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[DOYOURLABS]

All we know is they make honey mead wine, there are guards, and there is AY people inside. I'd assume it has pretty tight security too.

[Kudara]

And those inside aren't allowed personal communicators and have to use communal one's which are presumably monitored. (Which would be how the SB got a transcript)

[Kudara]

I have no ideal, but the SB has it and it's dated 1755.

[DirtyVagrant]

The files the Shadow Broker keeps on ANY asari must be massive.

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

Why would they archive that data for 400 years?

Well, where they're staying is probably run similarly to any modern prison. In that, incoming/outgoing conversations are logged and stored (in reality, for trial use, in theirs...who knows...). Once Samara became a person of interest (running around with Shepard), the guy went digging into her background, coming up with profiles and all that.

Modifié par adriano_c, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:33 .

[7Makaveli]

adriano_c wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Eclipse are mercs. As I said, she has
prior experience as a mercenary. It ended with her killing her entire
company, after they didn't want to hear her objections to finding out
they were transporting slaves.

Yeah, let's see, a one-off tour with some Eclipse providing guns and support, which doesn't result in her children being condemned to a "dank fortress" for the next several centuries...or doing that, and becoming some sort of deranged, itinerant monk.

Well, Samara as a mother was a teacher of virtue and goodwill, she was well past her merc days, I don't think she would want to go back to that expecially after what happened her last go around with them. So when Mirala ran off, she really didn't have that choice, especially when she would start dealing with Eclipse herself, leaving Samara with no leverage on them. There was either:

not claiming responsibility and letting authorities handle it

1) if she escaped Thessia and Asari Space (inevitable) it would be out of Asari juridiction. Samara couldn't live with the guilt that she had let loose an AY into a galaxy that is unaware of and unprepared to deal with one. Okay so maybe the whole galaxy isn't in grave danger, but Samara has the empathy to see all the innocents that will suffer, they all would be someone's daughters or sons, and that's something she knows of all to well.

2) the authorities would ask Samara questions she wasn't prepared to answer, and it may even mean harsher treatment to her other two daughters fearing they would escape like Mirala did. I guessed she evaluated it would be better to leave authorities out of it for the sake of not letting her daughters have to get involved.

or aligning herself with the Monastic Order

1) The Order is the highest traditional level of justice for the Asari. Now you can argue whether or not there should be one in the first place and how silly a black and white view is, but it exists for the simple reason of resolving disputes that reach a level where no other resolve is possible. Its not like they're sending in Justicars to execute someone who robbed a liquor store. Humanity still has the death penalty...probably still in the in-game universe, so its not farfetched to presume a highly advanced race would have a sect that personally deals these matters in a swift manner.

2) The AY situation had to have reached this level, I don't think running away was the main reason that pushed Samara into the Order, but hearing of Morinth's subsequent killing streak would have.

3) The Order gives Samara the training and pedigree to resolve it personally, no questions asked. Even out of Asari Space, people have heard of Justicars.

Now, the thing about "deserting" her daughters. On the surface it seems like that. But there is two sides to it, one I've already explained about why Samara felt she had to do it. The other is not only have her daughters been quarantined, but her partner had evidently left her. I can't imagine Samara just putting her hands in her pockets, kicking the floor, and just going home after all that. For some tragic reason, her family was torn apart and there was nothing she could do about it. She had no one, and all her material wealth doesn't mean anything if there is no family to fill it with. She also probably couldn't live with having to see her daughters through a "glass wall" for the next 500 years. With all her resolve, its just unfair to not let her find reason and purpose in all of this. And if that purpose is to align with a righteous Code to stop a daughter of hers that is going to go on to kill many innocents, than I see it as far from deranged, and quite justifiable.

PS: I know you were playing devil's advocate

[Ashira Shepard]

Healing the Broken



Makaveli was a great help in writing that.



*ahem* I'll go hide now...*slithers under stone*

[Flamewielder]

Kudara wrote...
I have no ideal, but the SB has it and it's dated 1755.

The in-game Codex states that the asari government intelligence monitors the Justicar Order closely, as such an organisation could potentially become a threat to their goverment. As a "true" democracy, the asari goverment is susceptible to mass media manipulation potentially leading to "unjust" legislation that would oblige the Order to execute a "coup d'état". While this scenario is unlikely, it is enough to justify the asari government take appropriate measures to monitor Justicar activities and communications (i.e. they continually spy on the Order).

This also address the critics raised against the Justicars being a vigilante organization with no government oversight. It has no official oversight, but only exists at the sufferance of the asari goverment. Justicars, while individually powerful, are few in numbers and make no effort to hide their identity. They could be wiped out if that was what the asari government decided.

