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[12ght91]

Someone said you can play an MMO single-player. Does that just mean play it will NPC party and ignore other players, or can it actually be played offline? I know almost nothing about MMOs. I know the point of MMOs is to play with other people, but I just wondered.

Also, 84 votes  social.bioware.com/1382154/polls/1889/  If only it were that simple 

Modifié par 12ght91, 11 février 2010 - 05:14 .

[Humanoid_Taifun]

12ght91 wrote...

Someone said you can play an MMO single-player. Does that just mean play it will NPC party and ignore other players, or can it actually be played offline? I know almost nothing about MMOs. I know the point of MMOs is to play with other people, but I just wondered.

No, they mean running around by yourself and ignoring all the childish behavior from players around you (jumping up and down, trying to tea-bag fallen sith warriors, spamming the channels with pleas for a new weapon, ambushing you (yes, try to ignore the guy with his blade in your neck) ... )

[LdyShayna]

12ght91 wrote...

Someone said you can play an MMO single-player. Does that just mean play it will NPC party and ignore other players, or can it actually be played offline? 

It's not playing it offline.  In most MMOs I have tried out, there are 'solo-able' quests where it is possible to defeat the enemies and complete quest objectives without playing in the party.  Most quest lines, however, funnel you towards bosses or dungeons that you must be in a party to continue playing the story (or force yourself to ignore the story and continue on other quests, coming back after you're well above level and thus are no longer getting experience from defeating the critters nor use the items you get as rewards).

This assumes, of course, that high level players aren't plowing through and killing all of the PCs (or all of the NPCs in non-PVP servers), that someone isn't already killing all of the critters you need to kill, that you can ignore all of the OOC chatter and naked characters running around screaming what profanities that can get around any filters, and people otherwise mature but who give away story spoilers in world or area chat while asking for pointers.  Things like that really negatively impact the whole experience for me.

So yes, you can sometimes solo these things, but (as noted) I don't personally find it a replacement for a true singleplayer experience.

[Jax Sparrow]

In MMO terminology, I think LdyShayna is referring to Player-versus-Environment {PvE} quests which generally does funnel you towards Group-versus-Environment or Player-versus-Player {PvP} quests. However, each MMO is different in how they organize this. Final Fantasy XI is almost completely GvE. WoW is a Heavily PvE game until you hit max level and then its GvE gallore with a splash of PvE if that is your thing. Warhammer is dynamic with new characters experiencing heavy PvE with some PvP and a splash of PvP. Yet, by endgame it is heavily cooperative PvP.



I believe I heard BioWare intends for SW:TOR players to have a small "team" of interactive NPCs that you gain via role playing like in DA or ME. I would suggest reading the information they have on the TOR website so far but yes the point of an Online Game is to play with other actual players. At the very least sign up for beta and they might give you an opportunity to test and play the game for free for a bit.

[12ght91]

LdyShayna wrote...

12ght91 wrote...

Someone said you can play an MMO single-player. Does that just mean play it will NPC party and ignore other players, or can it actually be played offline? 

It's not playing it offline.  In most MMOs I have tried out, there are 'solo-able' quests where it is possible to defeat the enemies and complete quest objectives without playing in the party.  Most quest lines, however, funnel you towards bosses or dungeons that you must be in a party to continue playing the story (or force yourself to ignore the story and continue on other quests, coming back after you're well above level and thus are no longer getting experience from defeating the critters nor use the items you get as rewards).

This assumes, of course, that high level players aren't plowing through and killing all of the PCs (or all of the NPCs in non-PVP servers), that someone isn't already killing all of the critters you need to kill, that you can ignore all of the OOC chatter and naked characters running around screaming what profanities that can get around any filters, and people otherwise mature but who give away story spoilers in world or area chat while asking for pointers.  Things like that really negatively impact the whole experience for me.

So yes, you can sometimes solo these things, but (as noted) I don't personally find it a replacement for a true singleplayer experience.

Oh good, sound....fun   That's what I thought anyway.


Jax, I have signed up for the beta, ages ago, and I didn't hear back unfortunately. I intend to give TOR a try if possible - my problem is not with them making an MMO, its with them making an MMO INSTEAD of KOTOR3, with seeming no intentions of actually finishing off the storyline (though it was actually Obsidian who attempted to make KOTOR an actual story series by leaving the end of 2 open, the first seemed stand-alone to me).

