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[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...
I wonder what it says that Samara ranks higher than Jack in character-appeal.  Apart from Jack's harsh physical appearance, does Samara's harsh morality really grate people less than Jack's confrontational personality?

Or is it because players feel a lawful neutral justicar is easier to manage than a chaotic neutral rogue? As the SB points out in his assessment of Samara, her Justicar code makes her mission outcomes predictable... something that you really can't say about Jack.

I always thought Jack was the only squaddie Shepard would never let out of his sight... All the others could be trusted to behave themselves to some extent; Jack's the only one requiring guidance (along with friendship/love).

[GuardianAngel470]

yorkj86 wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
I wonder what it says that Samara ranks higher than Jack in character-appeal.  Apart from Jack's harsh physical appearance, does Samara's harsh morality really grate people less than Jack's confrontational personality?

Or is it because players feel a lawful neutral justicar is easier to manage than a chaotic neutral rogue? As the SB points out in his assessment of Samara, her Justicar code makes her mission outcomes predictable... something that you really can't say about Jack.

I always thought Jack was the only squaddie Shepard would never let out of his sight... All the others could be trusted to behave themselves to some extent; Jack's the only one requiring guidance (along with friendship/love).

That's probably right.  Jack's chaotic nature, and her power, make her a danger to the team, regardless of Shepard's alignment.  At least with Samara, the player knows where she stands.

Honestly, I think personality is more relevant. Jack, at the heart of her character, is a criminal. A smaller fanbase is going to accrue to Jack because of that aspect of her character, one that largely defines her personality.

I'm not saying Jack isn't a good character, if you take the time to listen to all her dialog she makes it plain that she can be honorable. The Space Station story is the one I am referring to.

Samara, for most people, is moral, right up front.  Yeah she is black and white and yeah she can be more harsh than many criminals, but the superficial aspect of her character, the fact that she is defined as moral, helps alleviate a lot of concerns.

With Jack you have to look closely to really get to like her as a person, but with Samara you have to look closely to find things wrong.

[7Makaveli]

That was well said, Guardian, but I think you were referring more to their convictions than their character. As a character Jack would be the unapologetic, deeply wounded, anti-authoritarian. Whereas Samara is the morally rightious, deeply wounded, traditionalist. They only really compare in the aspect of irrepairable emotional strains that haunt from the past, but even then the type of reconciliation is fundamentally different.



Wait...why are we comparing Jack and Samara again? Forget it, its way too late for me....

[HighMoon]

If there was anyone who I'd imagine Samara to disapprove of on the Normandy, it would definitely be Jack, perhaps Thane as well? (Though the two are similar in some ways, especially in their spirituality and meditations)

[Flamewielder]

Thane would likely acknowledge Samara's right and obligation to stop him (killing him if necessary) if the target was an innocent. Samara would not interfere if Thane's target was unjust. As Thane's role on the Normandy is helping stop the Collectors (and Reapers) and thus protect the innocent, Samara and Thane are probably getting along just fine.

Jack is a criminal, insofar as she is essentially an anarchist by action, if not by ideology. Laws never protected her from anything bad that's happened to her, so it's easier for her to simply believe might makes right. Depending on what tack (paragon/renegade) Shepard's relationship took in our game, Jack can either be pushed towards good or evil. A Chaotic Good character may drive a Lawful Good character up the wall (and enjoy it too:D), but that's no capital offence... A turn to evil, on the other hand...

Modifié par Flamewielder, 27 septembre 2010 - 06:17 .

[Kudara]

True Flame, and I've always imagined my Shepard someday telling Samara that Jack is the reason innocents need to be protected from the wicked. Jack is not evil, she has been systematically taught that if she doesn't do what's necessary to protect herself then she will be abused.

Modifié par Kudara, 27 septembre 2010 - 11:04 .

[Flamewielder]

Samara doesn't take objection with people, only with their actions. The Justicar do not enlighten, they just punish unjust actions... even if Samara herself found Shepard's efforts to rehabilitate Jack admirable and worthy of encouragement.

Samara may decide to walk away from the Normandy for just this reason: if she's come to believe Shepard can be a good influence on Jack and thus make her a better person, her Code would be a hindrance and source of conflict. She'd find a good reason to leave and give Jack some space, thrusting Shepard to steer Jack away from trouble.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 28 septembre 2010 - 12:12 .

[7Makaveli]

next game should have interrupts based on Paragon Stare



but that would make Samara overpowered

[ranamary]

just wanted to say hello

[Siansonea]

Hello Rana, welcome to the Samara thread.

[Pacifien]

Dear Rana, What do you think of Samara? I think she is pretty hot. Her face and eyes are striking. Love, Pacifien.

