13634 réponses à ce sujet

[Kudara]

Interesting Samara related note on the Livejournal Mass Effect Board.  luslanz was searching though some unused text and came across some unused text.

In it was a LoSB beta text that (obviously) ended up not being used.

Samara LotSB dossier entry
Asari Survey Ship Senshelis
1570 CE
Captain's
Log, Idyssia reporting. The Senshelis has finally set out. The damned
hanar didn't want to let us leave without getting a firm destination.
It's as though the concept of exploration can't make its way into their
minds.

If I'm reading the Prothean map correctly, the cache it's
highlighted is in a system between salarian and batarian territory. I've
gotten as close as I can using mass relays. We'll have to use FTL now
and burn off static charge as best we can. If there are no problems, we
can make it in around 4 years. I've got supplies for 10 years, so even
if we run into trouble, we should be okay.

The crew is nervous
but eager, a bunch of maidens ready for adventure, or at least a good
time. Had to discipline Samara for excessive rowdiness, though. She's
young, maybe too young. She might make a better commando than an
explorer, frankly. Here's hoping she gains some maturity. We'll all have
several years to get to know one another.


Salvage and Rescue Report
Hanar Ship Sholha
1630 CE
Captain's
Log, Orolt reporting. This vessel was fortunate to discover the asari
ship Senshelis, and provided support and comfort to the survivors. The
acting captain, Kimene, reported that they had been traveling using FTL
for several years, which caused damage to their vessel and required them
to land upon a world with a small pre-spaceflight civilization to
effect repairs. After remaining stranded and suffering from attacks by
the frightened natives, the surviving crew repaired the Senshelis and
lifted off for FTL travel back to known space.

The asari were
regrettably frustrated by their years of fruitless exploration, with a
maiden named Samara remarking that Captain Idyssia was unwise to travel
so far without sufficient equipment. Samara departed, noting her intent
to join a mercenary outfit, while other crewmembers accepted hospitality
before returning to asari space.


Report Summary
Barla Von, Citadel
I'm
afraid we are unable to make any concrete assessment given the limited
data at hand. It remains entirely possible that the justicar's ship made
contact with Earth while looking for Prothean artifacts. Per your
question, the storm that scattered the Spanish Armada was considered
extremely powerful for that area, given our climate data, and could
conceivably have been generated using fields from the Senshelis' drive
core. It is clear that had the storm not scattered the Spanish Armada,
the Spanish forces would have regrouped and likely seized power in
England within two years.

It remains entirely possible that the
justicar had some effect on Earth's political course, but unfortunately,
I doubt we'll ever have proof.


Excerpts from Poetic Works
William Shakespeare, Earth
~1600 CE
"Therefore my mistress' eyes are raven black,
Her eyes so suited, and they mourners seem,
At such who, not born fair, no beauty lack,
Sland'ring creation with a false esteem..."

"My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red, than her lips red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head."

"In faith I do not love thee with mine eyes,
For they in thee a thousand errors note;
But 'tis my heart that loves what they despise,
Who, in despite of view, is pleased to dote."

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Kudara wrote...

Interesting Samara related note on the Livejournal Mass Effect Board.  luslanz was searching though some unused text and came across some unused text.

In it was a LoSB beta text that (obviously) ended up not being used.

Samara LotSB dossier entry
Asari Survey Ship Senshelis
1570 CE
Captain's
Log, Idyssia reporting. The Senshelis has finally set out. The damned
hanar didn't want to let us leave without getting a firm destination.
It's as though the concept of exploration can't make its way into their
minds.

If I'm reading the Prothean map correctly, the cache it's
highlighted is in a system between salarian and batarian territory. I've
gotten as close as I can using mass relays. We'll have to use FTL now
and burn off static charge as best we can. If there are no problems, we
can make it in around 4 years. I've got supplies for 10 years, so even
if we run into trouble, we should be okay.

The crew is nervous
but eager, a bunch of maidens ready for adventure, or at least a good
time. Had to discipline Samara for excessive rowdiness, though. She's
young, maybe too young. She might make a better commando than an
explorer, frankly. Here's hoping she gains some maturity. We'll all have
several years to get to know one another.


