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Why Bioware Does NOT Have To Patch The Text


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#1
Madapaca

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Even after Bioware's Michael Gamble explained that there would be no patch or adjustments to the text, some of you refuse to let it go. Initially I was some what sympathetic to the plight of SD-TV users, that has now started to change.

In subsequent posts after Bioware/EA released their decision, the sheer audacity of some posters is astounding. Refusing to accept their decision and outwardly criticizing their actions. Justified or not, you need to have some  sort of modicum of respect towards Bioware/EA. Especially given the current amount of other unintentional bugs/glitches requiriing their immediate attention.

Stanley Woo, who is a Bioware Q.A. Story Team member was quoted talking about adult conent in the game. His remarks though can be extended to cover the game as a whole. He stated:

"it is not your job to dictate what content we include or don't include in our games. Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game."

What he said covers Bioware's design choice to go with the more HD-TV friendly user interface. You may not agree with it, you may not even understand it. You as the player and customer who bought the product only have to decide if you accept it, or not. If you don't accept it, then your options are to sell the game, move on, and don't support Bioware/EA in the future. You do not have the option to complain until the end of time on thier forums because you don't like it.

Ars Technica, Kotaku, and other sites have picked up the issue only to drop it and move on. You all need to do the same. There is a reason why they made very little fuss about the matter, in the end it all comes down to choice. No one is making you play the game, and videogames are a luxury not a right.

You can complain all day that you should be able to play it on equipment made years ago, but Bioware/EA intentionally went with choices catering to modern technology. The only wrong they have commited is not explicity warning about this choice before hand. That being said though, they didn't have to. It can be argued that it should be implied by now that high profile titles such as Mass Effect 2 push technology forward.

You can't expect them to be releasing a game in the year 2010 optiomized for televisions that are not going to put their product in the best possible viewing experience. Like it or not, anyone playing games like Mass Effect 2 on SD-TVs are downgrading the intented experience the game makers had in mind.

For those still holding out that this will turn into a disability violation, you need to read up on your facts. In most countries with protection for these groups, the protection only extends so far. In America, the Americans with Disabilities Act states the following:

"(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more of the major life activities of such individual;

(B) a record of such an impairment; or

© being regarded as having such an
impairment" 42 cfr 12111(8)"

"Major life activities" does not apply to videogames. Hypothetically even if one could argue videogames were a major life activiy, eyesight in general is extremely hard to argue in ADA cases. The supreme court has ruled in several cases that most eyesight issues, as well as things that effect it are correctable. Being such, the ADA does not extend to those people.

Lastly, it has been argued that if Rare can do a text patch, then so should Bioware. Nuts & Bolts's issue was brought up before it's release. Intially Rare said no, it would not be fixed. Upon the games release, it was dead on arrival. You could argue that the text played a part in it's poor sales, or you could blame the game's departure from the previous entries int he series. Either way, in an effort to improve sales a month after it's release Rare issued a patch. The changes needed for the text in Nuts & Bolts were miniscule by comparison to that of what would be needed for Mass Effect. There were no user interface issues to resolve, just simply bumping up the text size for the giant text dialouge windows that appear during cut scenes. In the end, the money and effort spent by Rare didn't pay off.

In closing, I would like to say to the hard working men and women at Bioware/EA. Not all of us share the sentiments of the ungreatful. I applaud you on the masterpiece that is Mass Effect 2 and can't wait to see what you have for us in store for Mass Effect 3 and beyond. We know that there are growing pains associated with trying to move things forward. DLC and it's new delivery system will get better with time. Like anything else in life, there are learning curves to such changes.

Don't let the complaining and squeaky wheels get to you and distract you from the task at hand. I and many others like myself wish nothing more than quick resolutions to the real game bugs, and problems preventing you from putting full attention on your other future projects. Again, thank you.

Modifié par Madapaca, 07 février 2010 - 02:12 .


#2
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yeah but we bought the game that is heavily based in dialogue and if that dialogue text cannot be read then we have purchased a faulty product. do you normally accept buying a faulty product and then being told by devs that there is no fix intended?

i love bioware devs in my heart but even if they say they will never fix the bug doesn't mean people have to stop asking for it to be fixed.



if you don't like some people specific tones to devs, i don't blame you, but to make apost about it is unnecessary, just ignore them and keep going about your day, the devs and moderators in this community have thick skin and can tell the difference between thoughtful criticism and trolling.

