97 réponses à ce sujet

[LdyShayna]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

I empathize with this but I would encourage you to visualize/manifest what you want.  

Not quite sure what you want me to visualize, here.  My response was about comparing playing with friends with playing with BioWare written companions. 

I am confused why people are so hung up on BioWare 'choosing' one or another, when they clearly have the resources to work on multiple quality projects at once.  

Because they are quite obviously NOT working on KotOR 3, which means THEY chose one over the other.  Or, perhaps, they were never given the choice and are merely doing what LucasArts chose.  Either way, the choice was, indeed, made.

So how about we have S.W.:T.O.R. 'AND' S.W.:K.O.T.O.R. III?  What BioWare says today regarding this is kinda irrelevant to what they may say tomorrow.

I don't particularly want SW: TOR, though, which is to all appearances all I'm getting.

[Aimus Sage]

Personally I never really got the appeal of an mmorpg. I play games like kotor and mass effect etc. because I like to enjoy a good story, it is like reading a good book or watching a film, when I were to play a mmorpg I just don't get the same enjoyment out of the story, it's just a watery flimsy thing to me, even if it is a good story, there will be thousands that are playing in the same world, diluting my experience of the game, I don't play games for the social interaction, I have the real world for that, and it's much more entertaining social interaction if you ask me.



That's not to say I am against mmo games. I am sure there are a lot of people who like them, but I am saddened that they chose to take the setting of KOTOR and turn it into this. Kotor was an amazing game, and even kotor 2 was good, although the end was somewhat weak. It feels like they take an amazing story like the foundation series of novels by asimov and turn it into a transformer film by michael bay. I found transformers to be a great visual spectacle and a good way to spend an evening at the cinema, but if they had taken a deep and intricate novel and turned it into that sort of mindless mass entertainment, I would never see it, just because I don't want to ruin my memory of the original.



So in short, if they make TOR, fine let them do it, I can see their reasoning for doing it and am sure there will be people that like it, but I don't have to like it and as such probably wont buy it. I'll cherish the memory of the original and leave it at that. Look what blizzard did to the warcraft universe. Although I never was a huge fan of the warcraft games, WoW made it into something worse.

So unless I am completely wrong and there is an awesome story that can be enjoyed in TOR without having to deal with random idiots jumping around and being donkeys all the time.



Also as already been said, these MMO games have a tendency to demistefy a fictional universe, turn the great evils and so on into small obstacles that can be toppled by just about everyone. It's the idea of being the only one that can do it, that makes it great, that's why in RPG's you play a role and in that moment you are the only one in that universe, it is seperate from the others that play the same game, in an mmo, 1000s play on the same server and have killed that same evil dude that was in the end just a small obstacle to running around like a donkey shouting insults. (I know i am exaggerating, it's for dramatic effect or whatever.)



...I'm just hoping they never give Mass effect the mmo treatment.



On a side note, this is a poll on a forum that is basically centred around single player games, it makes sense that the majority would vote for another SP experience rather than a MMO one. That does not mean there is no market for an MMO. Just that the current fans of bioware prefer single player games, and for somehow I don't think bioware will stop making those anytime soon either.





Wow, that was a big rant... Oh well, back to Mass effect 2.

[12ght91]

Aimus Sage wrote...


Also as already been said, these MMO games have a tendency to demistefy a fictional universe, turn the great evils and so on into small obstacles that can be toppled by just about everyone. It's the idea of being the only one that can do it, that makes it great, that's why in RPG's you play a role and in that moment you are the only one in that universe, it is seperate from the others that play the same game, in an mmo, 1000s play on the same server and have killed that same evil dude that was in the end just a small obstacle to running around like a donkey shouting insults. (I know i am exaggerating, it's for dramatic effect or whatever.)

Yes, that's what I was saying - you want a big epic story to feel like you are the only one experiencing it - that you are the only one who can save the galaxy, or whatever.

On a side note, this is a poll on a forum that is basically centred around single player games, it makes sense that the majority would vote for another SP experience rather than a MMO one. That does not mean there is no market for an MMO. 

 Well don't point THAT out! We want it to look like no one wants an MMO! lol

[chiliztri]

12ght91 wrote...

I agree, TOR does look interesting, and I wonder how it will work. As for the multiplayer dialogue, I think one player is the leader and does most of the talking, but at points it switches to let the other player speak (there's a video of that somewhere). I'd quite like to play TOR, but no matter how good it is, its still an MMO; and I would not feel like it is my game, which is partly what an RPG is about.

