Aller au contenu

Samara thread

Débuté par Guest_Nadia73_* , févr. 07 2010 01:16

  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
13634 réponses à ce sujet

#13251
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 02:23

Guest_yorkj86_*
  • Guests
Hey, Mak. Welcome back.

#13252
Ashira Shepard
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 07:15

Ashira Shepard
  • Members
  • 3 067 messages
@Mak posting and debating
Posted Image

@The news story itself.
Posted Image

#13253
Flamewielder
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 07:24

Flamewielder
  • Members
  • 1 475 messages
The purpose of a Code (of Conduct) is not spiritual enlightenment. It defines what is considered socially acceptable among a given population. That is why Officer Dara has trouble defining the Code to Shepard: it's scope encompasses all of what asari consider ethical/virtuous.

*struggling for an image* "It's our Code!"

#13254
Kudara
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 09:58

Kudara
  • Members
  • 457 messages

Flamewielder wrote...

The purpose of a Code (of Conduct) is not spiritual enlightenment. It defines what is considered socially acceptable among a given population. That is why Officer Dara has trouble defining the Code to Shepard: it's scope encompasses all of what asari consider ethical/virtuous.

*struggling for an image* "It's our Code!"


Which is exactly where I started questioning my own right to judge the Code as a person who was not a part of their society. 

"our Code" the unequovical possession of it, not the Justicar's code, but our Code.  The Asari's Code.  That's were I backed off and started asking myself what right I had to judge the asari for their beliefs concerning one of their own insitutions.

I'd get bent over them coming in and condeming our justice system which has worked fairly well for us simply because it wasn't how they did things, how can I do the same?

#13255
Flamewielder
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 10:12

Flamewielder
  • Members
  • 1 475 messages
Because the justicars are considered by asari to embody their Code, i.e. their definition of what is ethical; they are entrusted with the most difficult of decisions, the necessary execution of genetic deviants who are driven to kill by their condition in spite of themselves, etc...

And in the final analysis, humans do the same thing, even if the selection process is different and we separate enforcement from judiciary. A Supreme Court decision is final. There is no appeal. We trust in these men and women to decide wisely when we bring difficult cases to their attention..

Justicars are Supreme Justices with an assault rifle...minus the powdered wigs. ;)

#13256
Xilizhra
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 10:18

Xilizhra
  • Members
  • 30 873 messages

Justicars are Supreme Justices with an assault rifle...minus the powdered wigs. ;)

That distinction is ginormous. For one thing, I don't think the Supreme Court is generally a criminal one; it spends most of its time interpreting the Constitution, not passing judgment on criminals. And even ignoring that, there's nine of them. Justicars operate alone, serving as judge/jury/executioner all at once.

#13257
Flamewielder
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 10:49

Flamewielder
  • Members
  • 1 475 messages
So? We still entrust them with the constitutionality of the death penalty, the protection of human rights, or wether assisted suicide is murder or not... I would argue that these judgements are just as serious as any criminal case (and in the case of the death penalty issue, it is litterally a matter of life and death for thousands of convicts).

We, as humans, decided we'd separate the judiciary from law enforcement. Asari believe that, in the case of justicars, they can combine both. Why? Because they are considered to be an embodiment of their Code of Ethics, the Avatars of Justice. They can do no wrong...

We can question wether that belief is justified, of course. But that's what the lore says.

Modifié par Flamewielder, 04 mars 2011 - 10:55 .

#13258
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 04 mars 2011 - 11:04

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests
Which supreme court are we talking about in comparison here? They're varied around the world. Few nations have a constitution either.

Either way, they'll often set a precedent with their decisions, and  they'll also reverse earlier rulings(precedents) that the court has made in the past.  A Justicar wouldn't be setting any precedent with her decision, or reversing anything, unless the code itself was changed, I suppose.

At that moment in time however, whenever a Justicar is passing judgement on another, they could be considered the supreme judge, in that instance anyway.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 04 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

#13259
Flamewielder
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 12:24

Flamewielder
  • Members
  • 1 475 messages
The wig image referred to the british-style justices, but I believe most former british colonies (including the US) have a constitution as well as a supreme court ruling over cases that relate to constitutional matters.

But I was referring to the issue of trust, not the obvious separation of powers juge/executionner Justicars, unlike Justices, do not create precedent (jurisprudence). But both are entrusted with the power to spare/condemn. In both cases, if a Supreme Court decision allows the death of a person, reversing a precedent will not bring the person back.

#13260
Flamewielder
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 12:27

Flamewielder
  • Members
  • 1 475 messages
The whole point is, you'd expect both Supreme Justices an Justicars to approach any judgement with appropriate gravitas, something that was largely achieved with Samara (at least as far as her demeanor is concerned).

