968 réponses à ce sujet

[Kolaris8472]

Lord Atlia wrote...

An example is Tali (ugh didn't want to bring her back into this) around Male Shepard she displays obvious horny and lustful body language that she does not display around Female Shepard (see Kelly Chambers for citation) which points towards her being straight.  

What, where? I have not noticed any single animation or line of dialog different from Male to Female up until the very end of the third conversation. 

As for Kelley Chambers, that's out-of-game voodoo magic as far as I'm concerned anyway, put in place to help people that aren't familiar with the story or characters experience a romance subplot. 

I don't buy that she's some intergalactic psych major who can read Drell, Turian, and Quarian (what) tells better than Shephard him/herself, especially when she's known them for 1/20th the time in 1/50th the capacity. 

[Brahlis]

DaeJi wrote...
Some of them don't, like Samara. However, in the interest of giving players as many choices as possible when it comes to designing their Shepard, perhaps all official love interests should be open to both genders.

Or they (existing squadmates) could not, since they haven't been in the other two games.

Modifié par Brahlis, 07 février 2010 - 08:54 .

[Twitchmonkey]

This is a very strange response. I'm fine with the supporting cast having their respective defined sexual preferences, but Shepard really should be malleable to what the player wants them to be, that's the point of RPGs, isn't it?



Very poor reasoning here.

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...

Naltair wrote...
That does not mean they should automatically feel the same way about you.

Some of them don't, like Samara. However, in the interest of giving players as many choices as possible when it comes to designing their Shepard, perhaps all official love interests should be open to both genders.

I think the interest should be in both choice and story, if they just don't want to love you does not mean they don;t want to be great friends with you, sometimes some things are just not meant to be.  I can hold a candle for Councilor Anderson all night long but I don't see him changing just because I want him to.

I understand your point, but I think there is something to be said for characters that have their own motivations, morals, and ideals.  That somethings are not changeable about them makes them seem less like love puppets and more like real people.  The strength of the characters is in how real they seem and how they make us love them or hate them, changing an aspect of them sort of changes who the characters are.

I put it this way, changing Samara to be romanceable changes a pretty vital aspect of her relationship to Shepard and who she is as an individual.  I prefer what she is now as opposed to I want to do her, BioWare fix this please.

[Khavos]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

This is a very strange response. I'm fine with the supporting cast having their respective defined sexual preferences, but Shepard really should be malleable to what the player wants them to be, that's the point of RPGs, isn't it?

Very poor reasoning here.

They don't want Shep to be malleable to what you want him to be.  They want Shep a certain way to fit their "iconic character" BS. 

It's best to stop thinking of it as a roleplaying game and more like being a second unit director on a film.  You can tell an actor to play it hard, or play it soft, but ultimately?  It ain't your story, and that's the limit of your input.  

[Naltair]

Kolaris8472 wrote...
What, where? I have not noticed any single animation or line of dialog different from Male to Female up until the very end of the third conversation. 

As for Kelley Chambers, that's out-of-game voodoo magic as far as I'm concerned anyway, put in place to help people that aren't familiar with the story or characters experience a romance subplot. 

I don't buy that she's some intergalactic psych major who can read Drell, Turian, and Quarian (what) tells better than Shephard him/herself, especially when she's known them for 1/20th the time in 1/50th the capacity. 

You don't have to buy it, but her observations are pretty much spot on.

It does not mater if you don't like she is right.

[Kolaris8472]

Naltair wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...
What, where? I have not noticed any single animation or line of dialog different from Male to Female up until the very end of the third conversation. 

As for Kelley Chambers, that's out-of-game voodoo magic as far as I'm concerned anyway, put in place to help people that aren't familiar with the story or characters experience a romance subplot. 

I don't buy that she's some intergalactic psych major who can read Drell, Turian, and Quarian (what) tells better than Shephard him/herself, especially when she's known them for 1/20th the time in 1/50th the capacity. 

