13634 réponses à ce sujet

[xRAYZ0Rx]

Considering Samara is a Justicar, and Morinth is her OWN DAUGHTER. Plus the fact that she's been pursuing her for 400 years.Yeah, that's just normal child rebellion. lol.

[SlottsMachine]

it was just a theory, not a choice that a clear thinking individual would make.

plus, at that point its possible to have not talked to samara at all, so you wouldn't really know much about justicars, and such.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 08 février 2011 - 05:51 .

[xRAYZ0Rx]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

it was just a theory, not a choice that a clear thinking individual would make.

plus, at that point its possible to have not talked to samara at all, so you wouldn't really know much about justicars, and such.

Either way, Samara wins.

Samara LI: Rejected. She's still awesome.
Morinth LI: Critical Mission Failure. She's still a psycho.

[SlottsMachine]

I wasn't trying to curry favor towards Morinth, just throwing a reason out there for choosing Morinth other than for the lulz or the renegade points. Never said it would be logical.

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 08 février 2011 - 07:03 .

[Kudara]

I'll be honest, I don't get why people aren't completely put off Morinth during your conversation with her in the bar right before that. I mean serious psycho vibes from her during that entire scene.

Thats a serious question btw, I wanted to pull out a weapon and shoot Morinth then and there.  Even as a Renegade, I can't imagine making the decision to keep the person who made it clear they want to toy with their prey and then kill it over the Justicar who will at least be open and clear about when they will attack you.

Modifié par Kudara, 08 février 2011 - 11:37 .

[Flamewielder]

JD! That was JD! Welcome back!

I understand General. You're actually not the first to raise that possibility. One poster actually did just that. He'd been kinda skimming over the story and somehow got the rebellious adolescent and overbearing mother image in his/her head. Chose Morinth and was shocked. Ended up reloading a save to pick Samara...

[Flamewielder]

Well... I hate to say it but some younger gamers do have issues with their parents, making Morinth a more sympathetic figure. Call it generation gap.

Others simply have a grayer outlook on life and morality, or just get a kick out of playing a Renegade (it's a role-playing game, after all). They may be repelled by Morinth but then say "hey, this chick's badass... I want badasses on my crew, not some stuffy paladin".

And older gamers have learned to make peace with the sad fact that, in real life, you're going to do what MUST be done much, much more often that what you'd LIKE to do; hence the slight popularity bump in the older age bracket among Samara fans.

[Ashira Shepard]

Kudara wrote...

I'll be honest, I don't get why people aren't completely put off Morinth during your conversation with her in the bar right before that. I mean serious psycho vibes from her during that entire scene.

Thats a serious question btw, I wanted to pull out a weapon and shoot Morinth then and there.  Even as a Renegade, I can't imagine making the decision to keep the person who made it clear they want to toy with their prey and then kill it over the Justicar who will at least be open and clear about when they will attack you.

It's terrible that I chuckled, but that just reminded me of that comic where the artist had her Shepard shooting Morinth the very second she opened her mouth.

I'll take your review on Pariah as an epic win in that regard.

I personally agree with killing her though, even if as of now (to me) it's a cross between retribution and mercy killing. It takes a pretty f*cked up mind to be like Morinth and subsequently choose her over Samara.

Also, @Flamewielder

My siding with Samara may or may not have something to do with me feeling protective of my own mother. I love my mother and the thought of her being hurt, otherwise suffering or dead puts a chill in my blood and fire in my gut. I hate the thought.

Along the lines of morals, I've come to stalk TVTropes on a daily basis and the quote at the top of the "Anti-Hero" page caught my attention->

"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right."


Its an uncomfortable thing for most people to realise that doing the "right" thing isn't always the "nice" thing. Though the "right" is always up for debate depending on people's thoughts, then we're right back to arguing.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 08 février 2011 - 01:41 .

[Xilizhra]

I've actually fluffed an in-character way for my Shepard to choose Morinth:

She picks Morinth in the Beams o' War confrontation, but then biotically throws Samara to the side before Morinth can headsplatter her; she then Cryoblasts Samara and turns to Morinth, saying that she'll help her escape but won't kill anyone here, and that if Morinth comes with her, she'll keep her safe; if Morinth tries to escape now, though, Shepard will side with Samara in trying to kill her. It does not, alas, work, because Samara unfreezes and then throws Shepard aside; still weakened, however, Morinth kills her before Shepard can do anything about it. Shepard is quite upset about this, but decides to make the best of a bad situation and brings Morinth along anyway.

[Flamewielder]

@ Zili
Yep, that would also be consistent with what we've seen of the characters thus far.

@Ash
I know how you feel, as I'm a father of two. To be caught in Samara's position is simply horrific. Humans have fortunately nothing comparable. Serial killers are people with serious psych issues, more often than not involving an abusive childhood or no childhood at all. Few act this way out of purely physiological abnormality. Murder is inexcusable and must be prevented by all acceptable means, either confinement (and perhaps treatment/cure if possible) or death (as in death penalty).

A well cared-for and beloved child will not turn into a serial killer unless there is something seriously wrong with her from a medical standpoint. ME present us with an example of this. The available evidence shows Samara was a loving mother, with high moral standards. Her daughters were lovingly raised until they were diagnosed and the"system" took them in charge. Even then, Samara felt like trying to explain herself to her daughters before taking the Oaths, something she wouldn't have bothered doing if she'd "given up" on them. She didn't abandon them, they were taken away from her. That's just heart-wrenching.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 08 février 2011 - 07:00 .

[Xilizhra]

And then, of course, the fact that Morinth apparently missed that part and believed that Samara didn't love her at all (and perhaps never did) rather adds to the tragedy...

[Ashira Shepard]

Xilizhra wrote...

