968 réponses à ce sujet

[Lamiea]

DeathCultArm wrote...
No the mako didn't carry over there is the hammerhead.

But it did carry over, maybe not in a usable form but it was there.

And Liara didn't carry over..there's Kelly. makes perfect sense.

Except she did. Liara was in ME2 and your romance continued if you had one with her. Please play the game before you post. 

[Monstruo696]

I like how everyone ignores the good arguments, like Lord Atlias' and instead try to have a verbal fight with Death guy instead.



Have fun beating your heads against the wall.

[Naltair]

It's not about sales it's about what the developers wanted to do, if they decided they didn't want to do it then they went with it. I think they made the decision to allow for a two female avatars to get it on and against two male ones, why, I have no answer.



But that is what they decided to do.



My bet is that they felt this was the easier sell to the target audience and that fans who played women would like being able to pursue a female avatar.

[Khavos]

the_devils_aid wrote...

the story is very well done as are the current love interests if you rolled the proper sex to enjoy them

I'm straight, dude, so I don't know what gender has to do with anything.

The love interests are geek fantasy bull****, one in particular, and the story's your usual derivative space opera drek.  It's told quite well, but it's not exactly standing on the shoulders of The Odyssey or anything. 

[DeathCultArm]

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

it seems like you have an issue with society, more than the game. People expect everyone to be so self-righteous and to jus tpretend that things like bias and what not don't exist. Does Bioware have to create a situation to adhere to every single individuals preference? I understand that some Mass Effect gamers may be ***, but that does not mean that Bioware should be forced to make that an option in all of their games.

Even if Liara was a female, and there was lesbian sex in ME...That doesn't mean they have to add it here as well.

That's your opinion.  But my point is that Bioware has already created many games that adhere to many situations, including gay gamers', and the world didn't end, neither did those games fail to sell.  They should not be afraid of doing so with this one.

Saying that Bioware should be afraid of some imaginary bias from imaginary ignorant people that has never been shown to affect the sales or publicity of any games, ever, is very flawed logic.

Which is why I keep asking for hard, visible evidence from anyone regarding any game that has lost sales due to any sort of controversy.  Seriously, anything.  Ever.  One single instance of this would be fine.  But the fact that there is none shows that there is no reason for Bioware to base their decisions on this obviously nonexistent impetus.

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

[the_devils_aid]

DaeJi wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...



*sigh* This is exactly what I mean. It's hard to take the pro-*** romance side when they're never satisfied with anything.

The only thing we are not satisfied with is the lack of same sex romances in the game. Kelly is not a true romance; there is little built up and no emotional climax, like with Thane or Jack (two excellent romances).

dude, you were not on the DA forums were you when they first announced only one samesex LI for each sex? the forum exploded cause one just wasnt enough.

of course this all died down when it was realised they could make alistar/morigan gay through the toolset.

[DeathCultArm]

DaeJi wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...



*sigh* This is exactly what I mean. It's hard to take the pro-*** romance side when they're never satisfied with anything.

The only thing we are not satisfied with is the lack of same sex romances in the game. Kelly is not a true romance; there is little built up and no emotional climax, like with Thane or Jack (two excellent romances).

Maybe it wasn't a priority to add *** romances? Maybe they just had no plans to do so, and Kelly was better than nothing. that it possible. If they add added a lesbian romances in, instead of either Thane/Garrus/Jacbo then everyone would've wanted them in as well.

[the_devils_aid]

Khavos wrote...

the_devils_aid wrote...

the story is very well done as are the current love interests if you rolled the proper sex to enjoy them

I'm straight, dude, so I don't know what gender has to do with anything.

The love interests are geek fantasy bull****, one in particular, and the story's your usual derivative space opera drek.  It's told quite well, but it's not exactly standing on the shoulders of The Odyssey or anything. 

well, if you think about, there has been no new story typs since greece fell apart.

normal soldier that happens to do well stumbles upon a threat against the world while doing some completly mundane thing. goes on epic adventure to stop it, then realizes at the end of the story he has only just begun to fight it. also get the girl somewhere in there.

not really new material. still its told well, and its better than most of the crap that out there.

[DeathCultArm]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
Well the "new" lesbian sex scene is with Kelly....there problem solved. Everyone should be happy now.

Actually, from what I can tell, the argument in this thread is that Bioware included and continues to include female homosexual romances (Liara, Kelly, etc) but excludes male homosexual romances with the excuse that they view Shepard a certain way.
Because of that, then Kelly being the f/f romance option should only resolve one side of the issue, and therefore not make everyone happy.

BW adding a m/m is another debate i'm not going into due to such a flammable subject.

[DeathCultArm]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
No the mako didn't carry over there is the hammerhead.

But it did carry over, maybe not in a usable form but it was there.

