694 réponses à ce sujet

[Taura-Tierno]

Regarding the interview at: http://xbox360.ign.c.../1066954p2.html



I don't suppose anyone noticed how Ray Muzyka answered the question without answering? As in, he did not say that there will be no gay romances. He said that it's a conscious decision to have less choices than in other games. Which essentially means that they can still include it.



Didn't Bioware do the same thing with Dragon Age for quite a while? Not really answering the question about gay romances, and just saying things like "If we do it it's our decision". And in the above mentioned interview, the dev only constrasted ME with games like Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate. He did not give a definite answer, which means that they've not decided, or don't want to say what they've decided.

[Endurance_117]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

Regarding the interview at: http://xbox360.ign.c.../1066954p2.html

I don't suppose anyone noticed how Ray Muzyka answered the question without answering? As in, he did not say that there will be no gay romances. He said that it's a conscious decision to have less choices than in other games. Which essentially means that they can still include it.

Didn't Bioware do the same thing with Dragon Age for quite a while? Not really answering the question about gay romances, and just saying things like "If we do it it's our decision". And in the above mentioned interview, the dev only constrasted ME with games like Dragon Age and Baldur's Gate. He did not give a definite answer, which means that they've not decided, or don't want to say what they've decided.

Two different teams

[Cluck Norris]

Orogenic wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

And for the love of god, those of you with brains PLEASE stop responding to these trolls. Once you've discovered someone has an IQ<80 there is no further reason to engage in debate.

I'm still baffled I take part of such forum arguments, PARTICULARLY videogame ones where it seems the average IQ is lower than anywhere else...

Then just stop.

I've actually made a couple calls to a few friends that went to law school.. I'm wondering if it might not be possible to bring charges against a couple of the posters here under hate crime legislation.

The time really has come for decent people to stop sitting quietly while ignorant bigots attack and abuse minority groups just because they think no one will stop them.

Those out there with similar minds please take some backup copies of the relevant posts here.

So how is that lawsuit against 4chan going, and Encyclopedia Dramatica going?

Typical. Instead of refuting points, you resort to making empty threats.

You aren't any better than the "gay bashers" that you claim to be against.

[Khavos]

Cluck Norris wrote...

This is getting pathetic. Bioware should just come out and say there will never be a gay romance in Mass Effect, ever and lock every thread about it.

That'd be pretty funny if they did, given that there have been gay romances in both the games so far. 

[Cluck Norris]

TheSpaceHamster wrote...

 

Please direct this vehicle to the Gay support thread. A lot of whiners there.

[Cluck Norris]

Khavos wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

This is getting pathetic. Bioware should just come out and say there will never be a gay romance in Mass Effect, ever and lock every thread about it.

That'd be pretty funny if they did, given that there have been gay romances in both the games so far. 

Notice I said Mass Effect.

There haven't. Asari are not male nor female.

[ReDSH1FT]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Illerianna, I haven't used the word "******" once in this thread. I haven't flamed, insulted or trolled anyone on this thread. You came here without reading through the thread and began to flame unabashedly. That's not my problem.

Exactly, I'm the one using ****** to describe you guys illeriana.  

Because ****** is short for homosexual, which you proudly claim to be.

If you take offense to being called it, then you take offense to your own sexuality.  That's depressing.

[Khavos]

Cluck Norris wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

This is getting pathetic. Bioware should just come out and say there will never be a gay romance in Mass Effect, ever and lock every thread about it.

That'd be pretty funny if they did, given that there have been gay romances in both the games so far. 

Notice I said Mass Effect.

There haven't. Asari are not male nor female.

No, asari are female.  I'm also pretty sure Kelly Chambers is a female, too. 

[illerianna]

TheSpaceHamster wrote...

 Here's a basket of kittens, can we all get along now?



People need to stop taking themselves so seriously, and if anyone is using a game forum to boost their ego in real life - so be it; they'll be picking up our garbage for years to come.  

Baby hippo is better.

