13634 réponses à ce sujet

[DirtyVagrant]

Liara, Ashley, and Kaidan could have not appeared at all. Think about how angry you'd be then...

[BlackMetal]

yorkj86 wrote...

To change the topic, who else felt disappointed at finding that the entrance to Diana's house was locked after Samara's loyalty mission? I wanted to walk in to her home to console her, only to find that the
place was locked up.  It feel completely mechanical that Nef's mother would instantly leave Omega seconds after her daughter was avenged, How the heck did the news get to her so fast?

At least the e-mail Diana sent me afterward broke my heart.

I felt the same way, it would have been nice to see Samara tell Nef's mother she killed her murderer, it would have been an extremely emotional scene for both of them.

[DirtyVagrant]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Another thing I noticed about Samara's loyalty quest, was Morinth's statements in her apartment whenever you were checking out the apartment before sitting down. Her statements are too revealing IMO. She is a predator and here she is clueing him in on what type of person she really is. It was too obvious. Sure Shep and the player know what she is, but Morinth doesn't know that. Here she is talking about how she likes to see someone right before she kills them and so on. She wasn't cautious at all in the apartment.

To be honest, Morinth was kinda of... lame. In the "hot topic-loving high school goth kid" way who never got out of that phase. At least, that's what she came across as to me.

[BlackMetal]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Another thing I noticed about Samara's loyalty quest, was Morinth's statements in her apartment whenever you were checking out the apartment before sitting down. Her statements are too revealing IMO. She is a predator and here she is clueing him in on what type of person she really is. It was too obvious. Sure Shep and the player know what she is, but Morinth doesn't know that. Here she is talking about how she likes to see someone's demeaner right before she kills them and so on. She wasn't cautious at all in the apartment.

Yeah, i felt obvious Ardak-Yakshi is obvious.

[Zulu_DFA]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Another thing I noticed about Samara's loyalty quest, was Morinth's statements in her apartment whenever you were checking out the apartment before sitting down. Her statements are too revealing IMO. She is a predator and here she is clueing him in on what type of person she really is. It was too obvious. Sure Shep and the player know what she is, but Morinth doesn't know that. Here she is talking about how she likes to see someone's demeaner right before she kills them and so on. She wasn't cautious at all in the apartment.

She's interested in individuals, who are interested in her type of asari. She knows such statments won't discourage her prey, unless it knows for sure what exactly is going to happen. Even then some dinkheads side with her and "romance" her afterwards aboard the Normandy.

Loved her chess set. For a moment I was hoping we're going to have an actual chess minigame before Samara hits. Would love to take the set as a souvenir for my Captain's Quarters.

[Kudara]

yorkj86 wrote...

Samara's strong jaw - Thing of beauty, or object of repulsion?

Thing of beauty.   It adds to her overall sternness.   It helps in generating her commanding presence.  I don't think a pronounced jaw is necessarily a masculine trait, and it's not like she doesn't have feminine features elsewhere.

Thing of beauty, it definately adds to her image and personality.  Show strenght and determination, and she has both traits in abundance.

[7Makaveli]

I remember in a conversation with Morinth you can ask her about Justicars. I presume it is one of the options that does not help you get to her apartment but has anyone ever asked that? I wonder what she says.

[Whatcote Park]

7Makaveli wrote...

I remember in a conversation with Morinth you can ask her about Justicars. I presume it is one of the options that does not help you get to her apartment but has anyone ever asked that? I wonder what she says.

I think she said something along the lines of 'Don't go there, What do you want from me?' I.e she said nothing interesting but clearly was not amused that you asked that out of the blue.
I would be freaked too, if a randomer I had met at a club suddenly asked me if I knew anything about Justicars... Although probably for different reasons.

[Kudara]

WDGrainger wrote...

Someone speculated as to the possibility of Samara bing Liara's 'father'. That raises the possibility of Liara going Ardat-Yakshi when she hits maturity. Now there's a twist.

That would mean that Samara and Benezia met 108 years ago and that Samara (knowing she already had three AY children) agreeded to be the father.  I sincerely doubt that Samara would ever do that, for one thing she was already a Justicar 108 years ago and sworn not to have children.  Two that would mean she would knowingly have another pureblood daughter to which she could pass on the AY gene.

So I'd have to say its extremely unlikely, hell the bartender is a much, much more likely canidate than Samara.

[AKFTF]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

DirtyVagrant wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Another thing I noticed about Samara's loyalty quest, was Morinth's statements in her apartment whenever you were checking out the apartment before sitting down. Her statements are too revealing IMO. She is a predator and here she is clueing him in on what type of person she really is. It was too obvious. Sure Shep and the player know what she is, but Morinth doesn't know that. Here she is talking about how she likes to see someone's demeanor right before she kills them and so on. She wasn't cautious at all in the apartment.

To be honest, Morinth was kinda of... lame. In the "hot topic-loving high school goth kid" way who never got out of that phase. At least, that's what she came across as to me.

Right, and here she is what 400yrs old?  Come on Bioware.