And Liara didn't carry over..there's Kelly. makes perfect sense.

Except she did. Liara was in ME2 and your romance continued if you had one with her. Please play the game before you post. 

You're not making any sense. Both a vehile and a "***" scene appeard in ME2, but in a different capacity.

[Myrmedus]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...
snip

Dismissing my arguments as conjecture when conjecture is all you have as well. Irony.

A lot of straight people play homosexual romances. Straight guys play F/F, straight women play M/M, straight women play F/F, straight guys play M/M. Your conjecture is that they're all in a minority.

Well, BioWare still has shown optional content for minority audiences. Juhani was a lesbian, for instance.

All this compiled with my earlier points (and your own admissions) = you are using conjecture just as much as I am. That's my point. It's pointless for you to go on and on about what is or isn't "majority" when BioWare clearly doesn't dismiss all decisions based on whether or not they're a majority.

Simple.

I dismiss your arguments that BW will do it. I don't dismiss you wanting it in the game. I also suggest that your conjecture on Jack is completely unfounded whereas at least I do have some evidence to support my convictions, even if it may be circumstantial.

My opinion on this is on the basis that I say the minority of players are interested in same-sex romances, based upon the fact the majority of players will be interested in a romance that fits their own sexuality.

You may argue THAT is the part which is conjecture but, while the sample size of this thread is small, it's still at least some iota of evidence to support my conviction, as is the evidence that the majority of people in the world, and thus in the sample size that is ME's playerbase, are heterosexual - what evidence do you have as support?

The only counter-argument you have is the notion that there is a proportionately high amount of players who engage in romances that are of a different sexuality than their own, since the sexuality proportions of the playerbase can't really be argued with if you want me to remain straight-faced. While I agree that it's unlikely everyone picks a romance purely of their sexuality, I also find it highly unlikely that a high proportion pick a different sexuality romance.

But let's just be honest here and stick to common sense: if they released a same-sex romance we just know intuitively that a low proportion of the players would engage upon it. We don't need to actually disect information to recognise that and neither do BW.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 03:31 .

[Khavos]

the_devils_aid wrote...

well, if you think about, there has been no new story typs since greece fell apart.

normal soldier that happens to do well stumbles upon a threat against the world while doing some completly mundane thing. goes on epic adventure to stop it, then realizes at the end of the story he has only just begun to fight it. also get the girl somewhere in there.

not really new material. still its told well, and its better than most of the crap that out there.

No, there have definitely been new stories and new story types since "Greece fell". 

I don't demand great writing from video games.  I like it when it appears, which is rare at best.  On the other hand, developers giving themselves airs about the worth of their story is pretty hilarious, especially when they don't seem to realize that their "iconic vision" is a ****ing sleazebag.  

[MrBiggens]

Lord Atlia wrote...

That is because it is not as simple as that.  Some of the people against it are not against it because they are homophobes but it seems that people are not asking for a bisexual or homosexual character they are asking for all characters to be bisexual which would move the game 1 step away from being an interactive novel towards being a omnipotent god simulator like the Sims.  I have no problem with Zevran or Leliana but I do have problems with people that wanted Morrigan or Alistair to be gay because the authors didn't envision them this way.  Asking for all characters to be bisexual is the same as the people saying all characters should be straight.  Characters should have a sexual preference and develop relationships from there. That is how Bioware games have always worked, this is just a case when there were no bisexual or homosexual characters in the cast, there is no proof that it is for mainstream appeal, it could be the writers just didn't imagine any of the cast as bi or homosexual.

qft.

and i also laugh at the people that say 'they had gay romances in previous games, why not in this one', since that makes no sense. The CEO of Bioware gave you a reason why: (in a nutshell) ME is a different game, therefore we use different mechanics. Not every game we make is the same'. so now all the super-outgoing-shove-it-down-everyones-throats-because-i-whine-when-i-dont-get-what-i-want pro gays say 'well.... thats not good enough. I WANT MY GAY RELATIONSHIPS!!1!1!1ELEVEN!11!!!'

[BrianWilly]

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

And, like has been said over and over in this thread, the developers repeatedly boasted about themselves being a company that doesn't shy from controversy, along with touting this game as being based on your own choices, with a particular focus on romantic content.  To have six romantic options and not a single gay option is a poor, hypocritical game design.  That is a reason to add it, and we've been over all this already.  What's not to understand?

[Khavos]

MrBiggens wrote...
qft.

and i also laugh at the people that say 'they had gay romances in previous games, why not in this one', since that makes no sense. The CEO of Bioware gave you a reason why: (in a nutshell) ME is a different game, therefore we use different mechanics. Not every game we make is the same'. so now all the super-outgoing-shove-it-down-everyones-throats-because-i-whine-when-i-dont-get-what-i-want pro gays say 'well.... thats not good enough. I WANT MY GAY RELATIONSHIPS!!1!1!1ELEVEN!11!!!'

