances is that people chose their romance because "the other LI was worse". As if people should "settle for" the least annoying partner...

The reason you put in more characters is just so you increase the chance that you'll find 2 of them you REALLY like, regardless of what type of Shepard you play.

Samara has a maturity that appeals to older, more mature players. They relate to Samara and understand her better. Younger players will relate to other characters better, whose personality/emotions touches them. For example, there's a lot of angst and inner rage at the world in Jack, which any young adult will relate to to some degree. That doesn't make Jack's character any less interesting, it just makes her more appealing to players younger than myself (of which there are many, I'm sure)...

As to the age difference between a player and Shepard (who's around 30-31 by the time of ME2), I'd say I've known some very mature 30 years-olds (some who actually ended up dating/marrying older spouses)  and I've met more than my share of immature thirty-somethings whose antics would have felt quite in character for a college frat house... Me, I just play a mature 30-year old Shepard and it works all right so far...