P.S. Okay, her voice also makes the character for me.
P.P.S. Her story about her daughter is also quite tragic. Her loyalty mission breaks my heart.

Modifié par Pacifien, 29 septembre 2010 - 02:27 .

[ranamary]

Siansonea II wrote...

Hello Rana, welcome to the Samara thread.

Thanks! glad to be here! I've been following it for awhile just laying low.. finding out what people are saying about me  - I mean Samara 

[adriano_c]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Jack, at the heart of her character, is a criminal.

Not really, heh.

[ranamary]

Pacifien wrote...

Dear Rana, What do you think of Samara? I think she is pretty hot. Her face and eyes are striking. Love, Pacifien.

P.S. Okay, her voice also makes the character for me.
P.P.S. Her story about her daughter is also quite tragic. Her loyalty mission breaks my heart.

I LOVE her! I think she's amazing  
The voice is pretty cool  
and the whole daughter thing breaks my heart too.. but it makes for a great story line right? 

[Siansonea]

Rana, have you played the first Mass Effect game? Also, was it disconcerting seeing your own face in a video game?



I adore Samara, the face, voice, writing, everything really came together to create something that is more than the sum of its parts. She's really a compelling character, my favorite in the game (but one could probably tell that from my avatar).

[Pacifien]

ranamary wrote...
and the whole daughter thing breaks my heart too.. but it makes for a great story line right? 

It does indeed!

It's funny, Samara says that as a Justicar she must view things in black and white. But her own view about Morinth seems to be quite grey. She knew Morinth had to be stopped, but she ends up saying Morinth's death broke her and freed her at the same time. She loved her daughter to the end, admiring Morinth for fighting against being confined for the rest of her life.

I think Samara always felt that all of Morinth's victims were Samara's fault. That her children's fate as Ardat-Yakshi was all Samara's fault. Poor Samara.

But on the a lighter note, Samara comes with Reave. What do these two topics have to do with each other? Aside from Samara, nothing. I just thought I'd add something positive about Samara after discussing her tragic story.

[Siansonea]

I don't think the situation with Morinth is so much grey as black and white at the same time. I don't think there's necessarily a contradiction in Samara's mind. One can admire the admirable qualities of a worthy adversary, without relinquishing the responsibility of defeating them. Of course, with Samara it was more than that, while she was appalled at Morinth's condition and subsequent crime spree, she could still admire her spirit and unwillingness to be caged and coddled like her two sisters.



I wonder, now that Morinth is defeated, will Samara reunite with her two living daughters?

[Pacifien]

Siansonea II wrote...
I wonder, now that Morinth is defeated, will Samara reunite with her two living daughters?

Based on the Shadow Broker's dossier for her last conversation with her daughters, I'm suspecting not. It would seem her taking the oath of a Justicar meant she had to truly give up everything she had, her possessions, her friends, her family. I imagine once one becomes a Justicar, who you were before is dead and you are expected to never go back.

I suppose someone could always break ties with the Justicars, try to return to some semblance of a normal life, but I think Samara believes in her oath so absolutely that she would not be one to turn her back on the Code.

Oh, and decided to hunt down a nice image of Samara 'cause I was all discussing her loyalty mission. So here's Samara in a peaceful frame of mind so she can unleash biotic terror:

[Flamewielder]

It seems Samara appeals to somewhat more mature audience or at least to players who have no trouble accepting that a certain nobility was required from Samara to choose this path. I don't think Samara felt guilt over Morinth's actions, so much as a parent's responsibility for her child's behavior.

I sometimes ask myself if the last couple of centuries of hunting down Morinth and witnessing the grief and sorrow that resulted from all these precious lives cut short have not helped Samara cristallize her decision. For sure, the Code was providing her a resolve she felt was necessary, but the impact of all these murders likely helped her to view Morinth as a different person from her daughter Mirala... as time passed, Mirala's qualities and goodness slowly faded while Morinth's insatiable hunger filled the empty void left behind.

In a sense, Morinth's death gave Samara's daughter back to her, to mourn as the Mirala that should have been.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:04 .

[7Makaveli]

ranamary wrote...

just wanted to say hello

Hi Rana!

I'd like to say thank you for lending your striking features to Samara

They say the eyes are the window to the soul, and when looking into Samara's soul we're supposed to see someone with more than half a millenia of shrewd combat experience, the staunch conviction to look at certain acts through an absolute filter of justice, the resolve that comes with taking a brutal path, robust wisdom, signature Asari regalness, as well as parental pride, honor, and love at bay.

Safe to say it was a tall order and you delivered with your *____* as we like to denote it

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 29 septembre 2010 - 03:48 .