13634 réponses à ce sujet

[HighMoon]

Yes and yes. Reave is very useful, but even without it she is still a stellar combatant.

[Flamewielder]

I do, mostly for role-playing reasons, with my paragon Shepard. I usually play Infiltrator, so I use her to set up my sniper shots (pull and throw work well enough for that) and to provide some stand-off suppressive fire with an assault rifle (typically the Mattock). I'll pair her off with Miranda against Collectors or Garrus against Eclipse. But since I usually do her Loyalty mission ASAP, I never wait very long for Reave...

[Kudara]

Ok lets hit them with a few logic bombs!

[Flamewielder]

Done. And while we're discussing Samara's actions and whatever the Code may be, here are my answers to the more often raised examples of Samara's "immorality":

Murder of unarmed merc in first encounter:

Merc was aiding and abaiting a known serial murderer, willingly making herself an accomplice after the fact.

Threathening to murder innocent police officers following orders:

Police officer willingly acknowledges the Justicar's superior authority yet declares she will attempt to follow her superior's orders to try and detain Samara forcefully (i.e. unlawful confinement). Samara states she will have to kill them to escape (i.e, not hunt them down and slaughter the officer doing filing downstairs).

Murdering parents of children, making oprhans out of them:

Self-defense against dominated/endoctrinated/crazed fanatics ordered by Morinth to kill her. Protecting innocent children from obviously abusive parents who sacrificed their daughters to Morinth as their "goddess". Child abuse doesn't get any worse or clearer than this.

Now I absolutely agree that ideal justice, or virtue ethics, should be tempered with mercy and at least try to enlighten our fellow human beings and redeem the remorseful criminal. And from what we can gather from the behavior of "normal" asari, that is usually what they try to do. In a sense, they are very "human".

But when your species is famous for its moral and ethical flexibility, always striving to achieve compromise if it will ensure a peaceful agreement, there is a danger that everything will become grey and you will forget what black and white ever looked like...
 
I believe Justicars (and the Code) are still tolerated by modern asari society because it feels the need to be reminded of what black and white look like, and Justicars know too well just how harsh and uncompromising white is or how dark true black can be.

Humanity has chosen to use moral tales and fables to illustrate what they think black and white should be. Judging by the immense popularity of philosophy and ethics classes in our western school systems (hint of sarcasm here), I think Humanity feels quite comfortable in tones of grey and doesn't want to be reminded what black and white look like. The asari apparently do. Does that make them superior? Likely not: they still have criminals too. But some of them actually get more punishment than a few decades in jail for murder...

Modifié par Flamewielder, 11 octobre 2010 - 01:05 .

[Kudara]

Nice post Flamewielder.



Also, I happened to be writing on my story today when something popped into my mind.



What if one of the reason's Samara refuses to be in a relationship with anyone (besides the reasons we have covered already) is out of a sense of solidarity/guilt because her daughters cannot.

[7Makaveli]

Kudara wrote...

Nice post Flamewielder.

Also, I happened to be writing on my story today when something popped into my mind.

What if one of the reason's Samara refuses to be in a relationship with anyone (besides the reasons we have covered already) is out of a sense of solidarity/guilt because her daughters cannot.

I'm surprised that line of reasoning has never come up in this thread, thanks for bringing it to our attention. It does seem consistent of Samara to adopt this kind of refrain from romance from not only a practical side, but an emotional one stemming from the sympathy she has for daughter's condition. Maybe Mirala's running away stemmed directly from her desire to actually have a partner, and being in a monastery wouldn't allow that so she chose to have neither. That could be partly why Samara chooses to be in a state without kin and companion, as if it is a way to mourn the life her daughters could never have, and how her eldest and bravest daughter initially fought for until she descended into...Morinth.

[firest0rm]

Hello, been mulling over a possible scenario for ME3 in my head for last few days figured id share: Say for whatever plot convenient reason Shepard and company are near thessia or wherever it is Samara's other daughters call home. Do you think Samara would ask Shepard (or vice versa) to see/talk to them one more time? i know its probably unlikely Samara would forgo/overcome her sense of guilt and duty regarding her daughters and the justicar code but that said i can definitely see a scenario similar to the end of miranda's loyalty mission were Shepard has a chance to convince Samara to talk to and reconcile with her children.

perhaps something along these lines. ( i apologize in advance for inconsistencies, messing up the character, etc im not a particularly good writer =P )

Shep: Samara, these are dark and uncertain times. For all the optimism i have you and i both know that in reality there very well may be no tomorrow and that the reapers cycle could continue. to be honest the way i see it one way or the other the galaxy is going to be a drastically different place in the foreseeable future: either we fail and suffer the same fate as the protheans or we succeed and write a new unprecedented chapter in the book of galactic civilization. what im getting at is that it would not be a miscarriage of justice or betrayal of your beliefs to give yourself a chance to reconcile with your children and tell them how much you love them especially considering this could be the last opportunity you have.