#3
Madapaca

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scyphozoa wrote...

yeah but we bought the game that is heavily based in dialogue and if that dialogue text cannot be read then we have purchased a faulty product. do you normally accept buying a faulty product and then being told by devs that there is no fix intended?
i love bioware devs in my heart but even if they say they will never fix the bug doesn't mean people have to stop asking for it to be fixed.

if you don't like some people specific tones to devs, i don't blame you, but to make apost about it is unnecessary, just ignore them and keep going about your day, the devs and moderators in this community have thick skin and can tell the difference between thoughtful criticism and trolling.


You purchased what in your opinion is a faulty product. If a product is only faulty to some, then by defiiniton some is not all.

You can't say you love something, and then disrespect it by saying you won't accept it. Bioware is well within it's right to cater to what it feels is the best choice given the situation.

I made the post to address what I saw as blatant sheer stubbornness on some individuals part to simply accept Bioware's decision and move on. I know they have tough skin and know which criticism to listen to and which to avoid. This wasn't made so much for Bioware, as it was for those who can't move on.

#4
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its not an opinion. if 40% of the people who bought ME2 cannot read or struggle to read the text, then yes, it is detrimental to the ME2 experience for those people. You can argue about it being the right or wrong thing to do, but when the margin for error is "everyone who has an SDTV" were talking about tens of millions of people. HD is not as common as the opulent american world would assume, there are a lot of SDTVs out there and those people are not getting the full or intended ME2 experience.

so yes, to that margin of error, those people bought a faulty product. its not an opinion, its a matter of how much of the intended ME2 experience people are getting. Since ME2 is so heavily based on text and dialogue i would say this absolutely constitutes the definition of faulty.

anyway, i played on an SDTV and the text was too small and i had to lean in every conversation to read it. truth be told, leaning in to read text isn't terrible, and i did it because i value the text of ME2 enough to make additional concessions. but the game isn't supposed to come with a list of prerequisites and concessions the customer should have to make.

the game is supposed to present clear, readable text on the screen for the player to interact with and fails to.

it doesn't matter if 100 people or 100 million people have the problem, its not an opinion. faulty means that the product doesn't do what the product was designed to do. the product was designed to be visible and it is not visible.

Modifié par scyphozoa, 07 février 2010 - 02:36 .


#5
Madapaca

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scyphozoa wrote...

its not an opinion. if 40% of the people who bought ME2 cannot read or struggle to read the text, then yes, it is detrimental to the ME2 experience for those people. You can argue about it being the right or wrong thing to do, but when the margin for error is "everyone who has an SDTV" were talking about tens of millions of people. HD is not as common as the opulent american world would assume, there are a lot of SDTVs out there and those people are not getting the full or intended ME2 experience.


The tens of millions of people with SD-TVs are not Bioware/EA's intented demographic. This game in it's lifetime will probably ship only a couple of million copies at the most. Out of those couple of million copies, your arguement of tens of millions of SD-TV users gets scaled down dramatically.

You said: "there are a lot of SDTVs otu there and those people are not geting the full or intended ME2 expeirence." Of course they are not, because Bioware made a choice to make the Mass Effect 2 experience High Definition. Anything less, is downgrading and your results will vary depending what type of SD-TV/cables you use.

Modifié par Madapaca, 07 février 2010 - 02:41 .


#6
jstne

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The complaining would be understandable if there wasn't audio for the dialog. If you have trouble hearing the dialogue, then turn down the music/effects and keep dialog at 100%.



Changing fonts is more troublesome than it may seem. Bioware would have to replace every text asset with a new one, which could mean recoding the 2D/text portion of their graphics entirely. Then they'd have to QA it, bugfix, etc. Also, MS limits patches to 4MB or so.

#7
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target demographic doesn't matter if your product fails to do what it is designed to do. me2 is designed to present visible text to interact with and fails to do so.

#8
Madapaca

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scyphozoa wrote...

target demographic doesn't matter if your product fails to do what it is designed to do. me2 is designed to present visible text to interact with and fails to do so.


We've established by Bioware's own admisison that this was a design choice. That means, that Mass Effect 2 is designed to present visible text to interact with on HD-TVs and computer monitors. If you make the choice to use a SD-TV, then you do so at your own risk of not being able to have visible text to interact with as the game is not optimized to do so on SD-TVs.

So, target demographic does matter because it is not failing to do what it was designed to. The only instances when it does fail, are due to human error. (Users not having their HD-TVs properly connected using the appropriate cables, sitting too far away, and deliberately not seeking proper eye care.)

Modifié par Madapaca, 07 février 2010 - 03:05 .