For a company that makes RPGs, for them to NOT make an RPG from their, arguably, most popular franchise is somewhat frustrating

[Vansen Elamber]

Check this out for actual in game footage from the Bioware devlopers.



http://www.swtor.com...per-walkthrough



What is quite astonishing about this walkthrough is the fact that Bioware has developed a cinematic system that will include all players that are on the mission. The walkthrough shows a Sith Warrior and a Bounty Hunter on the same mission and the demo starts out with just one of them and then when the other player joins in the cinenatic conversations then expand to include the other player. Quite astonishing when you begin to think about how the story can unfold for a group of players all at the same time...

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I wonder what's going to happen if you experience a disc during one of the cinematics... Will the quest be broken?

[LdyShayna]

Vansen Elamber wrote...

Check this out for actual in game footage from the Bioware devlopers.

http://www.swtor.com...per-walkthrough

Hmmm...

I was aware of the usage of the Mass Effect style of dialog.  Going over my thoughts on that is beating a dead horse, though, so I won't indulge again.  If they were to make a KotOR 3, I hope they would reconsider this decision.

That aside, there are some questions that occur to me after watching this.  Perhps those following more closely know the answer.  Or perhaps I'll just have to wait.  No biggie, though if anyone knows....

 - If the idea is to make it feel more 'heroic' by having  n vs PC combat, does that mean that large areas where mutliple PCs are expected to adventure will be chock full of enemies?  IE, looking at the bounty hunter's combat zone shown here, is that going to scale up in areas where multiple PCs are going to be adventuring?  This could get frustrating in lgithly populated servers, though. 

- In the multiplayer cutscene, how does it determine who has what decision points?  Is it by class?  By who is party leader?  The crew greeted the Sith PC there fairly specifically.  Is this because he was the party leader that was a Sith (IE, the initial lines would have been slightly different had he been non-Sith), or does this mission require a Sith and that person is address initially regardless?

If based on party leader, persumably if they drop  then a default party leader is automatically designated, so the NPCs will switch to address the new one ("Did you see that?  He's scampered!"   "So he has.  Ummm...I guess you should address me now" though likely this will be done without any comment, of course).  If an area has min requirements by class, this could cause issues if  the member of the team of that class drops.  On the other hand, different dialog for different party leaders of different classes would be a lot of extra work.

And this is not to be down on the idea.  Just wondering about how different things are and will be handled.  Mostly, admittedly, I wonder about how companions are handled, but I believe I'll be waiting quite a while to hear more on that.

Considering how this works - with other people's characters making major story decisions and such - I'd be even less likely to party up with strangers in such things than other MMos I've tried where I was really only interested in how effective they may be in combat.  I'd want to know who they are or at least more about the kind of character they play before joining up with them, which is a further restriction on my willingness to play. 

I am willing to be convinced that this is a game I could enjoy at some level, but I fear I start from a position of skepticism with this one.  *ponders*  On the other hand, I suppose they needn't really consider what I, as a singleplayer fan, would prefer to see or worry about with their MMO.  This is, primarily, why I'm commenting here rather than on the SW: TOR forums, I suppose.  Heh. 

Modifié par LdyShayna, 12 février 2010 - 08:53 .

[12ght91]

Capt. Obvious wrote...

You people need some real taste.....

You clearly have absolutely nothing to add to the discussion, and lack the ability to string together a coherant sentence, so why are you even bothering to check back here just to keep up the childish attempts at provoking other posters? 'MMOs rule!!!! Yeeaahh!!!!!', 'Yeaah!!! MMOs FTW!!!!!'? Grow up. We're perfectly within our rights to dislike MMOs - its called opinion - not that everyone here does.

 As for the discussion wheel in KOTOR3, I would like that. It would need improving - ie, the options actually relate to what comes out of the players mouth, unlike a lot of MEs dialogue. Sadly that hasn't improved from ME1 to 2, though thankfully the dialogue itself has. I much prefer that to selecting from a whole list of options (though knowing exactly whats going to be said has its merits too). If the game wasn't voiced then I suppose there's not much choice. That was my only problem with KOTOR and Dragon Age - not voiced.

Modifié par 12ght91, 13 février 2010 - 07:43 .

[GnusmasTHX]

A.

A.

A.

[RetrOldSchool]

Oh please Bioware give us KOTOR III!
I have of course voted in the poll, I can see that those in favor of a KOTOR III are in a crushing majority

On a side note, with 2 kids I dont have the time for a MMO, but I hope TOR is good for you lucky bast*rds who will have that kind of time.

[banshee768]

I would prefer KoToR3 any day. The trouble with MMO's is that everyone wants to be special (like you are in a singleplayer game). However, as the saying goes, when everyone is special, no one is. That is the fundamental flaw with MMORPG's. Nobody wants to be just another guy.