Samara: Shepard i understand what you are saying goddess knows i have had similar thoughts but you must understand it is not purely out of duty that i cannot allow myself to be by their side. Suppose i should accept the chance and embrace my children once more. Can you image how difficult it would be for me to leave their sides once more? Shepard please understand it its not that i do not love them or feel that the code is absolute in this regard. it would simply be impossibly difficult and distracting to keep focused on the mission were i to see them again.

Shep: i understand the fear but what about your daughters? don't you think you at least owe them this much? im sorry if this comes out condescending or insensitive but after all this time, after the way things played out, considering how scared they must be doesn't clinging to code and allowing your own personal fears to keep yourself from their side seem...selfish?

Samara:....you may be right Shepard all of these years i have told myself i am doing this for them, as penance for the fate i have thrust upon them. I accepted that as i deprived them of a future and forced them into a life of isolation that i was not fit or worthy of their love. i looked at the situation from my perspective, i assuming i knew what they deserved...with your perspective i relize how wrong i may have been...thank you shepard i may not know how things will turn out but you are right my daughters at least deserve to see their mother in these darkest hours.

Modifié par firest0rm, 12 octobre 2010 - 01:15 .

[Tiercel24]

Throwin a heads up to all the soundtrack lovers out there. Another complimentary soundtrack is out to those who didn't know. Its on iTunes and Amazon. Mass Effect 2: Combat

Has one of the Samara tracks I've been waiting for since I saw her character vid before ME2 even came out Mother vs. Daughter. Awesome track. Oh and of course The Long Walk with Samara holding up the barrier.

Modifié par Tiercel24, 12 octobre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...
Here's a topic about the Justicar Code, and the Justicars.

Mmm... I guess it was my turn to kill a thread, york... Maybe that's what hampers Samara in terms of character popularity: her appearance intrigues but then her behavior challenges the player's notions of right/wrong like an ethics class.

From a tactical standpoint, players find her starting powers of Pull/Throw kinda meh, even if Reave more than makes up for it later on.

From a lone Justicar's perspective, pull and throw are actually useful powers to have in terms of "crowd-control": "pull" them to you to interrogate, "throw" them aside of they're in your way. But as a team squaddie, one or the other would have been sufficient to pop enemies out of cover or set up a warp detonation (paired off with Miri or Thane).

What minor power would you have switched for Samara, that would have made sense from a Justicar's perspective or role-play (i.e. don't worry about duplicating another character's power)? And from a squaddie perspective?

[Flamewielder]

Tiercel24 wrote...
Throwin a heads up to all the soundtrack lovers out there. Another complimentary soundtrack is out to those who didn't know. Its on iTunes and Amazon. Mass Effect 2: Combat
Has one of the Samara tracks I've been waiting for since I saw her character vid before ME2 even came out Mother vs. Daughter. Awesome track. Oh and of course The Long Walk with Samara holding up the barrier.

Travelling to the US next week and planning on downloading the tracks then. Can't buy them in Canada yet (from Amazon, I don't care much for ITune). The Long Walk has definitely become an iconic Samara track for me...

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

yorkj86 wrote...

Samara needed Singularity and Warp instead of Pull and Throw.  Singularity to show that no one can escape from the Law (and the Justicars), and Warp as a "smite" ability, because what is a Paladin-like character without the ability to smite?

Wouldn't warp conflict with reave? They share the same role basicly.

But I really hope all squadmates have more powers in ME3. Because as it is now, the 3 power limit doesn't do justice to how powerful Samara really should be.

[Therion942]

yorkj86 wrote...

See my edit.  If not Warp, then Barrier, maybe.

No offense to any of my fellow Liarafans, but, Liara should not be more powerful than Samara.   I suspect that the only reason Liara had such a superb collection of powers was because we wouldn't be able to keep her as a squadmate.

I think it's more of a case of "Biotics based classes should not have pared down skillsets - rather they should be able to assign power to certain skills"
But you are right, biotic frickin' tornadoes aside, Liara shouldn't be more powerful than Samara. I don't see Samara having Barrier though, while she is an excellent choice for the Long Walk I envisioned her as more of an assault based biotic with standard defenses.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

yorkj86 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Samara needed Singularity and Warp instead of Pull and Throw.  Singularity to show that no one can escape from the Law (and the Justicars), and Warp as a "smite" ability, because what is a Paladin-like character without the ability to smite?

Wouldn't warp conflict with reave? They share the same role basicly.

But I really hope all squadmates have more powers in ME3. Because as it is now, the 3 power limit doesn't do justice to how powerful Samara really should be.

See my edit.  If not Warp, then Barrier, maybe.