Perhaps is has to do with being an AY? Didn't Samara say AY cannot feel empathy for others, so she simply doesn't know how to act?

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...
Well, if Bioware is looking for another way to take a dump on poor Liara's character, they might as well keep going, amirite?
I can't stand what they did to Liara in ME2.

To temporise, I would argue that Liara's character was not elaborated much on in ME1. We DO know that she's ackward around people, she's considered a young adult among the asari, she's been alone on archeological digs and dealt with the odd bandit/pirate/slaver/wildlife with her biotics.

We know she admired her mother who, even endoctrinated, showed a very pragmatic and willfull personality (remember the way remained unimpressed by Saren's angry tantrum after Eden Prime). Liara probably has more in common with her mother than what was apparent in ME1. After all, she had limited prior contact with humans before and her ackwardness around Shepard did not allow any of the inner steel to shine through...

I think we (human players) have kind of let the curvy feminine appearance of asari mislead us as to their real personality. In a mono-gendered species, we cannot expect all asari to act "feminine". The asari no doubt have become adept at taking advantage of this popular misconception (no mind control required here...). Samara is a great reminder that asari may look feminine but behave in a "gender-neutral" or even "masculine" way.

Males look at asari and see a (pleasant-looking) female. Their common first reflex is to treat them as such. The stronger the gender bias is in the mind of the male, the more effect it will have on his attitude towards asari. In return, asari having been in contact with males from other species for centuries, have learned to adjust their attitude/posture/body language to "fit" and take advantage of this state of affairs.

Consider:
1) a tall burly human policeman/constable looks and acts like a tall burly policeman/constable.
2) an tall burly asari police officer/constable acts like a tall burly police officer/constable BUT looks like this hot blue babe to a human...

We (as humans) expect the asari to act like whatever female stereotype our culture has programmed us with. Asari have no such gender-based stereotypes. Some asari will think and act like rough sailors, soldiers, samurai, knight or any other "macho" archetype you can imagine (Matriarch Aethyta illustrates what I'm talking about, she's got a very "male" attitude towards sex, for instance; human females are not often THAT casual on that topic).

If you're a male player playing a maleShep and thought Aethyta attractive, consider for a moment that Aethyta might see herself as the "male" when she's checking out Shepard's glutes... Unsettling, isn't it? I bet it would probably spoil it for a few guys out there...

So, keeping all this in mind, I would argue that Liara's character may not have changed that much between ME1 and ME2 but that we are only discovering aspects of her personality we did not bother exploring in ME1. Her character in ME2 does appear compatible with the persona displayed in the comics, although that could be considered "meta-gaming" by some.

When I first played ME1 a couple years back, Liara struck me as an under-written character. I felt too many of her lines delved into the asari species info and not enough into herself. By contrast, Ashley talked about her family, her relationship with her dad, her shared training experience with the same drill sergeant as Shepard's, etc... Ashley is human, so the writers didn't feel like they had to describe human mating practices or other cultural trivia. It kinda gave a bit of an unfair advantage to Ashley, as a potential LI for maleShep.

I'm eager to see what direction Liara will take in ME3, now that her dialog can focus on herself instead of serving as an encyclopedia on asari customs...

[AKFTF]

Flamewielder wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Well, if Bioware is looking for another way to take a dump on poor Liara's character, they might as well keep going, amirite?
I can't stand what they did to Liara in ME2.

To temporise, I would argue that Liara's character was not elaborated much on in ME1. We DO know that she's ackward around people, she's considered a young adult among the asari, she's been alone on archeological digs and dealt with the odd bandit/pirate/slaver/wildlife with her biotics.

We know she admired her mother who, even endoctrinated, showed a very pragmatic and willfull personality (remember the way remained unimpressed by Saren's angry tantrum after Eden Prime). Liara probably has more in common with her mother than what was apparent in ME1. After all, she had limited prior contact with humans before and her ackwardness around Shepard did not allow any of the inner steel to shine through...

I think we (human players) have kind of let the curvy feminine appearance of asari mislead us as to their real personality. In a mono-gendered species, we cannot expect all asari to act "feminine". The asari no doubt have become adept at taking advantage of this popular misconception (no mind control required here...). Samara is a great reminder that asari may look feminine but behave in a "gender-neutral" or even "masculine" way.

Males look at asari and see a (pleasant-looking) female. Their common first reflex is to treat them as such. The stronger the gender bias is in the mind of the male, the more effect it will have on his attitude towards asari. In return, asari having been in contact with males from other species for centuries, have learned to adjust their attitude/posture/body language to "fit" and take advantage of this state of affairs.

Consider:
1) a tall burly human policeman/constable looks and acts like a tall burly policeman/constable.
2) an tall burly asari police officer/constable acts like a tall burly police officer/constable BUT looks like this hot blue babe to a human...

We (as humans) expect the asari to act like whatever female stereotype our culture has programmed us with. Asari have no such gender-based stereotypes. Some asari will think and act like rough sailors, soldiers, samurai, knight or any other "macho" archetype you can imagine (Matriarch Aethyta illustrates what I'm talking about, she's got a very "male" attitude towards sex, for instance; human females are not often THAT casual on that topic).