Yes, I saw that video. But, they were playing in a group, and were showing how both members can interact in a situation. Say you are playing solo and want to talk to an NPC to get a quest, when you talk to said NPC you get the cutscene dialogue. For visualization purposes, I'll link the developer walkthrough from the TOR website.

http://www.swtor.com...per-walkthrough

So, your a bounty hunter and you want to enter the great hunt. In order to do so you need to talk to the NPC and enter a cutscene conversation. But, this isn't a single player game, there are going to be other players running around in the game. So, what I'm wondering is how this is going to be handled with multiple players. If mulitple players want to engage the same NPC in conversation, how will this be handled? Does each player get his own cutscene conversation? I think that would detract from the experience somewhat, by creating a pocket dimension for each player. Not only that, but I don't like being stuck in a conversation in an MMO, especially in PvP servers where high level characters can just waltz into an area and start ganking everyone. In WoW you can still be somewhat aware of your surroundings while getting quest, and should anything happen you can exit quickly.

Realistically speaking, I don't see how they are going to do it. But, maybe they know something I don't and can implement singleplayer gameplay into an MMO despite the incompatibilty I see. I'm quite interested to see how this is going to turn out, and heck, they may even surprise me.

[12ght91]

Yes, I don't know how they'll do that either, but I'm sure they'll find a way. I've never played an MMO - just watched someone else, and my god was it boring. I know a lot of people like MMOs, but I think its more of an aquired taste than any other genre.

[DivineBeetle]

Its going to be interesting, but I'm not one for mmo's.

Its a bit like them making an mmo as a follow up to Mass Effect 1 and 2 and saying, well, its gonna be 3, 4, 5 and 6 all rolled into one.

No thanks

[12ght91]

Yes - let's pray that isnt the 'far-reaching' thing they're talking about for 2011! I think most people - as expected - seem to be in the same camp. That TOR will be fine, but it's just no replacement for a proper KOTOR game (which still seems to be a lot of people's favourite BioWare game). The poll seems most telling, I think - at 73 votes for KOTOR 3 (86%).

social.bioware.com/1382154/polls/1889/ 

I know I keep linking it, but I would love for BioWare to see, definitively, how much their fans want a KOTOR game 

[Jae Onasi]

It's not the fans that drive game development, it's the dollars.



You can play an MMO as a single player--I do it in LOTRO all the time as well as Guild Wars, so you can have a single player experience if you want. Some things require more people to be involved. Can you imagine the Battle of Geonosis as a single Jedi or Clone trooper? Those are the times where having friends comes in handy for a huge battle like that. No matter how good the AI of party members is, people almost always are better. To answer someone else's question, if a bunch of people are all talking to an NPC at once, each person gets a conversation based on what step in a quest they're on individually. The game engine can handle that with no problem.



I'm just hoping the game is more PvE oriented than PvP. While PvP can be fun at times, I feel a lot more involved in the PvE story.

[LdyShayna]

Jae Onasi wrote...

It's not the fans that drive game development, it's the dollars.  

Yeah.  It's indirectly related to fans, but not really directly related, many times.

You can play an MMO as a single player--I do it in LOTRO all the time as well as Guild Wars, so you can have a single player experience if you want.

Nope.  I have played several MMOS 'singleplayer'.  It's just not the same experience.  It's...Ok.  Can be an amusing way to spend my time for a while, but not nearly the same or an even exchange for it.  Yes, I know what BioWare is promising.  I remain deeply skeptical, but willing to be convinced, I suppose, if only because a lot of people I respect and like have put a lot of work into trying to make it work.  If it weren't for said people, I would have written it off long ago, honestly.

I'm just hoping the game is more PvE oriented than PvP. While PvP can be fun at times, I feel a lot more involved in the PvE story.

I never play PvP, but I'm not keen on the MMO thing to begin with, so I'm doubtful that they care much about my opinion on this either way.  

[the_one_54321]

They made TOR. Sorry to those that wanted KotOR3. I probably would have preferred KotOR3. I may or may not get TOR, depending on a lot of things.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 février 2010 - 08:46 .

[LdyShayna]

the_one_54321 wrote...

They made TOR. Sorry to those that wanted KotOR3.

Here's some more salt, in case you ran out while rubbing it in.   

[the_one_54321]

Edit added.

[Mordaedil]

TOR will be enjoyable for what it is, but it ain't no KoTOR 3, dammit.



What if I want to write in a secret fan-fiction about how I sex up Bastilla?

[twincast]

Other than those darn lightsaber handles the toons can't wrap their hands around I'm looking forward to TOR.

(I'm not too keen on the male proportions either and in a weird twist of fate the female walk this time is not identical to the male one, but actually too girly - read: oversexualized. Can't they find a middle ground? ... 'Tis been a while, maybe they have by now...)

And I'm really not an MMO person. An occasional session of Champions Online is fun, but every other MMO so far has left me totally bored if tried, uninterested if not.



That said, I'd prefer a proper conclusion to KotOR and thus KotOR3.

[twincast]

double post

Modifié par twincast, 09 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[12ght91]

Jae Onasi wrote...