@James: I apologize if I came through as flaming, but considering how much you DID flame in the last thread, if you honestly thought that anyone would take you seriously after saying "homos" for 32 pages... You obviously need to lrn2firstimpressions.

Anyways.



Get along now plz.

EDIT:

ReDSH1FT wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Illerianna,
I haven't used the word "******" once in this thread. I haven't flamed,
insulted or trolled anyone on this thread. You came here without
reading through the thread and began to flame unabashedly. That's not
my problem.

Exactly, I'm the one using ****** to describe you guys illeriana.  

Because ****** is short for homosexual, which you proudly claim to be.

If you take offense to being called it, then you take offense to your own sexuality.  That's depressing.

I said I was gay? What? o_O Apparently if you want gay rights, you must be gay. BRB, telling my boyfriend.

Modifié par illerianna, 07 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[diskoh]

Cluck Norris wrote...

You aren't any better than the "gay bashers" that you claim to be against.

Yes, he is. It may have been a naive thing to say, but I'll take naive over the alternative any day. Gay bashers and racists share the bottom rung of human value.

Modifié par diskoh, 07 février 2010 - 05:57 .

[grimeyhippy]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Illerianna, I haven't used the word "******" once in this thread. I haven't flamed, insulted or trolled anyone on this thread. You came here without reading through the thread and began to flame unabashedly. That's not my problem.

Exactly, I'm the one using ****** to describe you guys illeriana.  

Because ****** is short for homosexual, which you proudly claim to be.

If you take offense to being called it, then you take offense to your own sexuality.  That's depressing.

 
how dare you hetero! :happy:

[TheSpaceHamster]

This is the direction the thread has gone...

Modifié par TheSpaceHamster, 07 février 2010 - 05:58 .

[DigitalLiquid I]

illerianna wrote...

SUPER CUTE!

[CakesOnAPlane]

I don't care if there's a gay romance, but if there is a gay character he should be interesting for everyone and not just thrown in for the sake of it.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Illeiranna, in the last thread I let myself get baited too easily, it was late and I was tired. I had no business flaming like I did. Hence why this thread has been completely serene when it comes to my responses.

[illerianna]

CakesOnAPlane wrote...

I don't care if there's a gay romance, but if there is a gay character he should be interesting for everyone and not just thrown in for the sake of it.

QFT.

Also, I say we turn this from a BAWWW fest (from both sides) into a cute animal fest before it gets locked.

[Endurance_117]

diskoh wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

You aren't any better than the "gay bashers" that you claim to be against.

Yes, he is. It may have been a naive thing to say, but I'll take naive over the alternative any day. Gay bashers and racists share the bottom rung of human value.

your grouping gay bashers and racist in the same category? Why not put strait bashers in there aswell

[Khavos]

Endurance_117 wrote...

your grouping gay bashers and racist in the same category? Why not put strait bashers in there aswell

I'd group 'em in the same category myself, and I'm straight.  I also live in the south, so I'm well aware of how accurate a classification it is. 

[PaulBreen]

Creid-X wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

d4m1an wrote...

Perhaps gay men cannot save humanity?

First, there is an obvious marketing issue about the image of iconic MALE commander Shepard as Bioware wants to portray him into the media (as a James T. Kirk ladies man archetype) and the notion of homosexuality.
If you want to get to the root of the "problem" here it is, male Shepard is intended to be an stereotypical action hero and that hardly computes with the image of an homosexual/bisexual character (blame Arnold Schwarzenegger, Silvester Stallone or even William Shatner and the movies/series/media the appeared in if you want, for establishing the stereotype in the first place)
I do not want an M/M option to be included in ME3 but because making Shepard suddenly interested in males after all this time is forced and immersion breaking, it has little to do with my self confidence on my own sexuality.

I will state again that I don't care about gay romance and only that it would make no sense in ME3, but that's not a good reason. He would not turn up gay if you don't make him gay, pure and simple.

