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[jamesp81]

yorkj86 wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Ugh, so tired of people thinking that being a Justicar is like being a monk, which implies religiousness. Justicars are secular enforcers of law. Would you say Judge Dredd is a monk? No? Now you know why it's silly to say Justicars are monks.

Monastic order... Warrior Monk.... terms used to describe justicars.

Also, "They're closer to a religious group than a legal branch"

A Warrior Monk doesn't necessarily have to fight for his religion.  He can fight for ideals.  A "Warrior Monk" is an estimation.  Justicars enforce the "ideals" of asari society.  Even if these "ideals" have a religious source, it doesn't mean the enforcer has to be religious.  That's like saying all policemen have to religious.

I don't see what the problem is. Samara does say 'by the goddess' (among other like phrases) which indicates that she is religious. The asari culture is largely depicted as religious. 

Atheists say "Oh my god" when they're surprised, startled, horrified, and so on.  Does that necessarily make them religious?  Tali says "Keelah," as an exclamation.  Does that necessarily make her religious?

The problem is that there's no evidence that the Justicar Order is religious.  People take the "monk" analogy and think that it makes Justicars religious.  There are secular ways of enforcing laws.  Anglophones call them "the police."

She also says "find peace in the embrace of the goddess" right before she kills someone.  I don't think that she utters that just to sound cool.  It's a very real, very strong indicator of her faith.  The Justicar Order may or may not be explicitly religious, but I think Samara is, and I suspect that's the rule and not the exception among Justicars.

[jamesp81]

yorkj86 wrote...

Could be the same thing as those movies where the character kills someone, and says "Go to Hell."  It doesn't indicate religiousness, but it does indicate finality.  If religiousness is prevalent within asari society, it would mean something to every one of them.

As you said, Samara herself being religious doesn't make the Justicars a religious Order. Someone will make that mistake, though, and we'll be back here, discussing it.

The saying just doesn't have the same "tone" as 'go to hell'.  She said it to her daughter even, before she killed her.  I doubt anyone in such a horrible situation would say the equivalent of 'go to hell' to their child just before breaking her neck.

[PMC65]

jamesp81 wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

Could be the same thing as those movies where the character kills someone, and says "Go to Hell."  It doesn't indicate religiousness, but it does indicate finality.  If religiousness is prevalent within asari society, it would mean something to every one of them.

As you said, Samara herself being religious doesn't make the Justicars a religious Order. Someone will make that mistake, though, and we'll be back here, discussing it.

The saying just doesn't have the same "tone" as 'go to hell'.  She said it to her daughter even, before she killed her.  I doubt anyone in such a horrible situation would say the equivalent of 'go to hell' to their child just before breaking her neck.

I also felt that Justicars were a religious order like Monks ... Given her loss (fate of daughters) it made more sense to me that she would look to God (Goddess) for understanding. If the game doesn't define the justicars in regards to "monk or not to monk" then in my game it is a religious order. It feels more true to me.

[PMC65]

yorkj86 wrote...

I'm sticking with Justicars as a secular Order. Samara talks a lot about Justicars, and not once does she mention any Divinely Inspiration that serves as the basis for their rules. She does mention asari society, however, and Justicars are stated to embody the ideals of asari society.

I wonder if the vagueness is intentional, on the part of the writers.

I also think people may have been misled by Bioware describing Samara as a "mystical warrior." "Mystical." That's the tricky part.

I think that Bioware leaves holes so that each of us can fill these in based on our own game play. To me, I set them as a religious order, others may make them a secular order. Whatever fits your story works. I would hate to have every part of the story laid out by Bioware. Not that it really matters, I have seen some on this forum who refuse even some of the codex and treated it as false. To each his own.

[adriano_c]

So, what's the word? Any news of a return?

[lolwut666]

Officer Dara: Ah, yes - - Samara the Justicar.



...we have dismissed that claim.

/hides

[adriano_c]

yorkj86 wrote...

Apart from it being stated that all of the ME2 squadmates will return, in some capacity (if alive), nothing specific, no.

Shame.

[SlottsMachine]

yorkj86 wrote...

Anyway, there's no Samara fanbase left here to troll.

It was a good run. 
*looks at other threads for none LI's*
Not much going on.

[CroGamer002]

According to PC Gamer there won't be new LIs in ME3.


Tom Shepard is not happy.