Salvage and Rescue Report
Hanar Ship Sholha
1630 CE
Captain's
Log, Orolt reporting. This vessel was fortunate to discover the asari
ship Senshelis, and provided support and comfort to the survivors. The
acting captain, Kimene, reported that they had been traveling using FTL
for several years, which caused damage to their vessel and required them
to land upon a world with a small pre-spaceflight civilization to
effect repairs. After remaining stranded and suffering from attacks by
the frightened natives, the surviving crew repaired the Senshelis and
lifted off for FTL travel back to known space.

The asari were
regrettably frustrated by their years of fruitless exploration, with a
maiden named Samara remarking that Captain Idyssia was unwise to travel
so far without sufficient equipment. Samara departed, noting her intent
to join a mercenary outfit, while other crewmembers accepted hospitality
before returning to asari space.


Report Summary
Barla Von, Citadel
I'm
afraid we are unable to make any concrete assessment given the limited
data at hand. It remains entirely possible that the justicar's ship made
contact with Earth while looking for Prothean artifacts. Per your
question, the storm that scattered the Spanish Armada was considered
extremely powerful for that area, given our climate data, and could
conceivably have been generated using fields from the Senshelis' drive
core. It is clear that had the storm not scattered the Spanish Armada,
the Spanish forces would have regrouped and likely seized power in
England within two years.

It remains entirely possible that the
justicar had some effect on Earth's political course, but unfortunately,
I doubt we'll ever have proof.


Excerpts from Poetic Works
William Shakespeare, Earth
~1600 CE
"Therefore my mistress' eyes are raven black,
Her eyes so suited, and they mourners seem,
At such who, not born fair, no beauty lack,
Sland'ring creation with a false esteem..."

"My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red, than her lips red:
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head."

"In faith I do not love thee with mine eyes,
For they in thee a thousand errors note;
But 'tis my heart that loves what they despise,
Who, in despite of view, is pleased to dote."

Wait ..... Were Bioware thinking that Shakespeare met Asari??

And lol at the part about Samara and CO. Having influenced Earth's history. Even if  it contradicts the story.

[Flamewielder]

They likely deleted this as it would reflect badly upon the Turians for attacking a previously known pre-spaceflight species, instead of a previously unknown starfaring one...

In the interest of Renegade/Paragon balance, aliens cannot appear too "good" or too "evil", so that your moral path doesn't end up being dictated by logic alone.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Flamewielder wrote...

They likely deleted this as it would reflect badly upon the Turians for attacking a previously known pre-spaceflight species, instead of a previously unknown starfaring one...
In the interest of Renegade/Paragon balance, aliens cannot appear too "good" or too "evil", so that your moral path doesn't end up being dictated by logic alone.

I think they removed it because doesn't it take waaaaaay longer than a few years to travel between clusters without the use of mass-relays? Even if you use FTL there is still a good distance between systems in space.

And it would also kinda undermine the whole "First-contact" part about first-contact war.

[Flamewielder]

Lizardviking wrote...
And it would also kinda undermine the whole "First-contact" part about first-contact war.

That's what I'm referring to. If it turned out that the Turians knew of our existence beforehand and never took preventive action to warn us against activating mass relays to unknown space, it would mean they used the whole Relay 314 incident as a pretext to screw us over... thus proving Cerberus right in pushing their humans-first/anti-human agenda.

Renegade/Paragon choices are intended to be morality based, not logic-based. If it became a question of logic, one of the poles would soon become the equivalent of moronic... It's bad enough that some Paragon choices (like the Collector Base) make little sense from a survival point of view, while some Renegade options = simply being a jerk.

Morality choices in ME1 felt more natural, with Renegade = ruthlessly practical & Paragon = taking pains to achieve goals lawfully/diplomatically. Not so much in ME2.

You can be ruthlessly pragmatic without being a gratuitously offensive moron. You can be ethical/compassionate without being a fool.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Flamewielder wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
And it would also kinda undermine the whole "First-contact" part about first-contact war.

That's what I'm referring to. If it turned out that the Turians knew of our existence beforehand and never took preventive action to warn us against activating mass relays to unknown space, it would mean they used the whole Relay 314 incident as a pretext to screw us over... thus proving Cerberus right in pushing their humans-first/anti-human agenda.