Please, read the article again, male Shepard is a third person character, even if you can shape traces of his personality through choice there are some bases that can't be moved, him being heterosexual is one of them.
-He has consistently presented as heterosexual by the developers giving you only the chance to romance girls.
-Garrus comments on how all girls hit on Shepard and he laughs confidently.
-Out of a casual convo he makes an obvious move on Samara.
-He is compared to "ultimate ladies man" James T. kirk by the developers themselves.
-He show zero/0/nada of interest in males in both ME1 and ME2
Making him suddenly interested in males would significantly alter his established persona and character and would feel forced and immersion breaking to many people, if you are ok with this, maybe we should alter the Reaper's characters significantly as well and make them space fairies that want to give lollipops to all orgaic races. 

And despite all this, you can play this "ultimate ladies man" as a woman.  Weird.

I see no problem with including m/m romance options in ME3.  If, in your head, Shepard has always been a straight guy, then a simple "No thanks, I don't swing that way" option will cover it, and no-ones opinion of their character has to be altered.  But I think it's perfectly understandable that people might want it, and why not?  If you've skipped the m/f romances in the first couple of games, are starting a new character for ME3 or decide that your Shepard is bisexual (and it's not as if this is some bafflingly rare thing, according to the wikipedia entry on the Kinsey Reports: "The reports also state that nearly 46% of the male subjects had "reacted" sexually to persons of both sexes in the course of their adult lives, and 37% had at least one homosexual experience." - and this in the rather more oppressive atmosphere of the late 40s/ early 1950s, rather than the no doubt more relaxed 22nd century (from the way Ash talks in the first game about how people view her belief in God, it seems that religion has receeded quite a bit amongst humanity in this time, and I would expect that that would come with a concomitant growth in acceptance of non-standard sexuality, though Bioware are free to posit differently, of course.)) then the silly out-of-character arguments disappear.

It's clear to me that the IGN link that keeps getting posted is not particularly final.  It's clearly marketing waffle that Ray Muzyka gave in response to an unexpected question in order to not get hopes up about gay romances in ME2 (since he knew there weren't any).  There's no reason to expect that it would necessarily apply to ME3, which is still presumably in a pretty early stage (it would have to be, if Bioware realistically believes they will be able to incorporate fan feedback into their designs) and would have been even more so then and thus susceptibile to adding new options such as these.  As others have mentioned above, the idea that your Shepard can already range from male to female, atheist to believer, idealist striving for galactic harmony to humanity first zealot, kind defender of the weak to heartless bloodthirsty murderer and be of any race/look/age that you can convincingly manage to get the character creator to render and yet somehow be a fixed unchangeable character is a bit, well, contradictory.  Not to mention that Ray Muzyka is, I believe, not particularly involved with the day-to-day development of Bioware games these days as he is in a high level management role in EA, so he is perhaps not the best person to ask about specifics of reasons for design decisions (unless perhaps you want to know that Dragon Age is a dark heroic fantasy game and the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, or that Mass Effect 2 is the dark second act of the Mass Effect trilogy.  And you want to know this 35 times over the course of a given E3).

Now m/m romances are not the particular priority for me in a Mass Effect sequel.  Not least because I'm playing as a female Shepard (because Jennifer Hale r0xx0rs, and such other sophisticated reasons), but I'd be unlikely to use them anyway.  Real things I'd like to see are a continued focus on greater content levels as opposed to light content sidequests and (ugh) scanning (ME2 was much better at this than ME1, but I still long for a return to BG2 levels of stuff to do.  Dragon Age was more in my direction here), more depth for squadmates in terms of banter and especially friendship paths for romancable characters (Dragon age was really good at this too) and more options for use of powers in combat (again with the Dragon Age.  Dragon Age is awesome.  What are you doing reading this when you could be out buying Dragon Age instead?)  However, it would clearly be pleasing to a small but vocal section of the fanbase to include them, so why not?  If you have the resources to implement six (SIX!) different romances, then resources for it are available (seriously one of them was between a woman and a fish.  That surely cannot be a higher priority that m/m can it?  As the saying goes, a woman needs a fish like a man needs a bicycle.  Or it goes something like that).

