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[7Makaveli]

yorkj86 wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...

I think the Asari acknowledgement of Justicars is both cultural and legal, otherwise there would be frequent clashes between The Order and society knowing the rigorous schedule Justicars keep. The "Justicar Laws" might be as old as the Order itself, and so is probably not referenced too frequently given the scarcity of Justicars, but I would think that it does exist because of how comprehensive Asari rule seems to be.

Yes, Samara is invoking extreme Asari values upon the open galaxy, but we see that she does so as carefully and flexibly as possible given the rigidity of the Code. She also knows that the quarry she seeks as an Asari problem that has been unleashed to a galaxy unprepared and uneducated about it, so its understandable that an equal force seek it out. There is also the personal, emotional aspect of why she does it, which has been covered extensively in the thread.

I don't see how that implies that the Justicars are at all attached to the asari legal system, though.  Justicars have rules all their own, and the Oaths of Subsumation seem to be self-imposed, instead of imposed upon them by asari society.  This is done to either keep themselves on good terms with asari society, or to curb any threat their own members pose to asari society, such as the ability to overthrow government, which is prevented, by an Oath.  That Justicars can act as traveling judges/mediators who can pass judgment on legal matters by the tenets of the Code, also doesn't mean that they are attached to the asari legal system.

Well if the argument was more based on whether the actual evidence of the alignment exists in game, then that's a pretty conservative and solid argument, and I'll concede that fact along with the many other holes the game has left us to fill ourselves. That's too easy, and I think we can infer that there is an alignment, especially in the sense that there are built in cooperative methods from before that allow for the Order to coincide with societal Law. I look at the Oaths of Subsumation as proof that the Asari saw the Code as a rule based punishment/protection system that can operate under any kind of governmentally imposed Law there could be. There is no surefire way to guarantee a conservative system like this won't crumble under the weight of the progression of cultural values, so that is why those Oaths are there to allow for some cohesion when need be in return for them having all the power and authority they have regularly. So if such an ancient Code written by Asari can have this kind of foresight to include such a modularity in their system, I think that future/present Asari could easily have the resolve to keep a sense of acknowledgement of their core traditions in a legislative branch as their values evolve over time.

But again, there is no way to really know

[Ashira Shepard]

yorkj86 wrote...

Ashira...did you finish that Halloween quickfic, or are you not sharing it?

I haven't finished it :<

I mentioned before that I didn't know what to do with it other than knowing what the crew would be dressed as. When I said that I assumed someone might suggest an idea to help me XD

[firest0rm]

in the spirit of helping ashira here are a few ideas of what the good folks of the normandy could dress up as.



Tali: not a whole lot of options but there could always use Darth Vader =P



Samara: one of the things i though that at least visually would fit samara was those gigantic dresses the wealthy/royalty wore in the 17/18th century or whenever. (though i doubt it would sit particularly well with her personality)



Grunt: i actually think it would be quite hysterical and fitting to see him in a old school football uniform



Thane: Frankenstein?



Legion: i really have no idea for him maybe a Christmas tree lol?



Kasumi: phantom of the opera? cat woman? again not particularly sure what would work for her

[Ashira Shepard]

York, that's perfect, and closely along the lines of what I wanted really! Thank you



Thank you Firestorm, but I know what the crew will dress as :3 thank you again ^^

[Ashira Shepard]

As its still fresh in my mind, [spoilers for Modern Warfare 2 ahead] if Shepard were betrayed like this by the alliance or council in some fashion, I can imagine the squad bringing down almighty hell on the ones who did it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AshiraShepard wrote...

As its still fresh in my mind, [spoilers for Modern Warfare 2 ahead] if Shepard were betrayed like this by the alliance or council in some fashion, I can imagine the squad bringing down almighty hell on the ones who did it.

As much as I laughed at COD:MW2's story, I loved that moment. Still didn't beat the nuke scene though.

"EDIT" 

Since it's the Samara thread i have to post something related so....... Have Samara be the squadmate caught along in the betrayel?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 10 novembre 2010 - 09:16 .