It's not the fans that drive game development, it's the dollars.

Yes, however its the fans that buy the games. And given how much they changed ME2 because of what the fans said (too much in my opinion), its worth letting them know we want KOTOR 3. Without fans, there's no dollars.

You can play an MMO as a single player

Why? Surely to god, MMOs are for multiplayer, proper RPGs are for single player.

the_one_54321 wrote...

They made TOR. Sorry to those that wanted KotOR3.

Nooooooo...really?  Wow, that makes KOTOR 3 an absolute impossibility then, doesn't it?

Modifié par 12ght91, 09 février 2010 - 09:31 .

[Satanicfirewraith]

Wrath of Doom wrote...

All the anti-social recluses here are against any MMO or multiplayer experience. Instead of voicing your irrelevant opinions here, you guys should just stay home with your excessive eye liner and piercings and /wrists with some razor blades. The world would be better off without you retarded EMOs.

First of all, Not liking crappy mmo games dont make us Emo anymore then likeing and pretending you are your character makes you one... (tho in that case you make my argument for me about being emo)

Its personal choice.
I have played WOW and FF mmo and I hated both. No real story, (hello its a frelling rpg so why the **** is there no god damn story to it?!?) If I get a god damn rpg I expect a frelling deep story. Cant do that in an mmo. period.

Secondly, I for one refuse to play ANY mmo that makes me pay to play it AFTER actually buying the gad damn game!
As TOR has stated it will be pay to play that clears it off of my list of EVER WANTING. (plus its EA, so if it dont do well, the servers get shut down and the game is useless cept as a coster! Hellgate London anyone?)

Also he purpose of an MMO is to eat up all your time meaning you would be sitting in your mothers basement spending all your time on the computer you bought or had mommy bought instead of paying rent.

As for your last comment.... well Not off of us have mommy washing our nickers like you because your a 40 year old virgin who refuses to leave mommys basement because then you'd find out that real life sucks and money matters.
Then maybe people who think mmo are ZOMG THE BESTIST THING EVER would realize having to pay for a game you already paid for is the most retarded thing ever.

Modifié par Satanicfirewraith, 09 février 2010 - 10:51 .

[12ght91]

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Wrath of Doom wrote...

All the anti-social recluses here are against any MMO or multiplayer experience. Instead of voicing your irrelevant opinions here, you guys should just stay home with your excessive eye liner and piercings and /wrists with some razor blades. The world would be better off without you retarded EMOs.

First of all, Not liking crappy mmo games dont make us Emo anymore then likeing and pretending you are your character makes you one... (tho in that case you make my argument for me about being emo)

Its personal choice.
I have played WOW and FF mmo and I hated both. No real story, (hello its a frelling rpg so why the **** is there no god damn story to it?!?) If I get a god damn rpg I expect a frelling deep story. Cant do that in an mmo. period.

Secondly, I for one refuse to play ANY mmo that makes me pay to play it AFTER actually buying the gad damn game!
As TOR has stated it will be pay to play that clears it off of my list of EVER WANTING. (plus its EA, so if it dont do well, the servers get shut down and the game is useless cept as a coster! Hellgate London anyone?)

Also he purpose of an MMO is to eat up all your time meaning you would be sitting in your mothers basement spending all your time on the computer you bought or had mommy bought instead of paying rent.

As for your last comment.... well Not off of us have mommy washing our nickers like you because your a 40 year old virgin who refuses to leave mommys basement because then you'd find out that real life sucks and money matters.
Then maybe people who think mmo are ZOMG THE BESTIST THING EVER would realize having to pay for a game you already paid for is the most retarded thing ever.

Good lord, you really hate MMOs! lol. I've never played an MMO so I can't say that I dislike them, I'm just not interested. Have they really said its pay to play? Or are you just assuming? I was still holding out a tiny bit of hope that it would at least be free (though I'm thinkg for console - I don't think it's even coming to console anyway). Though I suppose once EA got their talons on BioWare, there wasn't much hope anyway  As far as I know, though, you pay monthly because of the amount of updates and new story content, etc. So as long as it's kept updated and running smoothly, a small fee wouldn't be too unreasonable. But I can't afford it anyway.

[twincast]

He's just assuming, but it's the natural assumption.

People who adamantly believe it's gonna be free are just either fooling themselves or plain stupid.

It would be the first big budget MMO (of a known IP no less!) that's F2P if it were. Well, other than D&DO that turned from subscription to F2P to stay afloat.

[Jax Sparrow]

LdyShayna... what 'I' want you to visualize is irrelevant to what I suggested.  Maybe they have yet to announce plans for a KOTOR3.  Tomorrow Lucasarts may ask them if they wish to do it.  However, I do agree that Lucasarts seems to be the problem as they seemed to have been the problem for KOTOR2.  