#13261
Rusty Pabst
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 01:52

Rusty Pabst
  • Members
  • 419 messages
Another Samara image:

Posted Image

http://masseffectscr...orites-part-10/ (Contains spoiler image from DLC misson Lair Of The Shadow Broker.)

#13262
7Makaveli
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 05:46

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages

yorkj86 wrote...

Hey, Mak. Welcome back.

JohnnyDollar wrote...

What's up Mak? That's about all I have to say. :P

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Oh, and welcome back and good to see you. ;)


Hey guys! And welcome back to you as well JD! :D



Xilizhra wrote...

I have to say that your example made
Samara look really, really bad. I'd like to think that the Code isn't
quite as moronic as what you compared it to.


Well, no they're not. In fact I think I explicitly mentioned they are not the same, but it raises the same issues with respect to how one should carry themselves once they've devoted themselves to a moral doctrine. I said what I had to say about that, so I'm not gonna regurgitate it. But yes, the code of conduct is pretty silly, surely even conservative ideals are not that narrow minded now (or aren't taken as seriously anymore)

anyway...in other more interesting news....I present to you

SPIDER SAMARA!
Posted Image
artist


and this

Posted Image
artist

what a pleasant scene. (apologies if those have already been posted)

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 05 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

#13263
7Makaveli
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 05:47

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages
double post...:(

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 05 mars 2011 - 05:48 .

#13264
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 06:01

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests
Posted Image
^General and I had a little conversation about this the other day.  Apparently some gamers don't like Samara showing disapproval of some actions/decisions made by Shepard.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 05 mars 2011 - 06:16 .

#13265
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 06:34

Guest_yorkj86_*
  • Guests
But they'll complain about there being too many (similar) characters. Why don't they like Samara showing disapproval of Shepard's actions? If it's because the Paragon/Renegade system can't handle Samara, that's a legitimate reason. If it's because they don't want Samara's opinion for character reasons, why did they ask her? She's giving you fair warning, especially after mentioning that she may pursue you, if she witnesses you doing unlawful things while she's under the Oath. But they'll still **** about that, along with Samara's ultimatum. Samara just can't win, either way. I say, forget them.

#13266
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 07:17

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests
I'm not too crazy about the fact that Samara changes her perception of Shepard if you have above  X amount of renegade points.  Not liking the paragon/renegade system, is as you said york a legitimate reason, but that's separate from the character though.  That's a mechanic, as you know, and a flawed one at that.

That might be worse than claiming that Samara is a hypocrite.  That would be like disliking the Jack or Miranda character, or the Tali or Legion character, because I didn't have the points needed to pass the persuasion check during their respective confrontations. 

There may be a better analogy, but I can't think of one off of the top of my head right now.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 05 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

#13267
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 07:27

Guest_yorkj86_*
  • Guests

7Makaveli wrote...

SPIDER SAMARA!
Posted Image
artist


This reminds me of a joke from the Spiderman comics, about Black Cat.  Mary-Jane says that Black Cat couldn't possibly be as swift and agile as she appears to be, with boobs like hers.  Peter tells Black Cat this.  She responds, by telling Peter to tell Mary-Jane that her boobs act as "ballast," and that's how it's possible.  ^_^

#13268
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 09:31

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests
Hmmm...you ever hear any of the voice over screw ups with one of your squadmates speaking a line from a different VA other than their character?  It's rare, but it happens.

I was just doing Samara's recruitment mission.  I brought Miranda and Jack with me.  After I killed Capt. Wasea and the rest of the Eclipse mercs, Miranda spoke with Capt. Wasea's VA. 

She said:  "If you're helping the justicar, your deep into something terrifying".  I don't think that I recall ever hearing Capt. Wasea say that before, let alone Miranda with her VA.  *shrugs* Weird...

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 05 mars 2011 - 09:37 .

#13269
Kudara
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 12:27

Kudara
  • Members
  • 457 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Hmmm...you ever hear any of the voice over screw ups with one of your squadmates speaking a line from a different VA other than their character?  It's rare, but it happens.

I was just doing Samara's recruitment mission.  I brought Miranda and Jack with me.  After I killed Capt. Wasea and the rest of the Eclipse mercs, Miranda spoke with Capt. Wasea's VA. 

She said:  "If you're helping the justicar, your deep into something terrifying".  I don't think that I recall ever hearing Capt. Wasea say that before, let alone Miranda with her VA.  *shrugs* Weird...


Wasea always says that to me...  how odd you haven't heard it before.