#9
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done with this thread, just getting the last word bc madapaca loves it

#10
smudgedhorizon

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I do see your point, and I personally have a 42 inch HDTV so I'm not affected as much, but I do have bad eyes and the small text does give me headaches, even with my tv. Not a huge deal for me personally, but I really feel for those people with SDTVs.



I know that Rare patched Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts because of this exact issue, not long after the complaints about it started, so really that shows it is possible to be done, Bioware just won't, which I don't think is very fan-friendly of them. *shrugs*

#11
The Mass Effected

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smudgedhorizon wrote...

I do see your point, and I personally have a 42 inch HDTV so I'm not affected as much, but I do have bad eyes and the small text does give me headaches, even with my tv. Not a huge deal for me personally, but I really feel for those people with SDTVs.

I know that Rare patched Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts because of this exact issue, not long after the complaints about it started, so really that shows it is possible to be done, Bioware just won't, which I don't think is very fan-friendly of them. *shrugs*

"Bioware just won't, which I don't think is very fan-friendly of them."

Says it all really.

#12
Madapaca

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smudgedhorizon wrote...

I know that Rare patched Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts because of this exact issue, not long after the complaints about it started, so really that shows it is possible to be done, Bioware just won't, which I don't think is very fan-friendly of them. *shrugs*


Nuts & Bolts situation was a bit different. Nuts and Bolts had a demo before it's release. After users downloaded the demo, that is when the SD-TV text complaints began. HD-TV users didn't complain at all for Nuts & Bolts. At the time, and before the games release, Rare said to fix it would be too time consuming and not cost effective. Fast foward to the games release and it bombed hard. Agan as I said in my original post, it could be argued the small text had a part in it's failure, but most of it's failure is attributed to it just being too different from the previous games. In an effort to salvage sales, Rare rushed out a patch a month after it came out. In the end though, even with an option for larger text the game sales never took off.

Nuts & Bolts user interface is childlike compared to Mass Effect 2's UI. Bioware's stance on the issue is that any change in the text would require far reaching changes in the game. That's why they've opted to maintain their design choice and not issue a patch to change it.

#13
Disassemble

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My hearing isn't the best, so I am somewhat dependent on the text. This is a real issue for me, though I am somewhat mystified as to people bringing up and being outspoken an issue for them is such an issue for you. What's your stake? Personally, I think that it is reasonable for me to expect to be able to read the text in a game on my 360 with my television. That is why I continue on with the issue, despite it being unlikely to be addressed, because I, and others like me, have an issue with this. It doesn't matter if you don't have an issue with the text, we do.

#14
Madapaca

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Disassemble wrote...

My hearing isn't the best, so I am somewhat dependent on the text. This is a real issue for me, though I am somewhat mystified as to people bringing up and being outspoken an issue for them is such an issue for you. What's your stake? Personally, I think that it is reasonable for me to expect to be able to read the text in a game on my 360 with my television. That is why I continue on with the issue, despite it being unlikely to be addressed, because I, and others like me, have an issue with this. It doesn't matter if you don't have an issue with the text, we do.


My wife has a 60% hearing loss in her left ear, so I understand your point. I've naturally just gotten used to the subtitles in moveis, and louder volume that she requires. I hope, that you are taking your healthcare seriously and have been to an Otolaryngologist to see what options are available to you to help improve your quality of life.

On to the topic at hand, you are mystified at my defense of Bioware's right to make the game how they see fit? Companies like Bioware/EA know their products are for entertainment purposes only. They are luxuries and as such they are pretty much given free control to make their prodcuts for whomever they choose. In this case, they've intentionally gone with a choice that favors High Definition and PC monitors over Standard Definiton. So, sadly in that case it is unreasonable for you to expect the same experience that was designed for High Defintion to be had on your SD-TV.

Bioware/EA's only flaw in this is that they didn't warn you ahead of time before your purchase. As such, that is their only transgression. Even then, it is their right to either inform or not inform you ahead of time. They are not required to do so no matter how wrong or right it may be. If you are unable or unwilling to view the game in the manner in which it was intended, your only real recourse is to no longer support their products in the future.

Modifié par Madapaca, 07 février 2010 - 05:09 .


#15
Disassemble

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It is not your arguments that are perplexing, but your actions. I am just curious as to why this matters so much to you. I know why it matters to me, I can't hear very well and I need text and subtitles. Why does me campaigning for this matter to you?

#16
Tails88

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Madapaca wrote...

Companies like Bioware/EA know their products are for entertainment purposes only. They are luxuries and as such they are pretty much given free control to make their prodcuts for whomever they choose. In this case, they've intentionally gone with a choice that favors High Definition and PC monitors over Standard Definiton. So, sadly in that case it is unreasonable for you to expect the same experience that was designed for High Defintion to be had on your SD-TV.