[Ashira Shepard]

That was almost in my head actually, since in that scene its two of them that are betrayed. And yes, the story was a BIT unbelievable upon reflection, I deliberately didn't pay too close attention while playing it. But that moment was powerful, the music certainly helped and the fact that when Sheperd sets them on fire, you can still move the camera, so Roach was still alive, or at least aware when he and Ghost started to burn.



*ahem* But Samara related, it's more of a what if? Shepard was betrayed, and if Samara was caught along side the Commander in such a betrayal? I'm not sure what would happen in that regard.



But other than unquestionable retribution, if Samara wasn't caught in it, how would she react do you think? Other than the obvious.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

yorkj86 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Since it's the Samara thread i have to post something related so....... Have Samara be the squadmate caught along in the betrayel?

What? 

In the video showed a certain member of the player character's team drags the character towards safety. Only to also be shot.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

AshiraShepard wrote...

That was almost in my head actually, since in that scene its two of them that are betrayed. And yes, the story was a BIT unbelievable upon reflection, I deliberately didn't pay too close attention while playing it. But that moment was powerful, the music certainly helped and the fact that when Sheperd sets them on fire, you can still move the camera, so Roach was still alive, or at least aware when he and Ghost started to burn.

*ahem* But Samara related, it's more of a what if? Shepard was betrayed, and if Samara was caught along side the Commander in such a betrayal? I'm not sure what would happen in that regard.

But other than unquestionable retribution, if Samara wasn't caught in it, how would she react do you think? Other than the obvious.

Wouldn't the asari goverment remove her status as a justicar (they got the power to do that right?) if she tried to extract revenge on those that betrayed Shepard? I assume this becaus I would most likely imagine that it would be a combined effort from the council races to take Shepard out, so the asari goverment would be involved.

Either that or some alliance black-ops.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Would seem strange that a order like the Justicars don't have any link to the goverment.

But then again. Alot of things about the justicars makes me go .

[firest0rm]

AshiraShepard wrote...

York, that's perfect, and closely along the lines of what I wanted really! Thank you

Thank you Firestorm, but I know what the crew will dress as :3 thank you again ^^

ah, see i that now. Sorry misread you post, was in a hurry to get out the door at the time =/

At anyrate though im looking forward to what you come up with

Modifié par firest0rm, 10 novembre 2010 - 10:24 .

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...
The Justicar Order might even predate some of the asari city-states.  it likely predates human civilization.
One Oath of Subsumation is that the Justicars won't overthrow government.  That doesn't necessarily mean that the Oath was created in agreement with asari government, though.  To keep the peace, the Order could have created that Oath in order to ease the tension between their numbers and the rest of asari civilization.

On the topic of wether the Justicar Order is par and parcel of the asari legal system, I would tend towards them not being part of it. On the other hand, for a police officer to acklowledge the judgement of a justicar and abide by it, some legal provision MUST be worked into asari law, otherwise the officer would be in trouble himself.

[Kudara]

That's what I was thinking Flame, for the detective to accept Samara's word that Shepard's evidence is legal that means that decision (the one to accept the Justicar's judgement) has to also be accepted by the asari legal system. That certainly implies that there is some type of legal recognition of the Order.

[Ashira Shepard]

I was more curious on how you guys think Samara would react personally to Shepard being betrayed in the manner that video shows.

Think paragon/paragade Shepard.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 11 novembre 2010 - 01:24 .

[Errationatus]

Perhaps because of the training involved, what they have to give up to become one, it might be more accurate to compare them with a Judge Dredd kind of law enforcement - they are both police and judges, and may have special provisions within asari law to do what they must. 

As Samara said,  "if a Justicar is involved, any peaceful solution is long passed."

It's not impossible.

[Ashira Shepard]

I don't know, I hadn't thought of it. It's just that the scene isn't leaving my head and its bothering me, so I'm trying to get it out somehow.



Maybe the council has a brush with Reaper tech and gets indoctrinated without anyone knowing, or the alliance thinks Shepard is a danger to humanity (more likely in my head)



In the case of Samara being present, for some reason I see her in Roach's POV.



If she wasn't present, and instead it's someone like Garrus with Shepard, then they might find out too late what's going on when the Alliance/Council tries to wipe the rest of the squad out as well. I think it would be obvious Shepard and whoever was with the commander are dead when they hear not a peep after their too-late warning.