968 réponses à ce sujet

[Khavos]

MrBiggens wrote...

as i said previously, so because we as humans see asari as an all female race means they are?

No.  Because we humans see asari as an all-female race, a female entering into a romantic relationship with one of them couldn't exactly be considered heterosexual.

i'm in college. i know plenty of girls who do. plz dont argue that point, cuz every college student will say your wrong.

Now I know you're lying.

I didn't know the game had to be perfectly symmetrical, offering the exact same things to each side. Being paragon/renegade doesn't net the same outcomes, so why should sexual preference?

I said there was no reason male Shepard couldn't bang a dude and not be gay or bisexual, and asked if you agreed.  You dodged the question, so I'll just ask it again.

Since you believe that female Shepard can have a "one time fling" with a female and not be a lesbian or bisexual, do you see any reason why male Shepard couldn't do the same? 

What's your major, by the way?  I have a guess, and I'm curious if I'm right. 

[stillnotking]

Brahlis wrote...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at
IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay
relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous
absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance
for a lesbian relationship.



Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is
a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role,
and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally
about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In
Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a
pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a
wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a
pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and
that's intentional.


We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our
previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did
in Baldur's Gate,and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of
choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined
character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who
he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more
tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's
more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But
that's by choice.


It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of
choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've
got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games
have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll
probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

So Shepard's gender is a choice that's up to the player, but Shepard's sexuality is set in stone?  Yeah, that makes sense.  <_<

[DeathCultArm]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
You DON"Tuse the mako in ME2

So? It still carries over.

You DON"T have sex with Liara in ME2.

So? The romance carries over.

You are given an all new vehile, and a all new *** romance...

So? The old ones carry over too. I do not think you understand that fact.

You are being literal and not adknowledging points. You don't use the mako, so why even include it, and you don't romance Liara, despite it being in. The real point is there is no *** romances in ME1 or ME2, and the sooner people accept it, the better for all parties.

[Kolaris8472]

Myrmedus wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

Same would be said if they didn't add it though...the loss of sales would be completely negligible. The same amount of people who'd actually not buy the game because it lacked same-sex romance would probably be as insignificant as the red-neck hicks who wouldn't buy it purely because of the inclusion of said romances.

However, the advantage of not adding it would mean more free development time rather than using some of that time spent on what is, quite honestly, an afterthought. More time spent on mainstream parts of the game like plot and cinematography produces an overall better product for the people who purchase it, who will be roughly the same amount as if they did include same-sex romance.

This is what I've been trying to get at for the best part of an hour now: there's no logical reason to include them from BW's perspective.

I disagree with this. In a couple cases, all they had to do was have Hale/Meer read the same lines as the other did. That was quite literally, it. They chose not to let them for other reasons beyond time constraints. 

Now whether they should be working on adding them right now, ok, time plays a factor. 

[Niorcs]

Lamiea wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...

And no, you don't know PLENTY of girls who dance for each other, sit on each other's laps and stroke each other's arms, and cuddle lovingly in bed without being lesbians.  

i'm in college. i know plenty of girls who do. plz dont argue that point, cuz every college student will say your wrong.

I'm also in college, in fact I've been in college for years, and I, again, say that this is not usual. Sorry, but I just don;t believe you at all.

Here you guys go: 

[Khavos]

MrBiggens wrote...

asexual=monogendered. get technical all you want. i'm right, your wrong. you, like every1 else, twists what i say to make it fit you because you dont like what i say.

Dude, it's not hard to go to dictionary.com.  Why would you want to be wrong about the same thing twice in a row? 

[Lamiea]

MrBiggens wrote...
asexual=monogendered.

Incorrect. Asexual means without sex or without interest in sex. Gender and sex are also not the samething so even if the Asari were asexual, and they are not, they would still have a gender.

[Erode_The_Soul]

Lamiea wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...
i'm in college. i know plenty of girls who do. plz dont argue that point, cuz every college student will say your wrong.

I'm also in college, in fact I've been in college for years, and I, again, say that this is not usual. Sorry, but I just don;t believe you at all.

Also going to chime in and say, as a female college student in her senior year, I know of no girls who would act as Kelly does with other women unless they were in a relationship with said women.

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 08 février 2010 - 04:06 .

[Myrmedus]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

Same would be said if they didn't add it though...the loss of sales would be completely negligible. The same amount of people who'd actually not buy the game because it lacked same-sex romance would probably be as insignificant as the red-neck hicks who wouldn't buy it purely because of the inclusion of said romances.

