968 réponses à ce sujet

[Khavos]

Deviija wrote...

Putting aside Liara and asari and the monogendered whatever, there is still KELLY in ME2. This suddenly allows for FemShep to be lesbian or bisexual. Somehow that is within the 'character constraints' for the Shepard character, yet it is not within the 'character constraints' for DudeShep to be gay or bisexual. That is the main point of irritation with Ray's explanation, as far as I see it.

Saying 'Kelly doesn't count' to the argument is silly. She does count.

Male Shepard is iconic, and making him gay would tarnish what Bioware considers to be iconic.

Female Shepard is an afterthought, and so therefore can be gay.

That's what Bioware's telling you.  I'm straight, and it bothers me.

Of course, it bothers me even more that they're taking a derivative space opera so seriously.  Did they actually think they were doing great writing here? 

[DeathCultArm]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
 The mako was in the first...Where is it now?

Blown up in the first Normandy - if you download the DLC you can even see it at the crash site! So yeah... Epic fail there.

Yeah b/c responding to apart of my post and not eveing adknowleding the topic is really showing I fail...yeah..ok.

[Naltair]

This thread is going in multiple directions at once.

[BrianWilly]

Myrmedus wrote...

People interested in same-sex romances in ME: Minority
People interested in opposite-sex romances in ME: Majority.

Are you so sure about that? :innocent:

http://social.biowar...898/polls/1777/
http://social.biowar...898/polls/1773/

[Khavos]

DeathCultArm wrote...

it seems like you have an issue with society, more than the game. People expect everyone to be so self-righteous and to jus tpretend that things like bias and what not don't exist.

Are you just as accepting of racial biases, out of curiosity? 

[Naltair]

BrianWilly wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

People interested in same-sex romances in ME: Minority
People interested in opposite-sex romances in ME: Majority.

Are you so sure about that? :innocent:

http://social.biowar...898/polls/1777/
http://social.biowar...898/polls/1773/

Online polls are hardly indicative of anything and cannot be used as evidence of any kind.

[DeathCultArm]

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

it seems like you have an issue with society, more than the game. People expect everyone to be so self-righteous and to jus tpretend that things like bias and what not don't exist.

Are you just as accepting of racial biases, out of curiosity? 

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

[Lord Atlia]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

It's always refreshing to see how intense these conversations become... we are not talking about a default hero with a default mate of the same gender.... we are talking about having a variety of optional LI's for both male and female sheps.
Still, the sheer thought of an optional LI of the same gender makes a lot of people so unhappy that they care enough to post against it...

It's just a game and if it makes players happy (yes it does), keehla.... why not give the player the option he likes to choose for his shep.

Is that so hard to accept?

Oh, and another thing. The discussion about minority or majority of the sexual orientation of the players (and aliens for that matter) seems extremely irrelevant. It's a roleplay-game. It's fun to play roles. Why not play the role of a female shep with a crush on one of her female squadmates. Nobody needs to be gay for that. Its a friggin' game...

That is because it is not as simple as that.  Some of the people against it are not against it because they are homophobes but it seems that people are not asking for a bisexual or homosexual character they are asking for all characters to be bisexual which would move the game 1 step away from being an interactive novel towards being a omnipotent god simulator like the Sims.  I have no problem with Zevran or Leliana but I do have problems with people that wanted Morrigan or Alistair to be gay because the authors didn't envision them this way.  Asking for all characters to be bisexual is the same as the people saying all characters should be straight.  Characters should have a sexual preference and develop relationships from there. That is how Bioware games have always worked, this is just a case when there were no bisexual or homosexual characters in the cast, there is no proof that it is for mainstream appeal, it could be the writers just didn't imagine any of the cast as bi or homosexual.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Naltair wrote...

Online polls are hardly indicative of anything and cannot be used as evidence of any kind.

But pure guesses can!


About "tarnishing" BioWare's icon... Where's that picture of Sheploo making out with Kaidan when you need it?

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 08 février 2010 - 03:10 .

[Naltair]

I think the big issue here is that BioWare when it came to ME1 thought it was fine to put two female like avatars in a sex scene but not fine to put two male avatars in a sex scene for whatever reason. They have yet to do this in the ME universe, from the tone and message of that reply in the interview I don't ever expect them too.



This just makes me a little sad, but I can see why it is done. One pairing is more acceptable to their "audience" than the other. Or at least they believe so.