The only problem with that is that he kinda seemed to forget that there was the option to create a female Shepard, who could go gay all day long in the story. 

[Lamiea]

DeathCultArm wrote...
You're not making any sense. Both a vehile and a "***" scene appeard in ME2, but in a different capacity.

Incorrect, you said ..."this is different game and shouldn't be linked with the first about everything..." and used "the mako was in the first...Where is it now?" as an argument to support that. I proved that this was a bad analogy. The Mako carried over, so did the romance with Liara - there's nothing there to support the "things should not be linked" argument.

Modifié par Lamiea, 08 février 2010 - 03:33 .

[MrBiggens]

Khavos wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...
qft.

and i also laugh at the people that say 'they had gay romances in previous games, why not in this one', since that makes no sense. The CEO of Bioware gave you a reason why: (in a nutshell) ME is a different game, therefore we use different mechanics. Not every game we make is the same'. so now all the super-outgoing-shove-it-down-everyones-throats-because-i-whine-when-i-dont-get-what-i-want pro gays say 'well.... thats not good enough. I WANT MY GAY RELATIONSHIPS!!1!1!1ELEVEN!11!!!'

The only problem with that is that he kinda seemed to forget that there was the option to create a female Shepard, who could go gay all day long in the story. 

do you consider every Asari bisexual because they can mate with any sex of any species?

[Khavos]

MrBiggens wrote...

do you consider every Asari bisexual because they can mate with any sex of any species?

Hadn't thought about it. 

I do consider a female Shep that bangs Liara or Kelly to be at the very least bisexual, though. 

[MrBiggens]

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

And, like has been said over and over in this thread, the developers repeatedly boasted about themselves being a company that doesn't shy from controversy, along with touting this game as being based on your own choices, with a particular focus on romantic content.  To have six romantic options and not a single gay option is a poor, hypocritical game design.  That is a reason to add it, and we've been over all this already.  What's not to understand?

lololol the fact is that you bought the game already. so why put in new **** that 'could' possibly turn off a small minority of people? they want game sales. and they got your sale. stop talking and complaining

[DeathCultArm]

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

And, like has been said over and over in this thread, the developers repeatedly boasted about themselves being a company that doesn't shy from controversy, along with touting this game as being based on your own choices, with a particular focus on romantic content.  To have six romantic options and not a single gay option is a poor, hypocritical game design.  That is a reason to add it, and we've been over all this already.  What's not to understand?

There's alot of things they could add that would make alot of people happy....doesn' mean they should. And if they had taken out either Jacob/Thane/Garrus out in replacement for a lesbian romances then everyone would've complained about them not being a LI. You can pleas everyoene why try?

Who said they shyed away? Maybe thye just didn't want to add a *** LI...That is actually possible.

[Myrmedus]

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

Same would be said if they didn't add it though...the loss of sales would be completely negligible. The same amount of people who'd actually not buy the game because it lacked same-sex romance would probably be as insignificant as the red-neck hicks who wouldn't buy it purely because of the inclusion of said romances.

However, the advantage of not adding it would mean more free development time rather than using some of that time spent on what is, quite honestly, an afterthought. More time spent on mainstream parts of the game like plot and cinematography produces an overall better product for the people who purchase it, who will be roughly the same amount as if they did include same-sex romance.

This is what I've been trying to get at for the best part of an hour now: there's no logical reason to include them from BW's perspective.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 03:37 .

[Khavos]

DeathCultArm wrote...

Who said they shyed away? Maybe thye just didn't want to add a *** LI...That is actually possible.

There a reason that you keep using derogatory slurs for homosexuals, out of curiosity?

Is it an age thing? 

[DeathCultArm]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
You're not making any sense. Both a vehile and a "***" scene appeard in ME2, but in a different capacity.

Incorrect, you said ..."this is different game and shouldn't be linked with the first about everything..." and used "the mako was in the first...Where is it now?" as an argument to support that. I proved that this was a bad analogy. The Mako carried over, so did the romance with Liara - there's nothing there to support the "things should not be linked" argument.

The Mako carried over just as much as much as a *** romances did. The mako wasn't in, and will be added later ad DLC. Well Liara is in the game, but the only *** romance is with Kelly a new character. So..yeah..

[DeathCultArm]

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Who said they shyed away? Maybe thye just didn't want to add a *** LI...That is actually possible.

There a reason that you keep using derogatory slurs for homosexuals, out of curiosity?

Is it an age thing? 

You do know I am strarring our gay...right? I wasn't using the word starting with and "F".

Modifié par DeathCultArm, 08 février 2010 - 03:38 .

[Khavos]

DeathCultArm wrote...

You do know I am strarring our gay...right?

No.  Why would you star out gay?