However, the advantage of not adding it would mean more free development time rather than using some of that time spent on what is, quite honestly, an afterthought. More time spent on mainstream parts of the game like plot and cinematography produces an overall better product for the people who purchase it, who will be roughly the same amount as if they did include same-sex romance.

This is what I've been trying to get at for the best part of an hour now: there's no logical reason to include them from BW's perspective.

I disagree with this. In a couple cases, all they had to do was have Hale/Meer read the same lines as the other did. That was quite literally, it. They chose not to let them for other reasons beyond time constraints. 

Now whether they should be working on adding them right now, ok, time plays a factor. 

Naw there's more to it. We both know BW and generally they don't do tacked on, which is how it would feel if it was literally just a couple of lines. 

In addition you'd need to create a scene, deal with the animations, rig the conversation paths etc. it'd take time. Not a huge amount of time, probably 2-3 days of solid work, but more time that - say - a fish pet.

Not to mention we're also forgetting to consider whether the voice actors in question would have issues with acting out a same-sex relationship dialogue. I know it sounds funny but you'd be surprised sometimes....

I just think if you guys are really serious about this you're probably better off petitioning for it to be in the next BW narrative game rather than in ME....

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 04:09 .

[BrianWilly]

DeathCultArm wrote...Six LI's and still... not enough.

Evidently you didn't see my edit, so I'll reiterate: how can you say that I'm "never satisfied" considering that having six
straight romance options was not remotely what I wanted in the first place? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png I wanted gay content.  I didn't get gay content.  So you tell me, how should I be satisfied?  How is that "enough" for me?

You're just being argumentative for the sake of argument, at this point.

[Myrmedus]

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...
i'm in college. i know plenty of girls who do. plz dont argue that point, cuz every college student will say your wrong.

I'm also in college, in fact I've been in college for years, and I, again, say that this is not usual. Sorry, but I just don;t believe you at all.

Also going to chime in and say, as a female college student in her senior year, I know of no girls who would act as Kelly does with other women unless they were in a relationship with said women.

Indeed it's just a common BS fantasy invented by alot of guys because they weirdly seem to 'get off' on such stuff.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 04:07 .

[UsagiVindaloo]

Argh, go away for the day and the thread explodes.



One thing I don't understand is the complaint that, "Oh, you want Bioware to CHANGE these characters to make them gay!" Um... what? Where did "changing" come up? Showing them to be gay or bisexual in no way changes them. There's a difference between changing the fundamental soul of a character and just revealing a new side to them. It could come out that, say, Garrus is bisexual, and it would not change a single thing about him. He would still be an awesome turian badass that we all love. How does saying he likes guys and girls make him any different as a character?



Also, I echo the comment somewhere upthread that there are definitely some characters who seem like they could *easily* have worked out as gay or bisexual... in fact, I remember the first time I saw Thane, I was convinced he would be the m/m LI. Jack would have worked too.



Now, having said that, I do see the point of those that are stating, "Hey, the game is already done, it's finished, no point demanding things now that the song and dance is done." From a certain perspective, I can understand how it seems strange and annoying to, well, cry over spilt milk. Insisting over and over that "OMG you could have made Thane a love interest!" does not spontaneously make him a love interest. On the other hand, however, it's important to give Bioware feedback of where they have succeeded AND where they screwed up so that they know what to fix for ME3. Yes, it's too late to "fix" ME2 the way it should have been (ie with more bisexual LIs) but if we state clearly and calmly our problems with this, Bioware may register this and consider it for the next game, or even for DLC. So yeah, complaining about ME2 in a way that says, "Fix ME2!" may not be very helpful... but complaining in a way that says, "This was bad in ME2, please fix for ME3!" is a great idea.

[MrBiggens]

Khavos wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...

as i said previously, so because we as humans see asari as an all female race means they are?

No.  Because we humans see asari as an all-female race, a female entering into a romantic relationship with one of them couldn't exactly be considered heterosexual.

so then maybe we need a new term for a male or female mating with a monogendered species?

i'm in college. i know plenty of girls who do. plz dont argue that point, cuz every college student will say your wrong.

Now I know you're lying.

lol as i told the other dude on here, maybe you should get out more.

I didn't know the game had to be perfectly symmetrical, offering the exact same things to each side. Being paragon/renegade doesn't net the same outcomes, so why should sexual preference?

I said there was no reason male Shepard couldn't bang a dude and not be gay or bisexual, and asked if you agreed.  You dodged the question, so I'll just ask it again.