Renegade/Paragon choices are intended to be morality based, not logic-based. If it became a question of logic, one of the poles would soon become the equivalent of moronic... It's bad enough that some Paragon choices (like the Collector Base) make little sense from a survival point of view, while some Renegade options = simply being a jerk.

Morality choices in ME1 felt more natural, with Renegade = ruthlessly practical & Paragon = taking pains to achieve goals lawfully/diplomatically. Not so much in ME2.

You can be ruthlessly pragmatic without being a gratuitously offensive moron. You can be ethical/compassionate without being a fool.

I think the discussion is suited for another topic. But at any rate. I'm glad these dossiers weren't including, if only because the whole thing doesn't make alot of sense from a logistic POV.

But no matter what. The idea of Samara having dated Shakespeare did give me a small laugh.

[Kudara]

Personally I'm wondering what excessive rowdiness Samara had to be disciplined for...

[DirtyVagrant]

I hope that Appearance Pack for February has a new outfit for Samara.

[Kudara]

A new outfit for Samara, especially one which covered her cleavage, would be nice.

[Kudara]

Re York:

I was actually imagining her doing something like trying to play sky ball inboard the ship and accidentally bouncing the ball of the Captain's head...oops.

[GuardianAngel470]

Lizardviking wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
And it would also kinda undermine the whole "First-contact" part about first-contact war.

That's what I'm referring to. If it turned out that the Turians knew of our existence beforehand and never took preventive action to warn us against activating mass relays to unknown space, it would mean they used the whole Relay 314 incident as a pretext to screw us over... thus proving Cerberus right in pushing their humans-first/anti-human agenda.

Renegade/Paragon choices are intended to be morality based, not logic-based. If it became a question of logic, one of the poles would soon become the equivalent of moronic... It's bad enough that some Paragon choices (like the Collector Base) make little sense from a survival point of view, while some Renegade options = simply being a jerk.

Morality choices in ME1 felt more natural, with Renegade = ruthlessly practical & Paragon = taking pains to achieve goals lawfully/diplomatically. Not so much in ME2.

You can be ruthlessly pragmatic without being a gratuitously offensive moron. You can be ethical/compassionate without being a fool.

I think the discussion is suited for another topic. But at any rate. I'm glad these dossiers weren't including, if only because the whole thing doesn't make alot of sense from a logistic POV.

But no matter what. The idea of Samara having dated Shakespeare did give me a small laugh.

Not me man, it undermines her character for me. I hate Shakespeare. Not because I think his writing is terrible, which I do, but because I think it's dated and irrelevant.

Anyway, I do agree that it was a good thing this wasn't in the dossier but mainly because it's too coincidental. Samara's dialog already has Nihilus and the Collectors, it doesn't need another example of lazy writing, using circumstances that are beyond far fetched just so that the player can feel engaged.

[adriano_c]

DirtyVagrant wrote...

I hope that Appearance Pack for February has a new outfit for Samara.

Was one announced?

[DirtyVagrant]

Not from Bioware yet, but according to this site (which I've been told is a reliable source) lists the second Appearance Pack for a February release.

[adriano_c]

As bad as those last skins were, and discounting the fact that I've long since shelved the game, I'll probably pick up this new pack if Samara's included (which I'm skeptical of, anyway).



I'm guessing it'll be Miranda, Legion and...Tali?

[DirtyVagrant]

Yeah, I have a feeling it will be characters that are romanceable... but one can hope.

[Kudara]

yorkj86 wrote...

It's also a clear example of Shepard intending to antagonize her, and Dean being an ****. That's not to mention the whole situation reflecting negatively upon that Shepard.

Moreover he's simpy displaying a complete lack of comprehension that the only way she can be trusted with the type of authority she wields is that she is a 'slave' as he says to the Code.  Otherwise she would simply be a viligante.

Not to mention that he set up a situation, which without her Oath of Sublimation, would not have occured under the Code since Joker was not being unjust.

As far as I'm concerned you're right the situation reflects more negatively upon his Shepard than it does on Samara and relies heavily upon the viewpoint that Samara is unjust for hunting and stopping her serial killer daughter.  A viewpoint I simply do not share.