Not right but that is what the writing on the wall says.

[Khavos]

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

it seems like you have an issue with society, more than the game. People expect everyone to be so self-righteous and to jus tpretend that things like bias and what not don't exist.

Are you just as accepting of racial biases, out of curiosity? 

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Yes, it does.  You said we should accept that things like bias exist.  I accept that they exist, but I don't accept that they're valid.  Do you?

[Monstruo696]

Lord Atlia wrote...

That is because it is not as simple as that.  Some of the people against it are not against it because they are homophobes but it seems that people are not asking for a bisexual or homosexual character they are asking for all characters to be bisexual which would move the game 1 step away from being an interactive novel towards being a omnipotent god simulator like the Sims.  I have no problem with Zevran or Leliana but I do have problems with people that wanted Morrigan or Alistair to be gay because the authors didn't envision them this way.  Asking for all characters to be bisexual is the same as the people saying all characters should be straight.  Characters should have a sexual preference and develop relationships from there. That is how Bioware games have always worked, this is just a case when there were no bisexual or homosexual characters in the cast, there is no proof that it is for mainstream appeal, it could be the writers just didn't imagine any of the cast as bi or homosexual.

WHAT?



NO, IS NOT POSSIBLE.

[Lamiea]

DeathCultArm wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
 The mako was in the first...Where is it now?

Blown up in the first Normandy - if you download the DLC you can even see it at the crash site! So yeah... Epic fail there.

Yeah b/c responding to apart of my post and not eveing adknowleding the topic is really showing I fail...yeah..ok.

You were making an argument that because somethings were not carried over gay romance should not be, the example of something that did not carry was the Mako. However, you failed as it did carry over - see, I did respond to your entire post afterall. 

[Naltair]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Naltair wrote...

Online polls are hardly indicative of anything and cannot be used as evidence of any kind.

But pure guesses can!


About tarnishing BioWare's icon... Where's that picture of Sheploo making out with Kaidan when you need it?

Conjecture and hypothesis make for good discussion an online poll without being done correctly and trying to negate bias in the question or poll takers is far less "scientific" or at least free of bias/tampering.  I am not saying just guessing is better but pointing to a poll as evidence of your stance especially one hosted on this site and probably marketed/targetd to those that think as you do is hardly compelling evidence.

[DeathCultArm]

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

it seems like you have an issue with society, more than the game. People expect everyone to be so self-righteous and to jus tpretend that things like bias and what not don't exist.

Are you just as accepting of racial biases, out of curiosity? 

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything.

Yes, it does.  You said we should accept that things like bias exist.  I accept that they exist, but I don't accept that they're valid.  Do you?

I never said bias was valid...now you're reaching.

[Khavos]

Naltair wrote...

I think the big issue here is that BioWare when it came to ME1 thought it was fine to put two female like avatars in a sex scene but not fine to put two male avatars in a sex scene for whatever reason. They have yet to do this in the ME universe, from the tone and message of that reply in the interview I don't ever expect them too.

This just makes me a little sad, but I can see why it is done. One pairing is more acceptable to their "audience" than the other. Or at least they believe so.

Not right but that is what the writing on the wall says.

Fox and plenty of idiot conservative commentators made a huge deal about the "alien rape simulator" that was Mass Effect 1.  Could you imagine the media apocalypse that would've issued from those outlets if there'd been two dudes kissing? 

[Khavos]

DeathCultArm wrote...

I never said bias was valid...now you're reaching.

If it's not valid, then why would you not be against it? 

[the_devils_aid]

SimonTheFrog wrote...
Oh, and another thing. The discussion about minority or majority of the sexual orientation of the players (and aliens for that matter) seems extremely irrelevant. It's a roleplay-game. It's fun to play roles. Why not play the role of a female shep with a crush on one of her female squadmates. Nobody needs to be gay for that. Its a friggin' game...

it is relevant. if the minority is very small (and it is) it is not worth the resources to add it into the game unless they have extra time and a character that fits with the standard gay sterotype.

of course, if we make it to this point in our history, we should have gene therapy, and thus this whole conversation is mute. you know as well as i do if every father could he would choose to eliminate this before the child is even born.

[DeathCultArm]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
 The mako was in the first...Where is it now?

Blown up in the first Normandy - if you download the DLC you can even see it at the crash site! So yeah... Epic fail there.