You don't have to buy it, but her observations are pretty much spot on.

It does not mater if you don't like she is right.

It doesn't change the fact that its all off-camera exposition either. 

[Brahlis]

Khavos wrote...
They don't want Shep to be malleable to what you want him to be.  They want Shep a certain way to fit their "iconic character" BS. 

It's best to stop thinking of it as a roleplaying game and more like being a second unit director on a film.  You can tell an actor to play it hard, or play it soft, but ultimately?  It ain't your story, and that's the limit of your input.  

No, you're wrong. Most people, myself included, don't really care if Shepard can be gay or not.

What we DO have a problem with is people trying to pressure the devs into changing current squadmates into bisexial/homosexual people to fit that. That's garbage.

Modifié par Brahlis, 07 février 2010 - 09:02 .

[Naltair]

Kolaris8472 wrote...
It doesn't change the fact that its all off-camera exposition either. 

I agree whole heartedly, but she is correct in her observations even if she is just a mouth piece for the game to tell you, "hey this is how blank feels about you."

[DaeJi]

Naltair wrote...Councilor Anderson all night long but I don't see him changing just because I want him to.

I understand your point, but I think there is something to be said for characters that have their own motivations, morals, and ideals.  That somethings are not changeable about them makes them seem less like love puppets and more like real people.  The strength of the characters is in how real they seem and how they make us love them or hate them, changing an aspect of them sort of changes who the characters are.

I put it this way, changing Samara to be romanceable changes a pretty vital aspect of her relationship to Shepard and who she is as an individual.  I prefer what she is now as opposed to I want to do her, BioWare fix this please.

I'm not talking about Samara being a romance option. I agree with out, she is better not being one. What I and others are saying is that it may be better for all of the love interests (in this case, Jacob, Garrus, Thane, Miranda, Jack, and Tali) to be options for both genders. They would still have their own motivations, morals, ideals, etc. but would be more open romantically. I do not feel that altering that would alter the character as a whole, just that one aspect that would not bleed into anything else about them.

[Kolaris8472]

Naltair wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...
It doesn't change the fact that its all off-camera exposition either. 

I agree whole heartedly, but she is correct in her observations even if she is just a mouth piece for the game to tell you, "hey this is how blank feels about you."

But its for completely arbitrary reasons. If they wanted there to be obvious signs or tells that someone is into you, they should have done that on-camera to develop the character, not just have one set of dialog and then rely on their super-empathetic-cheerleader-secretary to point out the (invisible) differences in the relationships. Its incredibly sloppy. 

[Twitchmonkey]

Brahlis wrote...

No, you're wrong. Most people, myself included, don't really care if Shepard can be gay or not.

What we DO have a problem with is people trying to pressure the devs into changing current squadmates into bisexial/homosexual people to fit that. That's garbage.

They both would be wrong. In every way Shepard is limited in the actions he can take, he becomes less of the player's character, and ME becomes less of an RPG. This is just one way of that happening, but it certainly isnt' a good sign.

However, I agree that forcing members of your squad into bisexual or homosexual roles isn't much better.

Shepard should be able to be whichever sexuality you determine they should be, that doesn't necessarily mean that your party has to have someone to satisfy those desires.

[Naltair]

I am not praising it, just saying it is there.



There are better ways of doing it, an added bit of cutscene after there arrival on the Normandy would have been enough something to stir the sexual tension.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Brahlis wrote...

Khavos wrote...
They don't want Shep to be malleable to what you want him to be.  They want Shep a certain way to fit their "iconic character" BS. 

It's best to stop thinking of it as a roleplaying game and more like being a second unit director on a film.  You can tell an actor to play it hard, or play it soft, but ultimately?  It ain't your story, and that's the limit of your input.  

No, you're wrong. Most people, myself included, don't really care if Shepard can be gay or not.

What we DO have a problem with is people trying to pressure the devs into changing current squadmates into bisexial/homosexual people to fit that. That's garbage.