I usually go yea yea, you wet yourself over the A-Y.  Me, I'm going to kill her.

#13270
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 09:41

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Kudara wrote...
Wasea always says that to me...  how odd you haven't heard it before.

I usually go yea yea, you wet yourself over the A-Y.  Me, I'm going to kill her.

I used to have some gameplay video of that encounter, but I evidently deleted it.  I turned the music volume off just in case, and replayed it a few minutes ago.  I heard her say it this time.  Yeah, during combat I can be a little deaf to enemy chatter sometimes. 

I'm trying to get into the head of this Shepard that I'm playing right now.  This Shepard is a Renegade Infiltrator, and is the most diabolical of my Shepards. 

I haven't decided if I'm going to go with Morinth or not, just yet.  From a meta perspective, I think Shepard's alignment plays into the decision, because Samara most likely won't be of any use to you in the future(post suicide mission).  You also have to face the possibly that there could be a confrontation between the two of you in the future.  However, there is no guarantee that Morinth will be of any use to you in the future either.  Her joining the crew and assuming Samara's role, is repayment to Shepard for choosing her and helping to destroy her mother.  You also have Reave with Samara, which is greater than Dominate.  Dominate is a little disappointing.  I don't think that it lasts long enough.  It says that it last 12 seconds (enhanced), just like (improved) AI Hacking, but I don't think it lasts that long.  I haven't used it lately, and I haven't actually timed it, but when I have used it in the past, it sure hasn't seemed to last 12 seconds.   I think that from a meta perspective, your decision to go with Morinth has more to do with personal preference, or just that you want to change things up a little.

From a non-meta perspective, it doesn't seem to make much sense to bring a serial killer aboard your ship, regardless of your alignment.  Samara mentions that she may have to kill you if you make her do anything extremely dishonorable.  Her comments about things that she has seen you do(if you have above X renegade points), don't come till much later in the game.  So from a non-meta perspective, that doesn't come into play with your decision.  It's more based on the task at hand, and that is to find the Collectors and stop them.  So as a Renegade, you go with either a serial killer who poses an immediate threat to not only you, but everyone else aboard the ship, or a Justicar who may attempt to kill you, but not until the mission is over.  Fom a non-meta perspecive, I think the best choice is to go with Samara, even for a Renegade. 

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 05 mars 2011 - 09:49 .

#13271
7Makaveli
Posté 05 mars 2011 - 10:38

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages

yorkj86 wrote...

This reminds me of a joke from the Spiderman comics, about Black Cat.  Mary-Jane says that Black Cat couldn't possibly be as swift and agile as she appears to be, with boobs like hers.  Peter tells Black Cat this.  She responds, by telling Peter to tell Mary-Jane that her boobs act as "ballast," and that's how it's possible.  ^_^


This seems to fit with our speculation about the source of Samara's enhanced biotic prowess... ^_^

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 05 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

#13272
NICKjnp
Posté 06 mars 2011 - 01:25

NICKjnp
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages
@JD: You know I have a special place in my heart for Morinth. Sometimes it is fun to have a bit of a difference.

#13273
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 06 mars 2011 - 02:11

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

NICKjnp wrote...
@JD: You know I have a special place in my heart for Morinth. Sometimes it is fun to have a bit of a difference.

:D

That's what I meant when I said that I think that from a meta perspective, your decision to go with Morinth
has more to do with personal preference.  I like to change things up a little too.  From a non meta perspective, the logic behind picking Morinth really isn't there to support it, I don't think, unless that Shepard is chaotic and/or a little off kilter.   

I had a chaotic Shepard who chose Morinth, but I deleted all of my Shepards here a little while back, except for the original two that I imported from ME1.  I haven't decided whether or not to choose Morinth with this Shepard yet.

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 06 mars 2011 - 02:13 .

#13274
Biotic_Warlock
Posté 06 mars 2011 - 11:13

Biotic_Warlock
  • Members
  • 7 852 messages
I imagine Samara is such a powerful biotic since she spent most her life as a justicar (except the times as a merc...).

Some asari i think are very weak biotics as well - probably the councillor is one... i can't imagine her throwing a singularity at shepard sometime soon.

#13275
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 06 mars 2011 - 11:26

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Biotic_Warlock wrote...
I imagine Samara is such a powerful biotic since she spent most her life as a justicar (except the times as a merc...).

It's because She's got Bovine Fortitude.;)

:P

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 06 mars 2011 - 11:28 .

Retourner dans Fan Creations


  1. The BioWare Forum
  2. → Mass Effect
  3. → Mass Effect Franchise
  4. → Fan Creations