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[Flamewielder]

The answer to many of these questions depends on what the Code would say regarding the justicar's relationship to legitimate asari government and, ultimately, Council authority.

The existence of the Third Oath of Subsumation suggests that the Justicars bow to legitimate authority in such matters as war, military decisions, or wether/when a foetus should be considered a person or not. Not knowing what the asari concensus on abortion is, it is hard to judge what side of the debate Justicars would support. In the case of war, non-interference is the most likely position for them to adopt, while doing their best to protect the innocents from looters, assisting local law-enforcement and civil services as needed, etc...

Samara has something to say about re-writing the Geth: brainwashing the Geth is the same as killing them; which suggests that Justicars (or at least Samara) views a person's mind as part and parcel of her being. It also suggest that psychological torture is clearly viewed the same way as physical torture: unjust. But the Council species are technically at WAR with the Geth (Heretics). Deaths are unavoidable in war, that doesn't make all members of a nation's military into "unjust" murderers...

Even if war casualties are considered outside of a Justicar's purview, would Samara agree that re-writing/killing the Heretics serves the long-term welfare of both "orthodox" Geths and organics? Probably. Would she consider the re-writing a more "humane" option than simply destroying them? Possibly not.

Salarians are different: they are pragmatic without being ruthless. Genophage was developped as a deterrent, intended to threaten the Krogan leaders into a more reasonable attitude. Salarians WILL attack first without bothering with sillyness like a "war declaration", but they will have done everything beforehand to prevent this war (and potentially millions of casualties) through sabotage, assassination, subversion, etc...

The Turians deployed the Genophage. THEY can be ruthless... and perhaps understood the Krogans better than the Salarians did. The Turians condemned the Krogans to their current state, believing it was safer to rely on the genophage itself rather than the simple deterrence of its existence. Assuming the Salarian Councillor opposed the deployment, the Asari Councillor had to agree with the Turians for the Genophage to be deployed. Was the Asari Councillor excuted by a Justicar for this? I doubt it...

So... as Samara apparently demonstrates to a "friendly renegade" Shep (I've never seen it myself, so this is just hearsay on my part), her personnal feelings and opinions sometimes contradict her duty. She may personally deplore the Genophage but may be bound by the Oaths to aknowledge the Council's decision as legitimate.
 

[GuardianAngel470]

Flamewielder wrote...

The answer to many of these questions depends on what the Code would say regarding the justicar's relationship to legitimate asari government and, ultimately, Council authority.

The existence of the Third Oath of Subsumation suggests that the Justicars bow to legitimate authority in such matters as war, military decisions, or wether/when a foetus should be considered a person or not. Not knowing what the asari concensus on abortion is, it is hard to judge what side of the debate Justicars would support. In the case of war, non-interference is the most likely position for them to adopt, while doing their best to protect the innocents from looters, assisting local law-enforcement and civil services as needed, etc...

Samara has something to say about re-writing the Geth: brainwashing the Geth is the same as killing them; which suggests that Justicars (or at least Samara) views a person's mind as part and parcel of her being. It also suggest that psychological torture is clearly viewed the same way as physical torture: unjust. But the Council species are technically at WAR with the Geth (Heretics). Deaths are unavoidable in war, that doesn't make all members of a nation's military into "unjust" murderers...

Even if war casualties are considered outside of a Justicar's purview, would Samara agree that re-writing/killing the Heretics serves the long-term welfare of both "orthodox" Geths and organics? Probably. Would she consider the re-writing a more "humane" option than simply destroying them? Possibly not.

Salarians are different: they are pragmatic without being ruthless. Genophage was developped as a deterrent, intended to threaten the Krogan leaders into a more reasonable attitude. Salarians WILL attack first without bothering with sillyness like a "war declaration", but they will have done everything beforehand to prevent this war (and potentially millions of casualties) through sabotage, assassination, subversion, etc...

The Turians deployed the Genophage. THEY can be ruthless... and perhaps understood the Krogans better than the Salarians did. The Turians condemned the Krogans to their current state, believing it was safer to rely on the genophage itself rather than the simple deterrence of its existence. Assuming the Salarian Councillor opposed the deployment, the Asari Councillor had to agree with the Turians for the Genophage to be deployed. Was the Asari Councillor excuted by a Justicar for this? I doubt it...

So... as Samara apparently demonstrates to a "friendly renegade" Shep (I've never seen it myself, so this is just hearsay on my part), her personnal feelings and opinions sometimes contradict her duty. She may personally deplore the Genophage but may be bound by the Oaths to aknowledge the Council's decision as legitimate.
 

