968 réponses à ce sujet

[Kolaris8472]

Myrmedus wrote...

John Forseti wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...
 I'm a somewhere-between-straight-and-bisexual girl.

hawt

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Signed, a proud female gamer. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]

super hawt.

You don't happen to live in northern England do you?

Are you serious?

What is hot about a girl who wants to kiss someone that isn't you (ie. another girl)?

I will never, EVER understand this weird obsession from 99% of the male population. ****in'. Weird.

I think its just a development on whatever made all the male population fall in love with Tali in ME1 because she wasn't a love interest, or because she had a mask. They like the playing hard to get vibe, though I don't think any of them realize that its beyond hard to get =P

[Lamiea]

DeathCultArm wrote...

...a good number of the demographic is ignorant and wouldn't use a bisexual male character.

Prove that. 

[Myrmedus]

TheSemibot wrote...

Wow. This thread is full of hate o_O. You ALL need to stop, seriously, both sides...you've all said what you think about this issue, now move on, face it, none of you is actually going to 'prove the other side wrong' or actually convince them to see things your way.
At this point you are taking this WAY too seriously, you made your claim, surely someone from Bioware noticed it, and they will deal with it as they see fit for better or worse.
Seriously people, take it easy, and move on.

Personally I'm just mucking around with the other posters now so....

[DeathCultArm]

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

No, now every male gamer who dislikes bi-sexual men can no longer use that character. I'm sure they're glad they were shunned for a veryn small minority. You just can do they. The best choice is to add an only *** male that way you don't alienate the male gamers who wanted to use the bisexual male character as a squadmate.

If the option is to trade the tolerant minority for the intolerant minority, then yes I think Bioware should side with the former.

And yes I said "minority" to describe both groups because, again, I think you're vastly and almost comically overestimating the impact of those people whose game experiences would evidently be ruined because of two bisexual characters in their games.  Especially considering that Liara, Samara/Morinth, and Kelly are all in this game anyway...

Oh wait, I forget that you don't consider Asari women, because Casey Hudson said so.

Persoanlly, I agree, thye shoulf go with the tolerant minority. But if they don't, it's BW's choice and there's nothing I, or anyonce else can  about it. And no one cares about lesbian romances, yes there is a double standard.

[Myrmedus]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

John Forseti wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...
 I'm a somewhere-between-straight-and-bisexual girl.

hawt

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Signed, a proud female gamer. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/kissing.png[/smilie]

super hawt.

You don't happen to live in northern England do you?

Are you serious?

What is hot about a girl who wants to kiss someone that isn't you (ie. another girl)?

I will never, EVER understand this weird obsession from 99% of the male population. ****in'. Weird.

I think its just a development on whatever made all the male population fall in love with Tali in ME1 because she wasn't a love interest, or because she had a mask. They like the playing hard to get vibe, though I don't think any of them realize that its beyond hard to get =P

It was the crackin' hips for me personally.

Anyone else?

Anyone?

[Myrmedus]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

...a good number of the demographic is ignorant and wouldn't use a bisexual male character.

Prove that. 

To be fair while he can't bring up statistics I have to agree with him here on the former part of that sentence. The latter part is completely baseless conjecture though.

[Lamiea]

tausra wrote...

Almost makes me want a Transgender, or Transsexual character, just to see how the "enlightened masses" would respond. 

I would welcome that, it would be awesome. 

EDIT-
Just to be clear:

-Transgender
Transgendered individuals are those people who are either a different “gender” than their sex or a mix
of the two “genders”. For example, a person who self-identifies as a female lesbian but has male sexual
origins would be considered transgendered. This is a more extreme case, most transgendered people
are simply more “neutral” than the stereotypical “norms,” but a true one nonetheless. In other words, a
transgendered person is anyone who breaks from the gender “norms” assigned by society.

-Transsexual
Transsexuals are individuals who undertake surgery that alters their genitals – id est sex reassignment
surgery (SRS). Often transgendered individuals who feel so uncomfortable in their body that they have
to change it, transsexuals are those who have undergone a physical change to, for the most part, align
their sex with their self-identified gender. An example would be someone who identifies as a
heterosexual female who undergoes surgery to change her male body to a female one.