Honestly, the argument against it seems to boils down to "it's icky".  And frankly, if you think that way, then the rules of this forum prevent me from telling you what I think about you. *shrugs*

[Cluck Norris]

Khavos wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

This is getting pathetic. Bioware should just come out and say there will never be a gay romance in Mass Effect, ever and lock every thread about it.

That'd be pretty funny if they did, given that there have been gay romances in both the games so far. 

Notice I said Mass Effect.

There haven't. Asari are not male nor female.

No, asari are female.  I'm also pretty sure Kelly Chambers is a female, too. 

Why do I even bother arguing with people who don't know the universe.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari

"asari are non-gender specific, with no concept of gender differences"

And getting a strip-tease from Kelly doesn't mean you romanced her. That is like saying going to the after-life club means that your female Shepard is automatically a lesbian.

[illerianna]

Khavos wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

your grouping gay bashers and racist in the same category? Why not put strait bashers in there aswell

I'd group 'em in the same category myself, and I'm straight.  I also live in the south, so I'm well aware of how accurate a classification it is. 

Welcome to the club. Ah... The bible belt. I remember Fox News getting their panties in a twist over sexytime in ME1.

Good times, good times.

[ReDSH1FT]

illerianna wrote...

CakesOnAPlane wrote...

I don't care if there's a gay romance, but if there is a gay character he should be interesting for everyone and not just thrown in for the sake of it.

QFT.

Also, I say we turn this from a BAWWW fest (from both sides) into a cute animal fest before it gets locked.

That's right, when defeated, instead of conceding, post animal pictures.  I'd say you're an accurate representation of your community.

[Endurance_117]

PaulBreen wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Creid-X wrote...

d4m1an wrote...

Perhaps gay men cannot save humanity?

First, there is an obvious marketing issue about the image of iconic MALE commander Shepard as Bioware wants to portray him into the media (as a James T. Kirk ladies man archetype) and the notion of homosexuality.
If you want to get to the root of the "problem" here it is, male Shepard is intended to be an stereotypical action hero and that hardly computes with the image of an homosexual/bisexual character (blame Arnold Schwarzenegger, Silvester Stallone or even William Shatner and the movies/series/media the appeared in if you want, for establishing the stereotype in the first place)
I do not want an M/M option to be included in ME3 but because making Shepard suddenly interested in males after all this time is forced and immersion breaking, it has little to do with my self confidence on my own sexuality.

I will state again that I don't care about gay romance and only that it would make no sense in ME3, but that's not a good reason. He would not turn up gay if you don't make him gay, pure and simple.

Please, read the article again, male Shepard is a third person character, even if you can shape traces of his personality through choice there are some bases that can't be moved, him being heterosexual is one of them.
-He has consistently presented as heterosexual by the developers giving you only the chance to romance girls.
-Garrus comments on how all girls hit on Shepard and he laughs confidently.
-Out of a casual convo he makes an obvious move on Samara.
-He is compared to "ultimate ladies man" James T. kirk by the developers themselves.
-He show zero/0/nada of interest in males in both ME1 and ME2
Making him suddenly interested in males would significantly alter his established persona and character and would feel forced and immersion breaking to many people, if you are ok with this, maybe we should alter the Reaper's characters significantly as well and make them space fairies that want to give lollipops to all orgaic races. 

And despite all this, you can play this "ultimate ladies man" as a woman.  Weird.

