694 réponses à ce sujet

[Endurance_117]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Making Shepherd gay would be bang out of character.

Read my post, they are not doing it

[Chaos-fusion]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Well, over 2 games there has been no gay man options, not even a hint of it.
In my mind I've built up an image of Shepherd, and it's decidedly
straight. This is the same for every person who has played the game and
isn't gay. Suddenly letting my character respond in a gay way is just
off putting, immersion breaking and makes me uncomfortable.
Also most if not all straight guys find male on male scenes uncomfortable to watch, it's just
the way normal straight guys are.

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't expecting one really.

Hmm, if you don't like the prospect of Sheperd coming across as gay, (and I know too well how you can pick a dialogue option that is nothing like how you thought it would be) how would you feel if a gay romance option decided to hit on you instead? But letting you have a very clear "not interested" response? But then, most straight guys I know get very uncomfortable at the very thought of another guy hitting on them.

I also understand that male on male scenes would make some guys uncomfy too, but surely, you wouldn't even see them unless you specifically choose to?

[Lavans6879]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Hmm, if you don't like the prospect of Sheperd coming across as gay, (and I know too well how you can pick a dialogue option that is nothing like how you thought it would be) how would you feel if a gay romance option decided to hit on you instead? But letting you have a very clear "not interested" response? But then, most straight guys I know get very uncomfortable at the very thought of another guy hitting on them.

I also understand that male on male scenes would make some guys uncomfy too, but surely, you wouldn't even see them unless you specifically choose to?

Instead of having a gay guy hitting on Shepard, why not have Shepard hit on a gay guy?

Though typing this post made me chuckle at the thought that throughout the entire thread, the only presentable disagreement is m/m romance.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Like I said, I won't respond to trolling insultive posts masanbol. I don't fear gay people, that's just...rediculous, I just don't want to see Bioware be forced into something by a bunch of whiners...and it looks like they won't so, this discussion is pretty much over for me.

It wouldn't be the first time.  After all the whiners got what they wanted when they removed the inventory system.

In all fairness, the game plays better without an inventory system.

[Lavans6879]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Like I said, I won't respond to trolling insultive posts masanbol. I don't fear gay people, that's just...rediculous, I just don't want to see Bioware be forced into something by a bunch of whiners...and it looks like they won't so, this discussion is pretty much over for me.

It wouldn't be the first time.  After all the whiners got what they wanted when they removed the inventory system.

In all fairness, the game plays better without an inventory system.

ME2 did just fine without reminding me [sarcasm] your inventory is full! [/sarcasm]

Gotta love Joker =)

[rwilli80]

I won't even get into the gay/no gay discussion, but lets be realistic. If you had an option for Shepard to be gay in the first game it wouldn't be a problem now, but to suddenly change mid way through is just stupid. Now Dragon Age is a new game so you can have those types of relationships. But since it was pretty much established in ME1 that, at least the male, Shep isn't gay. Now one problem I do have is the fact you have that option for the female Shep, again if you want to call the Asaria women, since they are gender neutral. And the image you can get out of that, women in the military are all lesbians, which is a gross injustice.

[Chaos-fusion]

Lavans6879 wrote...

Instead of having a gay guy hitting on Shepard, why not have Shepard hit on a gay guy?

I have no problem with it. I'm just looking for opinions from people who do.

rwilli80 wrote...

If you had an option for Shepard to be
gay in the first game it wouldn't be a problem now, but to suddenly
change mid way through is just stupid.

In the first game,
there was no option to even flirt with Tali, so does that make her
romance in ME2 invalid simply because there was no option for it in the
first?

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 07 février 2010 - 03:45 .

[Aratham Darksight]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Hmm, if you don't like the prospect of Sheperd coming across as gay, (and I know too well how you can pick a dialogue option that is nothing like how you thought it would be) how would you feel if a gay romance option decided to hit on you instead? But letting you have a very clear "not interested" response? But then, most straight guys I know get very uncomfortable at the very thought of another guy hitting on them.

I also understand that male on male scenes would make some guys uncomfy too, but surely, you wouldn't even see them unless you specifically choose to?

He just wrote that he would prefer to remove the slightest mention of gay men from the game if possible, so how would being hit on by a guy be acceptable? That's just about the worst real-life nightmare of people who are "uncomfortable" with homosexuality.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

Well, over 2 games there has been no gay man options, not even a hint of it.
In my mind I've built up an image of Shepherd, and it's decidedly
straight. This is the same for every person who has played the game and
isn't gay. Suddenly letting my character respond in a gay way is just
off putting, immersion breaking and makes me uncomfortable.
Also most if not all straight guys find male on male scenes uncomfortable to watch, it's just
the way normal straight guys are.