Modifié par Mesina2, 07 mai 2011 - 09:51 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Mesina2 wrote...
According to PC Gamer there won't be new LIs in ME3.

D'8


"Curses!"

Although! She technically counted as an LI, it says nothing about bringing back previous LI's right?

I mean she's acknowledged and everything! Okay it was just that advert on the Citadel but still! It can say "Justicar Samara" out of all the 'LIs' that Shepard might want to go out on the town with. Hrm-hrm?

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 07 mai 2011 - 12:00 .

[7Makaveli]

Well it wouldn't make any sense to have any new LI's, since writing something that jumbled up with a new character would simply disobey all kinds of rules for character development. As for Samara, I'm more concerned about her returning and playing a pivotal role than being a LI, it's at that point now. The writers wrote her as a secondary squad mate who adds lore and mystique to the ME universe along with Thane. I'm not sure if they'll have room for doing that in the next game. My ideal at this point is for her to be a mission giver, who Shepard can hold some strategic and philosophical discussions and hold hands with.

[Ashira Shepard]

I'll be happy if she just isn't handwaved away D:

[SlottsMachine]

 I'm one of those people that was bored to tears by Liara in ME1, and yes she is a walking encyclopedia but all the ME1 characters where to varying degrees and I think that was there purpose first and foremost. For me Liara never moved beyond her role as an Asari codex entry.

Samara IMO succeeds in moving past her role as a codex entry, i don't know quite how to explain it though. So the mercenary approach......

1. Samara life story = emotional rollercoaster
2. Storytime with Samara - she talks just as much about her experiences as a Justicar than she does about Justicars role in Asari society.

This may not be very detailed, so in short Samara makes me "feel" which is something Liara never managed.

And I don't believe her character suffers because of the encyclopedia aspect, if anything I think people hold the fact that she is completely unwavering in her views/beliefs against her. As far as I know there isn't a speech check opportunity at all in regards to Samara, most everyone else has one though. 

Modifié par GeneralSlotts193, 11 mai 2011 - 05:51 .

[Flamewielder]

Well Casey confirmed ALL main characters will return in ME3 (yeah, including DLC Zaeed) in appropriate cameos (a la Wrex in ME2), showing them doing their stuff in their related fields. So Samara will show up for sure. Perhaps rooting out endoctrinated Reaper agents among the asari bureaucracy?

Since they're trimming down the size of the squad, I guess it rules out Samara as a full squaddie. The possibility for temp squaddie isn't ruled out, however.

[corporal doody]

GeneralSlotts193 wrote...

 I'm one of those people that was bored to tears by Liara in ME1, and yes she is a walking encyclopedia but all the ME1 characters where to varying degrees and I think that was there purpose first and foremost. For me Liara never moved beyond her role as an Asari codex entry.

Samara IMO succeeds in moving past her role as a codex entry, i don't know quite how to explain it though. So the mercenary approach......

1. Samara life story = emotional rollercoaster
2. Storytime with Samara - she talks just as much about her experiences as a Justicar than she does about Justicars role in Asari society.

This may not be very detailed, so in short Samara makes me "feel" which is something Liara never managed.

And I don't believe her character suffers because of the encyclopedia aspect, if anything I think people hold the fact that she is completely unwavering in her views/beliefs against her. As far as I know there isn't a speech check opportunity at all in regards to Samara, most everyone else has one though. 

Samara is THE space samurai. You can plug her personality into any 1960/70 samurai flick and you wouldnt be able to tell any kind  of difference. This alone made her awesome.
She is far more mature and worldly than the young Liara...and i think Liara has difficulty in expressing herself properly.  Samara knows who she is and has made peace with it. 
For me after the Horizon mission Samara was the first to be recruited from the new batch. From then on it was her and Miranda (Especially in my insanity run). Samara is hard hitting!!
I hope we get a mission or two with her...MORE if we were paragons!
i can hope.

Modifié par corporal doody, 11 mai 2011 - 01:37 .

[DirtyVagrant]

Apparently we'll be going to Thessia in ME3 so I think it's not too out there to think we may see her there. That or Illium again. Also they'll be redesigning/updating some (all?) of the squadmates looks, so perhaps this applies to Samara also?

[Autoclave]

I am pretty sure that Samara will return in ME3 as a squad mate. Some of the reasons:
1. She is Asari, we need an asari team mate.
2. Samara > Liara.
3. Way too much work has been put into developing her character. I cannot see bioware giving up on her.