I see no problem with including m/m romance options in ME3.  If, in your head, Shepard has always been a straight guy, then a simple "No thanks, I don't swing that way" option will cover it, and no-ones opinion of their character has to be altered.  But I think it's perfectly understandable that people might want it, and why not?  If you've skipped the m/f romances in the first couple of games, are starting a new character for ME3 or decide that your Shepard is bisexual (and it's not as if this is some bafflingly rare thing, according to the wikipedia entry on the Kinsey Reports: "The reports also state that nearly 46% of the male subjects had "reacted" sexually to persons of both sexes in the course of their adult lives, and 37% had at least one homosexual experience." - and this in the rather more oppressive atmosphere of the late 40s/ early 1950s, rather than the no doubt more relaxed 22nd century (from the way Ash talks in the first game about how people view her belief in God, it seems that religion has receeded quite a bit amongst humanity in this time, and I would expect that that would come with a concomitant growth in acceptance of non-standard sexuality, though Bioware are free to posit differently, of course.)) then the silly out-of-character arguments disappear.

It's clear to me that the IGN link that keeps getting posted is not particularly final.  It's clearly marketing waffle that Ray Muzyka gave in response to an unexpected question in order to not get hopes up about gay romances in ME2 (since he knew there weren't any).  There's no reason to expect that it would necessarily apply to ME3, which is still presumably in a pretty early stage (it would have to be, if Bioware realistically believes they will be able to incorporate fan feedback into their designs) and would have been even more so then and thus susceptibile to adding new options such as these.  As others have mentioned above, the idea that your Shepard can already range from male to female, atheist to believer, idealist striving for galactic harmony to humanity first zealot, kind defender of the weak to heartless bloodthirsty murderer and be of any race/look/age that you can convincingly manage to get the character creator to render and yet somehow be a fixed unchangeable character is a bit, well, contradictory.  Not to mention that Ray Muzyka is, I believe, not particularly involved with the day-to-day development of Bioware games these days as he is in a high level management role in EA, so he is perhaps not the best person to ask about specifics of reasons for design decisions (unless perhaps you want to know that Dragon Age is a dark heroic fantasy game and the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, or that Mass Effect 2 is the dark second act of the Mass Effect trilogy.  And you want to know this 35 times over the course of a given E3).

Now m/m romances are not the particular priority for me in a Mass Effect sequel.  Not least because I'm playing as a female Shepard (because Jennifer Hale r0xx0rs, and such other sophisticated reasons), but I'd be unlikely to use them anyway.  Real things I'd like to see are a continued focus on greater content levels as opposed to light content sidequests and (ugh) scanning (ME2 was much better at this than ME1, but I still long for a return to BG2 levels of stuff to do.  Dragon Age was more in my direction here), more depth for squadmates in terms of banter and especially friendship paths for romancable characters (Dragon age was really good at this too) and more options for use of powers in combat (again with the Dragon Age.  Dragon Age is awesome.  What are you doing reading this when you could be out buying Dragon Age instead?)  However, it would clearly be pleasing to a small but vocal section of the fanbase to include them, so why not?  If you have the resources to implement six (SIX!) different romances, then resources for it are available (seriously one of them was between a woman and a fish.  That surely cannot be a higher priority that m/m can it?  As the saying goes, a woman needs a fish like a man needs a bicycle.  Or it goes something like that).

Honestly, the argument against it seems to boils down to "it's icky".  And frankly, if you think that way, then the rules of this forum prevent me from telling you what I think about you. *shrugs*

wall of text, where is the tl;dr 

[TheSpaceHamster]

 This cat is saying, "I have nothing more relevant occurring in my life than to worry about the sexuality of fictional characters."

[Khavos]

Cluck Norris wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Cluck Norris wrote...

This is getting pathetic. Bioware should just come out and say there will never be a gay romance in Mass Effect, ever and lock every thread about it.

That'd be pretty funny if they did, given that there have been gay romances in both the games so far. 

Notice I said Mass Effect.

There haven't. Asari are not male nor female.

No, asari are female.  I'm also pretty sure Kelly Chambers is a female, too. 

Why do I even bother arguing with people who don't know the universe.

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Asari

"asari are non-gender specific, with no concept of gender differences"

And getting a strip-tease from Kelly doesn't mean you romanced her. That is like saying going to the after-life club means that your female Shepard is automatically a lesbian.

That's cute.  The in-game codex refers to them as an all-female race.

I think I'll take Bioware's word over the wiki.