And then, of course, the fact that Morinth apparently missed that part and believed that Samara didn't love her at all (and perhaps never did) rather adds to the tragedy...

This is part of why I view it as mercy killing to 'put her down' as such. I pointed this out when writing her that her own demons, I.E her 'mother' and 'self' constantly tell her that there is no one who cares and there never was. Which is why she needs to force others to 'love' her.

Anyone listening to that for 400 years straight is likely to just break.

Though if I had voices in my head for a few months I think I'd end up running up and down the street using my shirt for a flag, yelling about cheese and pixies. I'm more of a harmless crazy

[Xilizhra]

I... don't entirely like the idea of mercy killing. If someone is comatose and no longer capable of deciding for themselves, sure, but I'd rather that people decided for themselves if they wanted to die or not.



My own Shepard would hope to show Morinth that love isn't impossible. I also wonder what she would think of Samara's SB dossier.

[Ashira Shepard]

I do agree it would be a twisted form of it since Morinth is still very much aware.



And it would be interesting, shame there's no reaction to those. But probably a good thing considering what's in some of them. Jack would flip at hers.

[Flamewielder]

Xilizhra wrote...
My own Shepard would hope to show Morinth that love isn't impossible. I also wonder what she would think of Samara's SB dossier.

The question being, would she treat it a fabrication? Deny it? Would it jar painful recollections of her childhood back to the surface?

My stepdaughters lost their father in 1997 in a car accident. They were 14 and 11 at the time. My wife tells me their recollections of their father have changed over time, as they went through the grieving stage and beyond. One still has social adaptation problems (i.e. playing WoW in her room, incapable of keeping a job or finishing school). Initially, she dealt with her grief by "forgetting" all the good her father did and only "remembering" the bad stuff; it was like her subconscious was trying to convince her that her father's death was a good thing. She eventually got out of it and started "remembering" the good, even if it was painful for her.

So yes, I suppose the SB dossier on Samara might jar Morinth somewhat. Would it be enough to offset 400 years of hedonistic murderous lifestyle? Who knows? Perhaps there's a good fanfic in there...

[Flamewielder]

AshiraShepard wrote...
Jack would flip at hers.

*pictures bulkheads being blown out in biotic rage* Ouch!

...I think my Shep would share it regardless of the risk. I'd discuss it with Samara and Liara first, to try and find out more. I didn't romance Jack, but I'm sure she'd appreciate me not holding anything from her, as the closest thing she has to a friend.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 08 février 2011 - 07:20 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Flamewielder wrote...

So yes, I suppose the SB dossier on Samara might jar Morinth somewhat. Would it be enough to offset 400 years of hedonistic murderous lifestyle? Who knows? Perhaps there's a good fanfic in there...

...

My brain is supposed to be on fantasy at the moment. Now that's in my head.

Eff.

Not that I have any thoughts on how to word that idea, hrm...*slithers off to ponder* Anyone else feel free to write about that, I'm not likely to do sci-fi for a while.

[SlottsMachine]

Does anyone think that Samara would ever operate under the principle of "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend", with the assumption that whatever threat needs to be stopped, the potential "ally" would pose less of a threat, but not by much.



And as an aside, what if there was a possibility of both enemies joining forces against her, and if this were to happen she would know her chances of survival weren't good.

[Flamewielder]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...
Does anyone think that Samara would ever operate under the principle of "the enemy of my enemy, is my friend", with the assumption that whatever threat needs to be stopped, the potential "ally" would pose less of a threat, but not by much.

And as an aside, what if there was a possibility of both enemies joining forces against her, and if this were to happen she would know her chances of survival weren't good.

The Oaths of Subsumation kinda serve this purpose... but I doubt Samara would willingly ally herself with any party that would likely attempt to subvert her service. Protect the innocent, punish the guilty... those are pretty straightforward and immediate imperatives.

Shepard: "The Collectors are abducting human colonies, I want to stop them."

Samara: "OK, a noble goal, protect/rescue a bunch of humans, punish the unjust Collectors. Of course I'll help!"

Shepard: "Join me and this bunch of serial-murderous sociopathic sexual deviants in our mission to stop the Reapers"

Samara: "Ah yes... Reapers... Perhaps after we've found more suitable allies? *reaves the murderous lot* Let's get going, I know this great human bounty hunter named Massani... A just man, as long as you pay his fee."

[Siansonea]

*spouts a bunch of forty-dollar words in an attempt to sound smart*



Howzzat JD?

[Flamewielder]

Reading through the last 20 pages or so should satisfy your appetite for intellectual stimulation, JD... Mother-Daughter relationship being a hot topic with fine contributions, IMO. Samara continues to be popular and Morinth has aquired badly needed substance and consideration. All in all, it's been great fun and we've made new friends, which is the best thing to hope for in a social network...

[xRAYZ0Rx]

Flamewielder wrote...

Reading through the last 20 pages or so should satisfy your appetite for intellectual stimulation, JD... Mother-Daughter relationship being a hot topic with fine contributions, IMO. Samara continues to be popular and Morinth has aquired badly needed substance and consideration. All in all, it's been great fun and we've made new friends, which is the best thing to hope for in a social network...

Actually, I would suggest this to everyone who hast been here for atleast the last 20 pages. Like me, I just read it all, and i'm really glad I found somewhere on the internet that actually values intelligence over ignorance. While still being able to appreciate stupid humor. lol. It's also given me alot of insight about Miss Samara herself.

[volus4life]

i don't get the point of the oath of subsumation. if she works with someone, why does she have to follow his or her moral conduct? i truly fail to see how this oath helps a justicar perform her duty.

Modifié par volus4life, 09 février 2011 - 04:19 .