No offense to any of my fellow Liarafans, but, Liara should not be more powerful than Samara.   I suspect that the only reason Liara had such a superb collection of powers was because we wouldn't be able to keep her as a squadmate.

None taken.

And I agree, Samara should be a better biotic AND marksman than Liara. If they both are in ME3 as squadmembers (even if just momentarily).

Perhaps Samara should focus more on biotic that have direct effects (like warp, barrier) along with better weapon training? Making her role as a offensive biotic powerhouse. While Liara can focus more on crowd control and have a tech ability or two to compensate (like she did in ME1)?

"EDIT"

Here's an idea for Samara's skill tree in ME3.

Pull
singularity
Barrier
Warp
Justicar training (class skill)
Reave

Modifié par Lizardviking, 12 octobre 2010 - 05:26 .

[Flamewielder]

firest0rm wrote...
Hello, been mulling over a possible scenario for ME3 in my head for last few days figured id share: Say for whatever plot convenient reason Shepard and company are near thessia or wherever it is Samara's other daughters call home. Do you think Samara would ask Shepard (or vice versa) to see/talk to them one more time? i know its probably unlikely Samara would forgo/overcome her sense of guilt and duty regarding her daughters and the justicar code but that said i can definitely see a scenario similar to the end of miranda's loyalty mission were Shepard has a chance to convince Samara to talk to and reconcile with her children.

I believe Samara will not go and visit in person. She would never have the strength to leave and that would break her... Samara now mourns Mirala, the daughter that could have been. She took the Oath of Solitude and broke her remaining daughters' hearts.

But I believe paragon Shepard would visit, assuming she/he was allowed by asari medical authorities. As a messenger from the daughters lost mother. They would be told a tale of Morinth and Samara, with the compassion that Samara can no longer afford to show, assuming they'd care to listen. The A-Y suffer from their inability to meld, which causes them to feel less empathy than "normal" asari towards other sapient beings. Will they care anymore for their long gone sibling and mother? Or will they have made their peace with their loss centuries ago?

[Flamewielder]

Lizardviking wrote...
Here's an idea for Samara's skill tree in ME3.

Pull
singularity
Barrier
Warp
Justicar training (class skill)
Reave

From a character perspective, it always felt like Reave should have been Morinth's power, because of it's "vampiric" character. But Barrier (as a Loyalty power) would definitely have been great as for a pala... er... Justicar. Plus it would have toned down the "boobs in space critics"...

So here's my suggestion for ME3 Samara, from a mostly role-playing perspective.

Throw
Singularity
Warp
Justicar Training (class skill)
Barrier (loyalty power)

I'd be nice if some of the powers were buffed or nerfed depending on individual biotic ability (i.e. Liara/Samara), with Samara's Warp having a base damage slightly higher than Miranada's, for instance. Or Barriers slightly more resilient than Jacob's, etc... Liara's Singularity might last longer than Samara, or her cooling time be slightly shorter, perhaps because Liara has more familiarity with that particular power, etc... Not so much for tactical reasons as character consistency with the ME lore.

Assault Rifles and SMG was a decent combination, giving flexibility in terms of range and rate of fire. She's definitely not someone you'd take on a mission against lots of synthetics... although SMG's work well enough against shields, I suppose...

Samara works well with Infiltrators and Engineers, who make up for her weakness against shields/synthetics. And Infiltrators work best from a distance, so they require a fair bit of tactical planning on higher difficulties; a fighting style popular among asari warriors and one Samara would be most comfortable with.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 12 octobre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

To bring a silly question to the table:

If you had to have Shepard show a human movie from 12/10 2010 or older to Samara, what movie would it be?

I can come up with a few movies for some of the squadmates, but not Samara.

[Captain Iglo]

Lizardviking wrote...

To bring a silly question to the table:

If you had to have Shepard show a human movie from 12/10 2010 or older to Samara, what movie would it be?

I can come up with a few movies for some of the squadmates, but not Samara.

Haha I thought about the same thing...and Samara is exactly the character where I struggled to think of something...but I'm sure she would like documentations...
However she might like movies where a person takes the law into his on hands...Taken with Liam Neeson for example.

Modifié par Captain Iglo, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:21 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Captain Iglo wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

To bring a silly question to the table:

If you had to have Shepard show a human movie from 12/10 2010 or older to Samara, what movie would it be?

I can come up with a few movies for some of the squadmates, but not Samara.

Haha I thought about the same thing...and Samara is exactly the character where I struggled to think of something...but I'm sure she would like documentations...
However she might like movies where a person takes the law into his on hands...Taken with Liam Neeson for example.

That's a good suggestion. But I always imagine her seeing some movies that are more philosophical and have some deeper meaning to them. 

But since i'm not much of a movie person I can't come up with anything.