Yeah b/c responding to apart of my post and not eveing adknowleding the topic is really showing I fail...yeah..ok.

You were making an argument that because somethings were not carried over gay romance should not be, the example of something that did not carry was the Mako. However, you failed as it did carry over - see, I did respond to your entire post afterall. 

No the mako didn't carry over there is the hammerhead. And Liara didn't carry over..there's Kelly. makes perfect sense.

[Naltair]

Khavos wrote...

Naltair wrote...

I think the big issue here is that BioWare when it came to ME1 thought it was fine to put two female like avatars in a sex scene but not fine to put two male avatars in a sex scene for whatever reason. They have yet to do this in the ME universe, from the tone and message of that reply in the interview I don't ever expect them too.

This just makes me a little sad, but I can see why it is done. One pairing is more acceptable to their "audience" than the other. Or at least they believe so.

Not right but that is what the writing on the wall says.

Fox and plenty of idiot conservative commentators made a huge deal about the "alien rape simulator" that was Mass Effect 1.  Could you imagine the media apocalypse that would've issued from those outlets if there'd been two dudes kissing? 

Because despite how "bad" it may be our society considers two women making out more acceptable than two making out.  This is one of the bigger reasons why Liara and female Shepard get it on in the first place.

[DeathCultArm]

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

I never said bias was valid...now you're reaching.

If it's not valid, then why would you not be against it? 

B/C it doesn't matter how I feel about  the biad, BW needs to make decisons based on what they want to implement. Unlike many others I don't expect BW to cater to my needs, so it doesn't matter how I feel personally about any bias in regarding to the game.

[BrianWilly]

DeathCultArm wrote...

it seems like you have an issue with society, more than the game. People expect everyone to be so self-righteous and to jus tpretend that things like bias and what not don't exist. Does Bioware have to create a situation to adhere to every single individuals preference? I understand that some Mass Effect gamers may be ***, but that does not mean that Bioware should be forced to make that an option in all of their games.

Even if Liara was a female, and there was lesbian sex in ME...That doesn't mean they have to add it here as well.

That's your opinion.  But my point is that Bioware has already created many games that adhere to many situations, including gay gamers', and the world didn't end, neither did those games fail to sell.  They should not be afraid of doing so with this one.

Saying that Bioware should be afraid of some imaginary bias from imaginary ignorant people that has never been shown to affect the sales or publicity of any games, ever, is very flawed logic.

Which is why I keep asking for hard, visible evidence from anyone regarding any game that has lost sales due to any sort of controversy.  Seriously, anything.  Ever.  One single instance of this would be fine.  But the fact that there is none shows that there is no reason for Bioware to base their decisions on this obviously nonexistent impetus.

[DaeJi]

DeathCultArm wrote...



*sigh* This is exactly what I mean. It's hard to take the pro-*** romance side when they're never satisfied with anything.

The only thing we are not satisfied with is the lack of same sex romances in the game. Kelly is not a true romance; there is little built up and no emotional climax, like with Thane or Jack (two excellent romances).

[Erode_The_Soul]

DeathCultArm wrote...
Well the "new" lesbian sex scene is with Kelly....there problem solved. Everyone should be happy now.

Actually, from what I can tell, the argument in this thread is that Bioware included and continues to include female homosexual romances (Liara, Kelly, etc) but excludes male homosexual romances with the excuse that they view Shepard a certain way.
Because of that, then Kelly being the f/f romance option should only resolve one side of the issue, and therefore not make everyone happy.

[the_devils_aid]

Khavos wrote...

Deviija wrote...

Putting aside Liara and asari and the monogendered whatever, there is still KELLY in ME2. This suddenly allows for FemShep to be lesbian or bisexual. Somehow that is within the 'character constraints' for the Shepard character, yet it is not within the 'character constraints' for DudeShep to be gay or bisexual. That is the main point of irritation with Ray's explanation, as far as I see it.

Saying 'Kelly doesn't count' to the argument is silly. She does count.

Male Shepard is iconic, and making him gay would tarnish what Bioware considers to be iconic.

Female Shepard is an afterthought, and so therefore can be gay.

That's what Bioware's telling you.  I'm straight, and it bothers me.

Of course, it bothers me even more that they're taking a derivative space opera so seriously.  Did they actually think they were doing great writing here? 

 the story is very well done as are the current love interests if you rolled the proper sex to enjoy them