Samara probably attracted the asari government's attention as soon as she applied to join the Order and was put under surveillance as a matter of course. The SB likely pilfered this information to protect himself and his operatives in asari space from possible Justicar interference.

Concerning Samara's motivation to become a Justicar: Ever since my first play through I felt that Samara's personal feelings for her daughter were at odds with her decision to hunt her down. She obviously was a skilled warrior in her prior life, she could have hunted her down as a common vigilante or simply collaborated with authorities, so what made her chose this particularly difficult path? She knew the training had a low survival rate, so why risk dying in training and let Morinth run along on a killing spree? Why waste precious years in some warrior-monk monastery while Morinth snu-snu'es dozens of innocent victims?

I've come to the conclusion that while Samara knew she had to stop/kill Morinth, she also knew she did not have the necessary resolve to do it. The Justicar training was not to give her any special "anti-AY" combat skill; she needed the strict discipline of the Code to strengten her resolve to do what ultimately had to be done. If Morinth's Dominate power works on something as devoid of emotion as a husk, imagine how much more effective Dominate would be against someone already sympathetic to her?

By surrendering to the inflexible Code, Samara gained the inner strenght she needed to overcome her grief. An Oath is always taken to convince someone you will do as you say. In Samara's case, I think that someone is herself; by swearing the Oath of Solitude, she convinced herself that her child, Mirala, was no longer... there was only Morinth.

I think that even among Justicars, Samara may have been seen as particularly zealous in her persecution of injustice(in D&D speak, "Lawful" systematically winning over "Good"). With Morinth gone, leaving only Mirala in her heart, she may "mellow down" a bit for her remaining centuries (i.e. letting "Good" win over "Lawful" once in a while).

The glued-up mug was particularly touching, as were other sentimental objects like her wedding dress and globe (holo?) of her former bondmate...

...and yes I think she'd have been positively heavenly in those negligees

[Flamewielder]

On something unrelated, for those of you who like cosplay, this is the best N7 armor I've seen to date:

http://bioweapons.wordpress.com/

Enjoy!

[Shadedclan]

Flamewielder wrote...

On something unrelated, for those of you who like cosplay, this is the best N7 armor I've seen to date:

http://bioweapons.wordpress.com/

Enjoy!

WTF?! I want one too! Really cool. But how is this related to Samara? I'm all in with this suit. I hope someone cosplayed Samara too!

[Flamewielder]

Shadedclan wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

On something unrelated, for those of you who like cosplay, this is the best N7 armor I've seen to date:

http://bioweapons.wordpress.com/

Enjoy!

WTF?! I want one too! Really cool. But how is this related to Samara? I'm all in with this suit. I hope someone cosplayed Samara too!

Actually, it's as much cosplay as promotion, as he sells costumes as a business. His initial estimate for a full N7 suit of armor was around $3000 but this was his first build so there was a fair bit of trial and error... But if you have that kind of $$$ available and a suitable occasion to cosplay, you can ask him for a quote.

[Shadedclan]

Flamewielder wrote...

Shadedclan wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

On something unrelated, for those of you who like cosplay, this is the best N7 armor I've seen to date:

http://bioweapons.wordpress.com/

Enjoy!

WTF?! I want one too! Really cool. But how is this related to Samara? I'm all in with this suit. I hope someone cosplayed Samara too!

Actually, it's as much cosplay as promotion, as he sells costumes as a business. His initial estimate for a full N7 suit of armor was around $3000 but this was his first build so there was a fair bit of trial and error... But if you have that kind of $$$ available and a suitable occasion to cosplay, you can ask him for a quote.

Damn! $3000? I could buy me a preorder of ME3 and all of it's dlc with that.

[Ashira Shepard]

Flamewielder wrote...

*big ol' snip*

...and yes I think she'd have been positively heavenly in those negligees

*plotting* :innocent:

[DOYOURLABS]

I think someone heard our cries for more conversation topics, so they threw in the negligees. BioWare knows its audience.

[DOYOURLABS]

Taken from a thread about the dossiers:
"Samara: 3 Ardat-Yakshi? Maybe she is planning to kill ALL her daughters?"
*facepalm*

Modifié par DOYOURLABS, 10 septembre 2010 - 07:54 .

[Ashira Shepard]

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Taken from a thread about the dossiers:
"Samara: 3 Ardat-Yakshi? Maybe she is planning to kill ALL her daughters?"
*facepalm*

How did they even...?

yorkj86 wrote...