Thanks for the reply. I wasn't expecting one really.

Hmm, if you don't like the prospect of Sheperd coming across as gay, (and I know too well how you can pick a dialogue option that is nothing like how you thought it would be) how would you feel if a gay romance option decided to hit on you instead? But letting you have a very clear "not interested" response? But then, most straight guys I know get very uncomfortable at the very thought of another guy hitting on them.

I also understand that male on male scenes would make some guys uncomfy too, but surely, you wouldn't even see them unless you specifically choose to?

I already stated elsewhere that if they were to introduce a new gay character for ME3 I wouldn't be opposed to it, as long as I could decline him early on, and get to know his backstory as a comrade in arms. And as long as the gay vibe wasn't broadcast right in my face, I mean he would have to be a manly gay guy, like Louis out of the John Connoly novels, big, black, gay, sharp dressing assassin, and cool as **** to boot.

As long as they don't mess with the current character set. That's my main concern. But tbh, I'd be just as happy if no gay option were introduced as even with the option to decline, it would still be there, you could still turn this galaxy saving Alpha Male into a gay..where you couldn't in the previous 2 games so again, its about breaking the immersion.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 07 février 2010 - 03:47 .

[Lavans6879]

rwilli80 wrote...

I won't even get into the gay/no gay discussion, but lets be realistic. If you had an option for Shepard to be gay in the first game it wouldn't be a problem now, but to suddenly change mid way through is just stupid. Now Dragon Age is a new game so you can have those types of relationships. But since it was pretty much established in ME1 that, at least the male, Shep isn't gay. Now one problem I do have is the fact you have that option for the female Shep, again if you want to call the Asaria women, since they are gender neutral. And the image you can get out of that, women in the military are all lesbians, which is a gross injustice.

That depends on your perspective. For an asari, a f/f relationship isn't gay. But for a human female, a f/f relationship is gay...and the asari identify as female, even though they're gender neutral.

[JamesMoriarty123]

Asari are monogender but phenotypically female, probably because it's easier on the eyes and makes romancing an Asari pleasurable to the wideest playerbase of straight males.

[Darth Obvious]

Is the concept of freedom of choice lost on some of these people? I can't imagine being so evil as to support such a thing...

[Endurance_117]

Darth Obvious wrote...

Is the concept of freedom of choice lost on some of these people? I can't imagine being so evil as to support such a thing...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

[DigitalLiquid I]

Asari lovin' sure is pleasurable...

[Cat Fancy]

Endurance_117 wrote...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

I think it's hilarious that the Shepard, or should I say, LadyShepard and DudeShepard, are supposed to be distinct, well-defined characters in this respect. They can be ****s, incredibly virtuous, xenophobic, whatever, all completely arbitrarily (as if I have to say this, but if you just pick random wheel choices the sense of Shepard as any kind of coherent character falls apart), but one thing's for sure: if he's a dude, he likes ladies. And if she's a lady, she likes dudes. And ladies. MAKES SENSE, UNDERSTAND WHY THEY COULD NEVER CHANGE ANYTHING THAT CRUCIAL.

I don't really care about the lack of gay romance in the games, but it's annoying with all the fanservice lesbianism (random, unprovoked sex with the consort in ME1- I wanted her to **** off, I did not want to **** her), which is, doubtless, obnoxious to gay dudes, lesbians, other women and, you know, thinking people in general.

OP, as others have said, you're being homophobic. That doesn't make you a super-villain, but don't try to deny it. If the presence of gay people bothers you enough to seriously harm your enjoyment of it, you have a problem with gay people.

Also, I was just able to tell Mordin Shepard was interested in him. Canonically, MaleShep does like dudes!
 It has been established.

Modifié par umwhatyousay, 07 février 2010 - 03:53 .

[DigitalLiquid I]

Kordaris wrote...

Agree with the original poster. There is already too much romance in ME, we don't need gay option to satisfy angry demands of the small gay community.
Mass Effect 2 is far different then Dragon Age. Shepard is a classical Golden Age SF hero in the likes of Kirk and represents tropes that do not include queerness. DA is making use of wide ranging fantasy tropes with shift on dark fantasy-those works do include different sexual themes.
So no, thank you but no gay Shepards please. And as he is clearly straight including it in ME3 would break the immersion. And seriously-why can't we have a pre-defined character that is not bi, gay but straight ?
If Bioware decided to paly with more different SF ideas and based it on more modern works, why not. But I don't think it should be big part of the game.
Just as it is the romance part is too big in the game already, and I wish they would include something to avoid it completely.