Also, I wonder how they will prevent everyone from rolling a Jedi or Sith? I would roll a Jedi without thinking about it. And I'm pretty sure a large amount of people would do the same. Which would kind of ruin it, because Jedi and Sith are rather rare. And how will they balance Jedi/Sith vs. other classes? In the lore, a Jedi can beat a platoon of droids blindfolded. That's a bit overpowered



But I'm looking forward to following the development, reading the reviews and follow the fan-critique. But play it? I think not.

[Satanicfirewraith]

KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III KOTOR III



BW Just give us KOTOR III !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Busomjack]

I don't like games that I have to play on other people's time, so KOTOR III for me please.

[SkullandBonesmember]

[sarcasm]Wow, I really can't believe it. KOTOR 3 is winning. But I'm sure since the people who post here make up such a small minority of Bioware's fanbase, therefor it's very logical to assume more want an MMO and this poll means absolutely nothing.[/sarcasm]

[Busomjack]

Even though I am not interested in KOTOR, I do wish it the best for two reasons.



1.It's a Bioware game, Bioware rocks and anything that puts more money in their pockets means more great Bioware games in the future.



2.This may be the only game that has a chance of taking down WOW, a game I loathe and am sick of hearing about.

[budbucks]

I Don't care for T.O.R, I want my Kotor III! Kotor I was EPIC! Kotor II wasnt as epic.. but I Love those games! I want Bioware to tie up loose ends not answered, like where's revan?! the exile?! the other great characters; Bastilla, Mission Vao, HK-47?! what are the True Sith Like?! These would be answered in a third kotor! Not by This MMO that could easily ruin the Kotor Story line, and the great fan base it's created over the years.

I Dont think its too much too ask for bioware to give its fans what they want, we've been loyal and have waited since 2005 for kotor III, it just seems 5 years later they made the wrong choice. I'll Be gutted if there isn't a Kotor 3 down the line! not a MMO that stuffs 3,4,5,6,etc together! COME ON BIOWARE! MAKE. KOTOR. 3!

[Vyel]

I dont understand the position that people dont want TOR because you'll be saving the galaxy with millions of others. I guess I look at it differently, because, in KOTOR, you did the exact same thing that 5 million other people did as well.
But if you can give me 8 seperate BioWare games at once, to see and develop the Smuggler, the Jedi, the Sith, the Agent, the Trooper, et al, then I have to go with the MMOG.
It's odd that people will trust BioWare to do a great KOTORIII (despite no assurance that they would even do KOTORIII, I mean, at least we know for sure BioWare will be involved in this project), yet dont trust them to implement the same story telling into a MMOG.

Modifié par Vyel, 24 février 2010 - 02:53 .

[lobotomy42]

The problems that Bioware is trying to solve in TOR with multi-player and story-telling are interesting, but ultimately more trouble than they're worth. Ultimately the point of an MMO is to play with other people and make your own story - no matter how good Bioware's writers are, you can't control the experience in an MMO. There are just too many things (instancing, disconnects, real-world conversations) that take you out of the experience of the "in-game" story in an MMO. TOR might end up being a success in spite of itself.



I'd like to see a KotOR 3 as Obsidian would have made it (following directly on from KotOR 2.) Otherwise, I'm content to let KotOR die.

[Gorthaur the Cruel]

I like the idea of Kotor 3, I really wish they would of gone that path. But they've made their decision and as much as I dislike mmo's I think I'll give it a try, for the heck of it.

[12ght91]

Vyel wrote...

I dont understand the position that people dont want TOR because you'll be saving the galaxy with millions of others. I guess I look at it differently, because, in KOTOR, you did the exact same thing that 5 million other people did as well.
But if you can give me 8 seperate BioWare games at once, to see and develop the Smuggler, the Jedi, the Sith, the Agent, the Trooper, et al, then I have to go with the MMOG.
It's odd that people will trust BioWare to do a great KOTORIII (despite no assurance that they would even do KOTORIII, I mean, at least we know for sure BioWare will be involved in this project), yet dont trust them to implement the same story telling into a MMOG.

I think you're missing the point. It has nothing to do with not trusting BioWare; we just don't want an MMO. Also entirely missing the point of being the lone hero thing - yes millions of people did the same thing, and millions of people were the one person who did it. Not quite sure how you can't see how different that is.

 I don't agree with your statement that this is 8 games in one. I hardly think so - was Dragon Age several games in one, just because you could choose different origins? No, of course not. If you think that the entire story, NPCs and villains will all be entirely different depending on what class you choose, I feel you are somewhat deluded and will be sorely disappointed.

Also, i don't think a single person has mentioned the storytelling in TOR, have they?

[StreetlightEagle]

I need KOTOR 3 seeing as number 1 was my favourite game of all time and I completely despise MMO's