Which, is why I tend to believe some odd editor's claim that the Mass Effect series was basically KOTOR3.  So if you want another KOTOR3? I suggest you play Mass Effect 1 and 2... unless the title "star wars" and "Jedi" are a deal breaker for you.  In which case - *shrugs and points to his game tags*

[the_one_54321]

12ght91 wrote...
Wow, that makes KOTOR 3 an absolute impossibility then, doesn't it?

Probably. As it would take attention away from their MMO subscriptions.

[LdyShayna]

Jax Sparrow wrote...
 I suggest you play Mass Effect 1 and 2... unless the title "star wars" and "Jedi" are a deal breaker for you.  

No, that's no the issue (I like Star Wars, but I'm not locked into that).  I would prefer to see the characters I liked so much from KotOR return, and get some real closure on the fate of my character(s).  I figure that the hand wave snippet on their fate is all I will get, though.

 I tried out Mass Effect 1.  I enjoyed it mostly, but too "shooter" for my tastes along with a few other taste issues.  From what I've read, Mass Effect 2 is even more so, so I'm giving it a pass.

Modifié par LdyShayna, 10 février 2010 - 12:02 .

[Satanicfirewraith]

12ght91 wrote...

Satanicfirewraith wrote...

Wrath of Doom wrote...

All the anti-social recluses here are against any MMO or multiplayer experience. Instead of voicing your irrelevant opinions here, you guys should just stay home with your excessive eye liner and piercings and /wrists with some razor blades. The world would be better off without you retarded EMOs.

First of all, Not liking crappy mmo games dont make us Emo anymore then likeing and pretending you are your character makes you one... (tho in that case you make my argument for me about being emo)

Its personal choice.
I have played WOW and FF mmo and I hated both. No real story, (hello its a frelling rpg so why the **** is there no god damn story to it?!?) If I get a god damn rpg I expect a frelling deep story. Cant do that in an mmo. period.

Secondly, I for one refuse to play ANY mmo that makes me pay to play it AFTER actually buying the gad damn game!
As TOR has stated it will be pay to play that clears it off of my list of EVER WANTING. (plus its EA, so if it dont do well, the servers get shut down and the game is useless cept as a coster! Hellgate London anyone?)

Also he purpose of an MMO is to eat up all your time meaning you would be sitting in your mothers basement spending all your time on the computer you bought or had mommy bought instead of paying rent.

As for your last comment.... well Not off of us have mommy washing our nickers like you because your a 40 year old virgin who refuses to leave mommys basement because then you'd find out that real life sucks and money matters.
Then maybe people who think mmo are ZOMG THE BESTIST THING EVER would realize having to pay for a game you already paid for is the most retarded thing ever.

Good lord, you really hate MMOs! lol. I've never played an MMO so I can't say that I dislike them, I'm just not interested. Have they really said its pay to play? Or are you just assuming? I was still holding out a tiny bit of hope that it would at least be free (though I'm thinkg for console - I don't think it's even coming to console anyway). Though I suppose once EA got their talons on BioWare, there wasn't much hope anyway  As far as I know, though, you pay monthly because of the amount of updates and new story content, etc. So as long as it's kept updated and running smoothly, a small fee wouldn't be too unreasonable. But I can't afford it anyway.

Actually, I dont hate them I hate you have to continue to pay for the right to play the game.
I'll tell EA/BW what, if they GIVE SW:TOR away free of charge, then I wouldn't be against paying a monthly fee... because the game is free, but I know that they will try and chage 50-60 bucks for it then tack on a 10-25 buck a month surcharge to actually beable to play the game.

I was actually lucky and found a private server that was free of charge to play wow on, and had 2 lv. 80 characters..... and I  after 200+ hrs have yet to find a actual story in wow.

And I am sorry but playing a mmo alone sucks, and alot of the time is impossible because of the setup.
They lack anything fun.
If I am going to drop 50+ hours on a rpg, I want a god damn story with it, not mindless kill xx amount of yy creature for zz quest giver.....

So for me give me KOTOR III. at least it will have an actual story and be worth the money!!

[Mordaedil]

LdyShayna wrote...

Jax Sparrow wrote...
 I suggest you play Mass Effect 1 and 2... unless the title "star wars" and "Jedi" are a deal breaker for you.  

No, that's no the issue (I like Star Wars, but I'm not locked into that).  I would prefer to see the characters I liked so much from KotOR return, and get some real closure on the fate of my character(s).  I figure that the hand wave snippet on their fate is all I will get, though.

 I tried out Mass Effect 1.  I enjoyed it mostly, but too "shooter" for my tastes along with a few other taste issues.  From what I've read, Mass Effect 2 is even more so, so I'm giving it a pass.

That, at least, makes two of us.