If you're a male player playing a maleShep and thought Aethyta attractive, consider for a moment that Aethyta might see herself as the "male" when she's checking out Shepard's glutes... Unsettling, isn't it? I bet it would probably spoil it for a few guys out there...

So, keeping all this in mind, I would argue that Liara's character may not have changed that much between ME1 and ME2 but that we are only discovering aspects of her personality we did not bother exploring in ME1. Her character in ME2 does appear compatible with the persona displayed in the comics, although that could be considered "meta-gaming" by some.

When I first played ME1 a couple years back, Liara struck me as an under-written character. I felt too many of her lines delved into the asari species info and not enough into herself. By contrast, Ashley talked about her family, her relationship with her dad, her shared training experience with the same drill sergeant as Shepard's, etc... Ashley is human, so the writers didn't feel like they had to describe human mating practices or other cultural trivia. It kinda gave a bit of an unfair advantage to Ashley, as a potential LI for maleShep.

I'm eager to see what direction Liara will take in ME3, now that her dialog can focus on herself instead of serving as an encyclopedia on asari customs...

Your posts are always so informative, knowledgeable, and well-written. I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Edit: You bring up an interesting aspect of the Asari. We, or at least I, do look at them in the way you mentioned, but it may not be how they see themselves. Fascinating. You have given me a new outlook on them, thanks!

Modifié par AKFTF, 30 mars 2010 - 12:42 .

[BlackMetal]

AKFTF wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
Well, if Bioware is looking for another way to take a dump on poor Liara's character, they might as well keep going, amirite?
I can't stand what they did to Liara in ME2.

To temporise, I would argue that Liara's character was not elaborated much on in ME1. We DO know that she's ackward around people, she's considered a young adult among the asari, she's been alone on archeological digs and dealt with the odd bandit/pirate/slaver/wildlife with her biotics.

We know she admired her mother who, even endoctrinated, showed a very pragmatic and willfull personality (remember the way remained unimpressed by Saren's angry tantrum after Eden Prime). Liara probably has more in common with her mother than what was apparent in ME1. After all, she had limited prior contact with humans before and her ackwardness around Shepard did not allow any of the inner steel to shine through...

I think we (human players) have kind of let the curvy feminine appearance of asari mislead us as to their real personality. In a mono-gendered species, we cannot expect all asari to act "feminine". The asari no doubt have become adept at taking advantage of this popular misconception (no mind control required here...). Samara is a great reminder that asari may look feminine but behave in a "gender-neutral" or even "masculine" way.

Males look at asari and see a (pleasant-looking) female. Their common first reflex is to treat them as such. The stronger the gender bias is in the mind of the male, the more effect it will have on his attitude towards asari. In return, asari having been in contact with males from other species for centuries, have learned to adjust their attitude/posture/body language to "fit" and take advantage of this state of affairs.

Consider:
1) a tall burly human policeman/constable looks and acts like a tall burly policeman/constable.
2) an tall burly asari police officer/constable acts like a tall burly police officer/constable BUT looks like this hot blue babe to a human...

We (as humans) expect the asari to act like whatever female stereotype our culture has programmed us with. Asari have no such gender-based stereotypes. Some asari will think and act like rough sailors, soldiers, samurai, knight or any other "macho" archetype you can imagine (Matriarch Aethyta illustrates what I'm talking about, she's got a very "male" attitude towards sex, for instance; human females are not often THAT casual on that topic).

If you're a male player playing a maleShep and thought Aethyta attractive, consider for a moment that Aethyta might see herself as the "male" when she's checking out Shepard's glutes... Unsettling, isn't it? I bet it would probably spoil it for a few guys out there...

So, keeping all this in mind, I would argue that Liara's character may not have changed that much between ME1 and ME2 but that we are only discovering aspects of her personality we did not bother exploring in ME1. Her character in ME2 does appear compatible with the persona displayed in the comics, although that could be considered "meta-gaming" by some.

When I first played ME1 a couple years back, Liara struck me as an under-written character. I felt too many of her lines delved into the asari species info and not enough into herself. By contrast, Ashley talked about her family, her relationship with her dad, her shared training experience with the same drill sergeant as Shepard's, etc... Ashley is human, so the writers didn't feel like they had to describe human mating practices or other cultural trivia. It kinda gave a bit of an unfair advantage to Ashley, as a potential LI for maleShep.

I'm eager to see what direction Liara will take in ME3, now that her dialog can focus on herself instead of serving as an encyclopedia on asari customs...

Your posts are always so informative, knowledgeable, and well-written. I would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Edit: You bring up an interesting aspect of the Asari. We, or at least I, do look at them in the way you mentioned, but it may not be how they see themselves. Fascinating. You have given me a new outlook on them, thanks!

True that.

I am incredibly glad there are so many intelligent people populating this thread, i may not have every posted in this forum if it weren't for you guys and your mid blowing posts.

This next bong hit is for you guys. Cheers!