You can avoid it, either don't talk to them or deny them your love if they ever bring it up, which they only will if you push the conversation in that general direction.
Also i'm not sure if "queerness" is really the best word.

[Mezinger]

I am not gay and I disagree with the OP. People disappointed they can't play a gay Shepard good for them go ahead and tell someone... I don't think being gay makes you less tough or whatever the OP is trying to get across.

[JamesMoriarty123]

umwhatyousay wrote...

Endurance_117 wrote...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance for a lesbian relationship.

Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role, and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and that's intentional.

We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did in Baldur's Gate, and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But that's by choice.

It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

Also, I was just able to tell Mordin Shepard was interested in him. Canonically, MaleShep does like dudes!
 It has been established.

You have to understand a joke response from an actual response. Ala Shaun of the Dead...Shaun to Ed - "Cheers Babe"

[DigitalLiquid I]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

You have to understand a joke response from an actual response. Ala Shaun of the Dead...Shaun to Ed - "Cheers Babe"

I don't agree with many of your points on this matter but i do enjoy a Shaun of the Dead reference. Kudos sir.

[dcrypt]

Yeah, the only thing the chode-mance threads accomplish is providing the majority of us with entertainment.



I mean you guys have to know its never going to happen right?

[DigitalLiquid I]

Kordaris wrote...

DigitalLiquid I wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Agree with the original poster. There is already too much romance in ME, we don't need gay option to satisfy angry demands of the small gay community.
Mass Effect 2 is far different then Dragon Age. Shepard is a classical Golden Age SF hero in the likes of Kirk and represents tropes that do not include queerness. DA is making use of wide ranging fantasy tropes with shift on dark fantasy-those works do include different sexual themes.
So no, thank you but no gay Shepards please. And as he is clearly straight including it in ME3 would break the immersion. And seriously-why can't we have a pre-defined character that is not bi, gay but straight ?
If Bioware decided to paly with more different SF ideas and based it on more modern works, why not. But I don't think it should be big part of the game.
Just as it is the romance part is too big in the game already, and I wish they would include something to avoid it completely.

You can avoid it, either don't talk to them or deny them your love if they ever bring it up, which they only will if you push the conversation in that general direction.
Also i'm not sure if "queerness" is really the best word.

Ever tried to have a normal relation with Jack  ? Really, every time I was afraid to start conversations, every time you start something it turns to loooooveeee. I mean c'mon. This is fanservice at its worst, they should give more character developement(like Moridin had) not making some characters just lovebots(Miranda, Tali, Jack, I hear it is the same with Jacob for Femsheps). I even considered suggesting a pink colour option in dialogue, so we can avoid that barrage of romance
As to use of queerness-I am not native speaker in English, I use the word as it was used on my queer studies meetings at university.

I can understand where you're coming from but romance is a very large part of Mass Effect, many other Bioware games for that matter. You just need to accept that, if you don't like that option you may be playing the wrong games.

[Chaos-fusion]

JamesMoriarty123 wrote...

I already stated elsewhere that if they were to introduce a new gay character for ME3 I wouldn't be opposed to it, as long as I could decline him early on, and get to know his backstory as a comrade in arms. And as long as the gay vibe wasn't broadcast right in my face, I mean he would have to be a manly gay guy, like Louis out of the John Connoly novels, big, black, gay, sharp dressing assassin, and cool as **** to boot.

As long as they don't mess with the current character set. That's my main concern. But tbh, I'd be just as happy if no gay option were introduced as even with the option to decline, it would still be there, you could still turn this galaxy saving Alpha Male into a gay..where you couldn't in the previous 2 games so again, its about breaking the immersion.

I see. Why can't the alpha male be gay? Allowing a f/f romance in the first didn't stop my femshep being less feminine. she didn't end up being a stereotypical butch lass with a deep voice and too much testosterone.

I do not understand the "it wasn't in the first 2 games" option. Again, I need to bring up the Tali thing; there is nothing even remotely flirty with her in the first ME, so she shouldn't be an option in ME2? It's the same thing after all.

Aratham Darksight wrote...

He just wrote that he would
prefer to remove the slightest mention of gay men from the game if
possible, so how would being hit on by a guy be acceptable? That's just
about the worst real-life nightmare of people who are "uncomfortable"
with homosexuality.

I would expect that to be the answer, but I
don't like assuming. I only wanted clarification, that's all.

[Pannamaslo]

It's settled there won't be any gay options. Why to beat, kick and bash a dead horse?