Since you believe that female Shepard can have a "one time fling" with a female and not be a lesbian or bisexual, do you see any reason why male Shepard couldn't do the same? 

What's your major, by the way?  I have a guess, and I'm curious if I'm right. 

what question did i dodge? your saying because they can, they should? lemme elaborate.

your saying because they have the ability to put in a homosexual m/m 1 time fling because you can have a f/f 1 time fling means they should do so? i dont see how that makes sense... as i said before when you dodged what i said, since when do both sides of any choice have to be symmetrically equal? why doesn't paragon shepard get everything that renegade shepard gets and vice versa?

and generic business BS degree. 4 years and im out. in my 2nd year btw

[Khavos]

Myrmedus wrote...

Indeed it's just a common BS fantasy invented by alot of guys because they weirdly seem to 'get off' on such stuff.

That's not quite true.  College girls will definitely attention **** in that manner.  The liar's making the claim that they do that sort of thing, alone, all the time, which is laughable, and any non-lesbian asked would agree that it's laughable. 

[MrBiggens]

Khavos wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...

asexual=monogendered. get technical all you want. i'm right, your wrong. you, like every1 else, twists what i say to make it fit you because you dont like what i say.

Dude, it's not hard to go to dictionary.com.  Why would you want to be wrong about the same thing twice in a row? 

i did. and the funny part of this is that i even corrected myself by replacing asexual with monogendered, even though the Asari ARE asexual

[KalosCast]

How the hell is Shepard a defined character with established worldviews? Other than "joining up with the Alliance at some point" I'd like the Devs to name one important facet of his personality (other than sexuality) that isn't decided by the player.

[Lamiea]

DeathCultArm wrote...

You are being literal and not adknowledging points.

Because you are not making any.

You don't use the mako, so why even include it...

Because it's something that ties the two games together - just like Taili or Liara 

and you don't romance Liara, despite it being in.

Wrong, you can romance her as long as you had a romance started in ME1. 

The real point is there is no *** romances in ME1 or ME2.

Heh. Massive fail.

[ERJAK2]

Brahlis wrote...

IGN: Will there be gay relationships for the male Shepard? Here at
IGN we've heard a lot of positive feedback from the inclusion of gay
relationships in Dragon Age; compare that with the somewhat conspicuous
absence of them from the first Mass Effect, especially with the chance
for a lesbian relationship.



Ray Muzyka: Here's how the games are different: Dragon Age is
a first person narrative, where you're taking on an origin and a role,
and you are that character at a fundamental level. It's fundamentally
about defining your character, including those kinds of concepts. In
Mass Effect it's more a third person narrative, where you have a
pre-defined character who is who he is, or she is. But it's not a
wide-open choice matrix. It's more choice on a tactical level with a
pre-defined character. So they're different types of narratives, and
that's intentional.


We're not saying that one approach is better than the other. In our
previous games, as we did in Jade Empire, as we did in KOTOR, as we did
in Baldur's Gate,and many games before and in the future, we enable those kinds of
choices, whereas in Mass Effect it's more about Shepard as a defined
character with certain approaches and worldviews, and that's just who
he or she is. So we constrain the choice set somewhat, but enable more
tactical choices and enable a deeper, richer personality, because it's
more focused around defining one character, it's not as wide open. But
that's by choice.


It's first person versus third person narrative, and the types of
choices you get to make within that are related to that, whether you've
got a pre-defined character or a wide-open character. Some of our games
have been wide open, and some have been more constrained, and we'll
probably continue both kinds of character development in the future.

Seen this quote already, am utterly unconcerned with it. It's total B.S., flies in the face of everything they've ever said about ME and their style of game development.

Beyond that, the Grey Warden in Dragon age wasn't a character, it was a place holder. A body the player could utilize to kill things. Morrigan was a character, Leliana was a character, Shepard is a character, DAO's grey warden was not.

[Myrmedus]

MrBiggens wrote...
so then maybe we need a new term for a male or female mating with a monogendered species?

Naw it's ******- or bisexual purely because of the psychological intent from the female Shepard character. It doesn't matter if the Asari is ACTUALLY monogendered the whole importance rests upon the Shepard's perception, and we know intuitively the perception would be that an Asari is female.

It's a subtle line but it's there.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[DeathCultArm]

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...Six LI's and still... not enough.

Evidently you didn't see my edit, so I'll reiterate: how can you say that I'm "never satisfied" considering that having six
straight romance options was not remotely what I wanted in the first place? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/andy.png I wanted gay content.  I didn't get gay content.  So you tell me, how should I be satisfied?  How is that "enough" for me?