I agree and thank you for reaffirming my belief that Samara wouldn't object to my decision in my fan fiction. It helps to know that my favorite LI candidate wouldn't want to kill me.

[SlottsMachine]

Flamewielder you made a lot of good points, I agree that Justicars would likely defer to Council Authority in some situations, and that in times of war they would likely adopt a policy of non-interference, but we are no further along in knowing what choice she would make in are shoes.

My beef was that Samara's opinion of you was tied to your renegade meter, but the choices that define someone as a renegade are kinda complicated, and a small renegade act(not sure if you even get renegade points for it), like letting that salarian die during Thane's recruitment, when Samara knows damn well that you've got plenty of medi-gel means nothing.

[Flamewielder]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

Flamewielder you made a lot of good points, I agree that Justicars would likely defer to Council Authority in some situations, and that in times of war they would likely adopt a policy of non-interference, but we are no further along in knowing what choice she would make in are shoes.
My beef was that Samara's opinion of you was tied to your renegade meter, but the choices that define someone as a renegade are kinda complicated, and a small renegade act(not sure if you even get renegade points for it), like letting that salarian die during Thane's recruitment, when Samara knows damn well that you've got plenty of medi-gel means nothing.

I agree: while your paragon/renegade meter should reflect in general people's attitude towards Shepard (i.e. it's a reflection of Shepard's reputation among those who don't know him personally), your squaddie's attitude towards Shep should be based on more specific decisions and not merely your paragon/renegade meter.

This being said, not everyone is as "absolute" as Samara in her attitude. Normal people might frown on you letting the salarian die, or perhaps (if the action is an interrupt) assume you didn't realise you could do something or react fast enough. Samara's stern outlook is more demanding of her companions.

[Flamewielder]

3days is too long... bump for the love!

[Ashira Shepard]

I would bump...but I got nothin' D:



I think my motivation for writing ME stories has run out for the time being.



Samara's behaviour towards a small lost child. Discuss.

[Xilizhra]

I imagine it'd be the same as whatever the nicest sequence of options is when you find the small lost child in Lothering in DA: O.

[Mr.Vakarian666]

Xilizhra wrote...

I imagine it'd be the same as whatever the nicest sequence of options is when you find the small lost child in Lothering in DA: O.

She'd probably then instruct the young child on the value of self defense, then distribute the coin she took from the plunderers outside the city to the public.

[Flamewielder]

I think Samara's demonstarted a certain compassion whenever the Code allowed her to do so. Protecting the innocent would require her to assist the child and make sure suitable care was made available for her (such as the priests in Lothering's chantry who are helping out the refugees).

If you're referring to wether or not Samara would keep the whole truth from the child in order to get her to seek and accept the Chantry's help, I think she would, in the interest of protecting an innocent life. I don't think she would lie to the child... but telling her the whole truth wouldn't be helpful either. I think that Samara, having been a mother herself, would know how to handle a young child.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 23 janvier 2011 - 07:14 .

[adriano_c]

AshiraShepard wrote...

I would bump...but I got nothin' D:

I think my motivation for writing ME stories has run out for the time being.

Samara's behaviour towards a small lost child. Discuss.

I was actually writing an "out of character" piece involving Samara as a hardboiled detective. And this is coming from someone who actively avoids fan fiction, lol... Talk about boredom and time to kill!

As for the lost child thing?

Probably a stern warning of the dangers of wandering around by one's self, followed by a depositing at the local authority.

[Ashira Shepard]

Hrm, how do you guys think Samara would handle the situation in Nature of the Beast, with the werewolves, Witherfang and such?

[CroGamer002]

^She would killed both werewolves and Keeper.

[Ashira Shepard]

I'm terrible...I always side with the Werewolves against the Elves. >.>



Killing them both would lessen their chance of winning against the Darkspawn, and thus dooming MANY more innocents to a brutal death however. She wouldn't take into consideration that hey...we kind of need an army here!



I get the feeling Fereldan would've been screwed with all the black and grey morality o_o

[Flamewielder]

AshiraShepard wrote...

Hrm, how do you guys think Samara would handle the situation in Nature of the Beast, with the werewolves, Witherfang and such?

Because Samara (and possibly the Code) judges people as individuals and not as collectives, I think she would initially agree to investigate the werewolf threat to the dalish community (protect the innocent). She'd eventually run into one of the "sentient" or speaking werewolves who may/may not raise suspicions in Samara's mind regarding the true nature of this conflict.