[Flamewielder]

Kudara wrote...
Not to mention that he set up a situation, which without her Oath of Subsumation, would not have occured under the Code since Joker was not being unjust.

Hence york's comment about strawmen. While Dean is sarcastic and a bit of an iconoclast at heart, he rightly points out a flaw in the writing of Samara's character, but not necessarily a flaw in the Code or the Oaths of Subsumation themselves (which were never actually written down, being just vague concepts in the mind of the writer).

What Dean does is poking fun at the writing (and possibly also deriving trolling enjoyment at riling up the more susceptible Samara fans). People who despise paladins will despise Samara for the same reasons. Nothing can be done about it; haters gonna hate, as the meme goes...

When we discuss Samara, we derive enjoyment from filling out the blanks left by the writers by using logic and our understanding of Samara's character. We know she follows a rather severe and rather inflexible Code but we also know provisions were made to prevent gross abuse (like Dean's example); not because this was written in the game or said by a character, but because it makes sense that it should be so.

Hence my quoting Samara in my previous post: nothing is said about Shepard being the only person allowed to release her from her Oath; the Oath can just as easily be terminated by circumstances (in which case Dean's Shepard would get his renegade arse Reaved all the way out to the airlock, or perhaps biotically Pushed down to the garbage disposal area via the sewage pipes in his private water cabinet... I'll let you guys pick your favorite).

Modifié par Flamewielder, 29 janvier 2011 - 06:35 .

[Kudara]

Re: Flamewielder

That's a very interesting point, and you're right it does make intrinsic sense for there to be in existance a mechanism for the Oath of Subsumation to be broken before the stated time depending on what's asked of the Justicar.

Edit: interestingly enough it would actually make Dean's story more interesting if his Shepard was Earthborn and the entire dust up more about his own abandonment issues than Samara's actual actions and the Code.

Modifié par Kudara, 29 janvier 2011 - 05:58 .

[Flamewielder]

Kudara wrote...
Re: Flamewielder
That's a very interesting point, and you're right it does make intrinsic sense for there to be in existance a mechanism for the Oath of Subsumation to be broken before the stated time depending on what's asked of the Justicar.

It's just an interpretation based on Samara's own words and the Codex entry discussing the purpose of the Oaths (plural) of Subsumation: to allow Justicars to cooperate effectively with legitimate governments, law-enforcement agencies and other legitimate non-justicar organizations that might temporarily share a common goal. It is likely that the First Oath recognizes the legitimacy of the asari democratic government itself, as an expression of the will of the asari species as a whole. A bit like, for example, US military personnel swear to uphold the ideals of the american constitution. And because such constitutional documents tend to evolve as some articles may become obsolete and new articles added to reflect the changing values of society at large, some mechanism has to be included in the Code for it to be still considered relevant by non-Justicars even after several thousand years.

We know the Third Oath is sworn to a group leader acting towards a goal desirable from the Justicar's viewpoint, but is not bound by the Code. It offers a way out for the Justicar who might be forced to object to, say, closing an airlock on an innocent (technically murder) to allow the Normandy to complete a critical task that would save thousands of individuals. Left to herself, a Justicar would likely leave the airlock open and rush to help the survivors, even if it meant she'd likely be locked out herself and die with the others. She would not actually block the airlock from automatically closing either, as it would be defeating a safety feature and risking other lives. A Justicar's life is one of utter self-sacrifice.

[ranamary]

Alright it's official - I just booked my tickets to PAX East! I'll be joining Crabcat Industries on their panel on Saturday Evening March 12th!

[Flamewielder]

Break a leg, dear! I wish I was able to attend in person... I'm looking forward to see some pictures on your FB page!

I hope you have a great time!

Modifié par Flamewielder, 29 janvier 2011 - 11:26 .

[Cypher0020]

I rarely talk to Samara outside of her recruitment/loyalty missions, but I too am fascinated by her character- its nice to see an Asari in her matron, possibly early matriarch years, and that she's a female type of space batman next to Garrus is nice



With my AdeptShep Teddy, she sees Samara as her mentor, and would love to train with Samara, and go to Thessia with her to expand her biotic poetential