I agree with you, Ashira, in agreeing with Flamewielder, who I also agree with.  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/cool.png

Was it Liquid Grape who pondered about Samara probably being more seductive and "predatory" than Mirala? In the context of her and Shepard being together of course.

I'm pondering a short, fluff-fic on Shepard's (or my Shepard anyway) reaction to seeing Samara in the aforementioned clothing.

Shep:

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:45 .

[Flamewielder]

adriano_c wrote...
So, I'm wondering...what was the necessity in the character becoming a Justicar (and the inevitable requisite seclusion, disconnect from loved ones, etc.)? Just for the training? Atonement? I mean, she could have just as easily hunted down Morinth as is, then gone back home.

I broached this question this morning a few posts back, and it is interesting to ponder it.

From Samara's comments:

• We know Justicar training has a high mortality rate. To have survived, Samara must have already been a formidable and resilient fighter even before applying to join the Order,
  
• Justicar training takes time to weed out the weak/incompetents and fortify the strong/smart in both resolve and martial prowess,
  
• Samara believes one's burdens are one's own to carry,
  
  
• The loss of her children and of any chance of a normal life as a parent grieves her profoundly
  
  
• Samara was unwilling to come and join her daughters in seclusion. Perhaps because she knew she could never leave if she did?
  
• The Oath of Solitude and the associated foresaking of family and possessions is demanded of Justicars to insure their incorruptibility and immunity to blackmail/extorsion.

As yorkj86 pointed out, yes, being a Justicar gives Samara sanction to hunt and kill Morinth and correct any injustice she can. But was sanction really necessary? Mercs operate inside Citadel space (in legitimate ventures), so do bounty hunters and their ilk... and government sanction means nothing in the Traverse or in places like Omega.

Spending years in Justicar training and risking an early death is not something Samara would have chosen lightly, I think. She's not impulsive like Jack or Grunt. She needed from the Justicars something that was essential in her hunt for Morinth; something she lacked and I think this was resolve. Resolve to kill her eldest child. Resolve she knew she lacked without the cold steel of the Code as her backbone.

By taking up the Oath of Solitude, she no longer had children. She no longer hunted Mirala, her daughter, but Morinth the serial killer. She needed that dissociation in order to shoulder the burden of the hunt, "as it should be"...

We may object to her choice. We may feel she abandonned her younger daughters to salve a misdirected sense of responsibilities. Perhaps she felt leaving her daughters in the care of people familiar with her daughter's condition was better than letting a serial killer run free... We may read this in so many different ways, it's a wonder any person can state that Samara's a boring, flat character... "paladin in space" indeed!

EDIT: Can't seem to get these lists to work properly...

Modifié par Flamewielder, 10 septembre 2010 - 09:05 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Probably because most just take her at face value and don't bother to look further.



That or they think Morinth is "cool." ¬_¬

[Flamewielder]

And yes, perhaps there also a quest for atonement in there as well. The exact circumstances of Morinth's running away are unknown:
1) the AY condition is impossible to diagnose prior to "puberty". How was Morinth first diagnosed with the AY condition? Did some some classmate die after an innocent first kiss?
2) or did Morinth actually escape the monastery post-facto, perhaps killing guard(s)/orderlie(s) in the process?
3) we know nothing of Samara's bondmate. Is she still alive? Did she blame Samara for her daughters' condition? Did she leave Samara before she took up the Oath of Solitude? Was Samara abandonned along with her AY daughters? Or did Samara's bondmate stay with her daughters to care for them?
4) Did Samara somehow tried to hide her daughters' condition, allowing Morinth to kill again? This last possibility would be a very strong reason for Samara to seek atonement for herself and not just for her daughter's actions...

Modifié par Flamewielder, 10 septembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[DOYOURLABS]

Hmm. I wonder if guards at monasteries have to keep people out, as well as in. We know there is alot of hatred towards purebloods in asari society, and that purebloods almost exclusively come from pureblood pairings, so maybe there is a radical group that wants to kill the ones in monasteries as well? I'm sure they need to keep out the loved ones too...

[Flamewielder]

DOYOURLABS wrote...
Hmm. I wonder if guards at monasteries have to keep people out, as well as in. We know there is alot of hatred prejudice towards purebloods in asari society, and that purebloods Ardat-Yakshi almost exclusively come from pureblood pairings, so maybe there is a radical group that wants to kill the ones in monasteries as well? I'm sure they need to keep out the loved ones too...

Those are pertinent questions to ask. Are these monasteries more prison or asylum? From what we see of asari society I would lean more towards asylum, where scientists and doctors would conduct research on the condition and provide psychological support/counseling to the patients and their relatives. I imagine visits would then be allowed, under supervision.