The animalistic (mindless) werewolves cannot be reasoned with and can be treated as any dangerous animal would be. The "sentient" werewolves have the ability to choose a just path and refrain from attacking the elves. If they won't, then Samara will kill them. If they manage to explain the root cause of the conflict and refrain from attacking, Samara will ask the Dalish Keeper to break the curse and resolve the conflict. If he cannot be convinved, he'll simply be killed for having caused this conflict in the first place.

The werewolves/humans cannot be held guilty for the rape and subsequent murder of the Keeper's spouse and child, as these crimes were commited by a previous generation.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 25 janvier 2011 - 08:50 .

[7Makaveli]

oh hai samara thread





artist

^^ interesting interpretation





artist

^^ interesting interpretation....





artist

^^ interesting inter- I-I mean...whah?

[Flamewielder]

Can't say I'm impressed with #1 and #3... too much gratuitous boobage in #1 and waaaayyyyy too much groping going on in #3...

BUT

I LOVE #2 because it would be just the kind of stuff I'd like to see in a post-mission cut-scene for a Samara "romance" in ME3. It's honest, life-like: two exhausted heroes catching their breath at the shuttle lifts off... not some cheap "sex scene" crap.

What would be nice to see in pre-mission/post-mission cut-scenes is one or two unselected squaddies staying behind in the shuttle to guard it and possibly provide suppressive fire in a "hot" landing zone. A soldier-type like Garrus, Zaeed or Ashley would look suitably professionnal about it too...

Modifié par Flamewielder, 28 janvier 2011 - 07:05 .

[NICKjnp]

@York: I agree completely.



Those photos seem very out of character for her. The top one doesn't look like Samara and the neckline is way too low.

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...
Why would Samara be hanging on Shepard like she's some love-sick schoolgirl <_<

OK, it's not as good as I'd like it... or maybe she's suffering from a concussion.

What I mean is: a good Samara romance could be done through similar "post-action" cutscenes. Imagine the same scene but done in the same spirit as the Jack comic (the playful one happening in the sick bay with Jack threatening to clock out Shep after he kissed her cheek).

Take image #2 above, put Samara's hand on his shoulder instead of his waist, then you've got a suggestion of intimacy in a moment when both are likely out of breath, battered, exhausted & wrung out. You could also revert roles and have Shep leaning on Samara. And this could be done with any possible LI for that matter.

What's missing from this picture is the 3rd squaddie, who should be seen making herself useful like Joker shooting out of the airlock in the End Run. There's plenty of chopper evac scenes in movies to draw examples from.

A great mission prep scene would be Shep double checking the seals on Samara's armor, perhaps commenting on this ME2 death, and Samara expressing her utter confidence that Shep already did check it thoroughly TWICE before (with a hint of a smile).

[GodWood]

I stumbled across quite a good exchange between a renegade Shepard and Samara in the 'Post your own inter party banter' thread.

I recommend checking it out

[SlottsMachine]

yorkj86 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

I stumbled across quite a good exchange between a renegade Shepard and Samara in the 'Post your own inter party banter' thread.
I recommend checking it out

Strawmen, strawmen everywhere.  We now know that Dean plays a total jerk Renegade, though.

I saw this as well, I liked when Shep shows that (in Dean's opinion) Samara's a slave to the code, and then he fires her breaking her oath to Shepard. Yeah, like that would end well. There was some good stuff early on with Jack, though.  

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
I stumbled across quite a good exchange between a renegade Shepard and Samara in the 'Post your own inter party banter' thread.
I recommend checking it out

Strawmen, strawmen everywhere.  We now know that Dean plays a total jerk Renegade, though.

The stated intent of the Oaths of Subsumation is to prevent otherwise unavoidable conflict between the Justicar Order and legitimate asari governments. A workable version of the Third Oath involves an assumption of good faith on the part of Shepard that whatever action demanded is ultimately for the greater good of all (i.e. defeating the Reapers). Since Joker's murder is of no apparent benefit in defeating the Reapers, Samara could conclude that since Shepard is obviously no longer focused on the "quest", she is no longer bound by the Third Oath... It's also worth noting that Shepard states that the Normandy is run like a military operation, and therefore that Samara would expect him/her to behave like a commanding officer, and not a random killer who would ask her to murder a crewmember in an obviously trollish attempt to bait her...

"If you make me do anything extremely dishonorable, I may need to kill you when I am released from my Oath."

But in Dean's example, since the Code's aim is not enlightenment, Samara would not even have bothered preaching to Shepard in the first place... so strawman indeed.