Think of it less like "changing" and more like "revealing another layer of the character." At least, that's what it SHOULD be. If Garrus was bisexual, that in no way shape or form changes who he is as a person; it just means that occasionally he likes to do it with dudes as well as girls. Having said that, I personally think that ME2 should have shipped with bisexuality present in some of the male squadmates already. I can understand why busting out a DLC patch that suddenly "makes" a character show homosexual interest seems a bit odd. I think they could handle it, though... for example, with Garrus, all they really need to do is repeat the same script again as with femShep. Or if people need an explanation as to why he's "suddenly bisexual", just have a line or two saying that it took him a bit longer to come to terms with his feelings due to his usual preference for women.

So I sort of agree that SUDDEN GAY DLC isn't the greatest idea, mostly because some of the crew should have been written as bisexual to begin with (ie they should have gotten it right the first time), but they could still make it work. Again, it's not so much changing the character, it's revealing more about them.


EDIT: Also, I suspect that a lot of the pro same-sex players would be somewhat mollified if, say, there were options to flirt with Jacob/Garrus/etc but Jacob/Garrus/etc turned you down. That would also go some distance to satisfying both sides; the people pointing out about existing characterization and "not everyone should be gay/straight for Shepard," would be affirmed, while players wanting a gay Shepard could at least play their character that way. It's not an idea solution, but it would work until ME3 and we get a gay party member. ;-)

Modifié par UsagiVindaloo, 07 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[Naltair]

DaeJi wrote...
I'm not talking about Samara being a romance option. I agree with out, she is better not being one. What I and others are saying is that it may be better for all of the love interests (in this case, Jacob, Garrus, Thane, Miranda, Jack, and Tali) to be options for both genders. They would still have their own motivations, morals, ideals, etc. but would be more open romantically. I do not feel that altering that would alter the character as a whole, just that one aspect that would not bleed into anything else about them.

In the scheme of things you are correct it has little effect because the romances have very little effect on other characters or even the narrative, although they should.  I don't mean to be callous but I am not fan of catering to every whim and desire, I think the options should be there if that is the direction you want to go, but I don't think everyone should be.  I think pick who you believe as the dev makes the most sense for such "romance" roles and go from there.

But i think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Naltair wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
I'm not talking about Samara being a romance option. I agree with out, she is better not being one. What I and others are saying is that it may be better for all of the love interests (in this case, Jacob, Garrus, Thane, Miranda, Jack, and Tali) to be options for both genders. They would still have their own motivations, morals, ideals, etc. but would be more open romantically. I do not feel that altering that would alter the character as a whole, just that one aspect that would not bleed into anything else about them.

In the scheme of things you are correct it has little effect because the romances have very little effect on other characters or even the narrative, although they should.  I don't mean to be callous but I am not fan of catering to every whim and desire, I think the options should be there if that is the direction you want to go, but I don't think everyone should be.  I think pick who you believe as the dev makes the most sense for such "romance" roles and go from there.

But i think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

Perhaps I'm speaking for other fans too much, but I imagine that even the option to flirt with a non-responsive same-sex squadmate would be a step up. In other words, fine, you may not want everyone open as a romance option, but it would be sort of cool to see Shepard try and get shot down. So let's say that, for whatever reason, you don't want to make the entire cast bisexual. You could always stick a flag on, say, Jacob where, if male Shepard attempts to flirt with him (ie using the same script as femShep) Jacob says, "sorry, no dudes." That would at least allow gay gamers to play a Shepard they can identify with and who identifies as gay (or bisexual) while still not hurting other players, the story, etc etc.

My two cents: I'd love the entire crew to be romanceable by both gendered Shepards, but if that wasn't possible, I'd want Miranda available for male Shep, Jacob for femShep, and Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane (?) for both genders (not sure of Thane as I haven't gotten to him yet, but Jack seems like she doesn't give a crap re: gender, Garrus already has the whole "I like you for your personality" script, and Tali... well, Tali is just that awesome XD)

[Naltair]

Jack turns down female Shepard, to my knowledge.