EA, Bioware and every other software house/publisher out there develop video games to make money. It's sad, but this is it.
Then they use the money they've earned to do other games. It's fairly simple, I think.

If you go for the money, youy should support every type of gamer. They've done the PC version, and it supports dozens of resolutions and screen ratios, OBVIOUSLY. 
On Xbox 360 is much simpler, because there are 2 aspect ratios (4:3, 16:9) and 2 resolutions (SD, HD). What they've done for the PC version, could be done with much less effort and time for Xbox 360.

They have the right to make the game unreadable and unplayable, and so I have the right to complain.
If I'm complaining about this issue is not because I've got nothing else to do. I've waited this game for ages, I've preordered the collector's edition and, for what I've played, it seems BEAUTIFUL.

And I can't play it.

They've gone for HD, and it shows. The difference in graphic details between HD and SD is staggering, the game in beautiful. And of course I know that I couldn't be getting that beauty on my SDTV. I always knew that, but I didn't care, the game seemed wonderful and i loved ME1.

No one here is saying that Bioware should stop whatever they're doing and fix this for tomorrow, but as a consumer I feel cheated by this "design choice" because there is just no reason for it. 
And they didn't do it on purpose. Michael Gamble said that:

" While this was not an intentional result, it was a byproduct of enhancements to the user interface. "

Simply, they just didn't think about it. They've made a mistake, a big one if you ask me.
They're humans, not Turians, they can make a mistake.
But I can't accept that, because of this MISTAKE, i won't be able to play it unless i go and buy other hardware. This isn't right.

Rare made the patch for money. It's sad, but it shows that it can be done. Bioware should do it for money, too, since the fanbase loyalty isn't enough to make a patch for their mistakeds. No SDTV user will buy this game, they'll rent it first. It's the 40/50% of the Xbox 360 users. There is money involved.

That's why I am complaining, because they've said that it was a mistake, and that I'm screwed. Because of our complains, things in ME3 will be better, so something good already happened thanks to us.

But I still can't play ME2.

Modifié par Tails88, 07 février 2010 - 05:51 .


#17
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Excuse me? Even some people with HDTV suffer from the minimalistic text.



Hell, you ever tried to read the Codex in ME1? It was divine to read. ME2, they are too small to even care about or bother reading them, they just strain you too much that it borders "epiczfailx".

#18
mobius160

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Look I respect Bioware's decision. I don't agree with it but I understand.
many people that don't have this problem seem to think that SDTV is outdated.
Analog TV was supported long past its prime. SDTVs are still sold in stores. So why were they not supported here? Its not a legal issue even though sense I do have glasses I could sue like the person suing Sony Online Entertainment. I won't. It's pointless. And even though its not a legal issue it is a matter of common courtesy.

I'm happy to get a straight answer and I can read it just enough to understand what is happening. The shear size of that update would require forever to develop and test and it isn;t as feasible as I wish it were.

As for your argument that since it doesn't affect everyone it isn't faulty I have a fairly simple response. Based on that argument you would say that since not all smokers get cancer cigarretes aren't a faulty product?

I'll make do with what I have. But the OP needs to shut up.

The people that are complaining have a legal right to say what they think. They cannot experience the game at its best. And frankly SDTV offer great picture quality I really don't care if I can see the sweat on an athlete's forehead or not. The day SDTVs are no longer manufactured is the day support for them can be really dropped.

The OP is a condescending jackhole who since he does not have a problem feels like he has the right to tell everyone else that they are wrong. He is willing to let anything that doesn't affect him be ignored. That pisses me off. I was fine with Bioware's decision because I do understand and I still enjoy the game. The OP however is not in a position that I respect nor does he have any power to tell myself or others what is wrong or what we can or can't complain about.

So I'm going to check this thread repeatedly and counter every argument the OP makes on the subject. That's what happens when someone's attitude pisses me off.

So in summarry: @the OP stop being a condescending idiot, who because he has the money to spend on a HDTV thinks people with SDTV's should be able to experience this game at its fullest. Also Bioware is amazing and I love them. I wish something could be done but I am willing to accept their decision. But could they please make CV stop saying I put a gun to his head?

Modifié par mobius160, 07 février 2010 - 08:35 .


#19
manicman1171

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Op = EA Husk.

#20
Jesse Houston

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The issue is dead folks. Closing this topic. We've investigated and are unable to fix it in a Title Update.