You're just being argumentative for the sake of argument, at this point.

What YOU want....we all want something..It doen't mean BW has to add it. What option is better for the majority of gamers? Six romance? Or less, with *** romances...There's no way to add them without shunning those who prefer the heterosexual ones.

[Myrmedus]

Khavos wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Indeed it's just a common BS fantasy invented by alot of guys because they weirdly seem to 'get off' on such stuff.

That's not quite true.  College girls will definitely attention **** in that manner.  The liar's making the claim that they do that sort of thing, alone, all the time, which is laughable, and any non-lesbian asked would agree that it's laughable. 

I know some girls do it but they're not college located specifically just ****s. Like you say though it's the fact they try to paint college as some bicurious psuedo-paradise that is the BS.

[MrBiggens]

Myrmedus wrote...

Erode_The_Soul wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

MrBiggens wrote...
i'm in college. i know plenty of girls who do. plz dont argue that point, cuz every college student will say your wrong.

I'm also in college, in fact I've been in college for years, and I, again, say that this is not usual. Sorry, but I just don;t believe you at all.

Also going to chime in and say, as a female college student in her senior year, I know of no girls who would act as Kelly does with other women unless they were in a relationship with said women.

Indeed it's just a common BS fantasy invented by alot of guys because they weirdly seem to 'get off' on such stuff.

1. get out more and get new friends. your core group of 10 people is not a lot.
2. i dont have that fantasy. i dont fantisize about 2 girls. at all. ever. BUT a threesome is a completely different story....

[Kolaris8472]

Myrmedus wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There is no evidence. BUT you're being biased. To think BW needs to add *** romances b/c they did it before is trivial, and makes no sense. Just b/c it's not in they're afraid..?..?! Sure there's no reason not to add it...but there's no reason TO add it either.

Your aruement seems very one sided.

What do you mean there would be no reason to add it?  The reason to add it would be that it would make me, and a whole lot of other players, much happier.  The loss in sales, if any at all, would be completely negligible.  Bioware has a healthy GLBT fanbase who follows their games because of their positive portrayal of gay content in the past.

Same would be said if they didn't add it though...the loss of sales would be completely negligible. The same amount of people who'd actually not buy the game because it lacked same-sex romance would probably be as insignificant as the red-neck hicks who wouldn't buy it purely because of the inclusion of said romances.

However, the advantage of not adding it would mean more free development time rather than using some of that time spent on what is, quite honestly, an afterthought. More time spent on mainstream parts of the game like plot and cinematography produces an overall better product for the people who purchase it, who will be roughly the same amount as if they did include same-sex romance.

This is what I've been trying to get at for the best part of an hour now: there's no logical reason to include them from BW's perspective.

I disagree with this. In a couple cases, all they had to do was have Hale/Meer read the same lines as the other did. That was quite literally, it. They chose not to let them for other reasons beyond time constraints. 

Now whether they should be working on adding them right now, ok, time plays a factor. 

Naw there's more to it. We both know BW and generally they don't do tacked on, which is how it would feel if it was literally just a couple of lines. 

In addition you'd need to create a scene, deal with the animations, rig the conversation paths etc. it'd take time. Not a huge amount of time, probably 2-3 days of solid work, but more time that - say - a fish pet.

Not to mention we're also forgetting to consider whether the voice actors in question would have issues with acting out a same-sex relationship dialogue. I know it sounds funny but you'd be surprised sometimes....

I just think if you guys are really serious about this you're probably better off petitioning for it to be in the next BW narrative game rather than in ME....

Have you seen the model switch scenes on youtube for the romances? They look fine. Conversation paths would be copy-paste. I don't think Hale would have a problem with it given ME1, Meer, couldn't say. I'm not even sure the other voice actors could dispute it because it would be the exact same dialog used for the the other gender romance. 

Would it feel tacked on? Not for Thane, Jack or Tali in my opinion. They were already that gender-neutral. 

I honestly don't care about whether there are same-sex romances in future BW titles. Good if there are, fine if there aren't. I'm interested in the characters in these games specifically. 

Modifié par Kolaris8472, 08 février 2010 - 04:14 .

[MrBiggens]

Khavos wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Indeed it's just a common BS fantasy invented by alot of guys because they weirdly seem to 'get off' on such stuff.

That's not quite true.  College girls will definitely attention **** in that manner.  The liar's making the claim that they do that sort of thing, alone, all the time, which is laughable, and any non-lesbian asked would agree that it's laughable. 

lolol im a liar. well i guess theres no point in talkin 2 this dude anymore. have fun bro lol