Again this is why an Interest/Romance choice on the left side would be useful you could do this and have the NPC respond accordingly.

[Naltair]

As an aside I have met many awesome nerdy shy chicks in my life like Tali, and most of them were not bisexual. I am not sure where this connotation comes from but it bewilders me.

[Twitchmonkey]

While I stick to the idea that we shouldn't make characters bi just because we can and it should make sense, I definitely support the option of getting shot down by squad members that don't share your feelings, as you said, at least it allows you to RP as a certain sexuality.

[Saskuatch]

I think naltair has over 400 posts in all these same sex threads.

[Kolaris8472]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Naltair wrote...

DaeJi wrote...
I'm not talking about Samara being a romance option. I agree with out, she is better not being one. What I and others are saying is that it may be better for all of the love interests (in this case, Jacob, Garrus, Thane, Miranda, Jack, and Tali) to be options for both genders. They would still have their own motivations, morals, ideals, etc. but would be more open romantically. I do not feel that altering that would alter the character as a whole, just that one aspect that would not bleed into anything else about them.

In the scheme of things you are correct it has little effect because the romances have very little effect on other characters or even the narrative, although they should.  I don't mean to be callous but I am not fan of catering to every whim and desire, I think the options should be there if that is the direction you want to go, but I don't think everyone should be.  I think pick who you believe as the dev makes the most sense for such "romance" roles and go from there.

But i think we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

Perhaps I'm speaking for other fans too much, but I imagine that even the option to flirt with a non-responsive same-sex squadmate would be a step up. In other words, fine, you may not want everyone open as a romance option, but it would be sort of cool to see Shepard try and get shot down. So let's say that, for whatever reason, you don't want to make the entire cast bisexual. You could always stick a flag on, say, Jacob where, if male Shepard attempts to flirt with him (ie using the same script as femShep) Jacob says, "sorry, no dudes." That would at least allow gay gamers to play a Shepard they can identify with and who identifies as gay (or bisexual) while still not hurting other players, the story, etc etc.

My two cents: I'd love the entire crew to be romanceable by both gendered Shepards, but if that wasn't possible, I'd want Miranda available for male Shep, Jacob for femShep, and Jack, Garrus, Tali and Thane (?) for both genders (not sure of Thane as I haven't gotten to him yet, but Jack seems like she doesn't give a crap re: gender, Garrus already has the whole "I like you for your personality" script, and Tali... well, Tali is just that awesome XD)

I agree completely. There are some characters it could work for, others it wouldn't. You shouldn't alter the explicitly one-way swingers, but an option to at least try and be shot down would be a step up from not handling it at all. 

[CrystalCousland]

MacedonianWolf wrote...

People keep forgetting that Asari ARE NOT female, the way that they look and sound just make us percieve them as one.

Yes.
Wait.
Codex calls them an all-female species. They look female. Sound female. Refer to themselves as she. Have "daughters" only. Are referred to as "she". Have female sounding names frequently ending in 'a'. Work as female strippers.

Actually, I'll stop here, Codex quote should be enough ...

[Naltair]

Saskuatch wrote...

I think naltair has over 400 posts in all these same sex threads.

I find the topic interesting, others do too, thank you for joining.

[CommanderShawn]

there will not be any male on male crap in ME3 get over it  they can't make every character in the game gay, some people has to be straight , go have your own little same sex crap in real life and stop crying about it being in the game

Modifié par CommanderShawn, 07 février 2010 - 09:29 .

[Abirn]

Archereon wrote...

EA owns bioware now, that means no same sex relations anymore. They have to appeal to the largest possible audience, as its primary market is America, a nation where a large enough number of voters oppose gay marriage to keep it from happening, they have to appeal to their target audience.

By supporting fox spews you ****** off the group that opposes well idiocy.