Modifié par Lamiea, 08 février 2010 - 04:46 .

[DeathCultArm]

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Bad comparison...

No, it isn't.  At all.  You just stated that there shouldn't be a bisexual male character because then male players who didn't like bisexuals wouldn't be able to use him in their squad.

What about racists who don't like black people? 

Come on.  You walked right ****ing into it, I want to watch you squirm. 

Squirm? If there wan't a minority character, agai the same rules would apply. Black's aren't the majority, so they aren't going to be caterd to, or necessiarly represented in a meduim dominted by white males.

[Myrmedus]

Omg this is getting into some kind of sexuality science experiment now rofl.



Are we all forgetting that this game is about fight SUPER ROBOTS in the drifts of SPACE?

[UsagiVindaloo]

tausra wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

tausra wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
No, now every male gamer who dislikes bi-sexual men can no longer use
that character. I'm sure they're glad they were shunned for a veryn
small minority. You just can do they. The best choice is to add an only
*** male that way you don't alienate the male gamers who wanted to use
the bisexual male character as a squadmate.

If an option offends you then maybe you need to re-examine what upsets you. If a bisexual or gay character makes you so upset you will avoid using him/her then you have a problem. The more anti-gay rants I hear the more I wonder if society is truly as enlightened as we think. Honestly is it so much to ask for 1 in 3 to be bisexual?

Actually, now that you mention that I instantly thought back to post DA:O launch. Most loved how romances were done...save for the few " presumably younger males" who " fell for the Zevran massage" offer, and freaked out.

they were a shining moment in the development of ****** sapient sapient cultural social evolution

Almost makes me want a Transgender, or Transsexual character, just to see how the "enlightened masses" would respond.  Being transgender myself, I hope there isn't such a character because I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Apologies for any irreverence, but I wonder what would happen if they introduced an Asari character who actually identified as male vs the... um... uh... whatever asari currently identify as. o_O (I'm going to tentatively say female based on use of feminine titles e.g. Maiden, Matriarch). 

[ERJAK2]

DeathCultArm wrote...

tausra wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

BrianWilly wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
What YOU want....we all want something..It doen't mean BW has to add it. What option is better for the majority of gamers? Six romance? Or less, with *** romances...There's no way to add them without shunning those who prefer the heterosexual ones.

Or,

Six romances, with two out of those six -- one male and one female -- being bisexual options that both male and female Shepards could potentially pursue, much like Liara in the first game.  The remaining four being straight.

There.  In less than a minute I just made everyone happy.

You don't even have to change a lot, if any, of the dialogue: if you'll notice, pretty much all romance dialogue for all romance options are entirely gender-neutral.  Meer and Hale had recorded same-sex romance dialogue for the first game; there's no reason to think they didn't for the second game.

No, now every male gamer who dislikes bi-sexual men can no longer use that character. I'm sure they're glad they were shunned for a veryn small minority. You just can do they. The best choice is to add an only *** male that way you don't alienate the male gamers who wanted to use the bisexual male character as a squadmate.

The difference is that those people are prejudiced, which is an even smaller minority(especially for Bioware.)

That's like not having Jacob be a character because it closes off options to people who hate black people.

There are still a decent number of gamers who are ignorant, and they do still but the game. Why alter a character in that manner anyway, knowing your main demographic won't respond positively?

The main demographic is ignorant, anti-gay, or insecure people?  Wow news to me!

The main demograpic is straight, male gamers and a good number of the demographic is ignorant and wouldn't use a bisexual male character.

BIOWARE! There is no other game developer with a larger following of gay/bi/accepting people. It's a hallmark of their company's social accountability for what? 10 years now?

[DeathCultArm]

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

There are still a decent number of gamers who are ignorant, and they do still but the game. Why alter a character in that manner anyway, knowing your main demographic won't respond positively?

For the same reason that black characters are included in games.  If you've ever played a multiplayer shooter, you're well aware that racism is alive and well in the main demographic that Bioware's chasing.  

Exactly, if there wasn't a minority character in the game the same rules would apply to there not be being *** ones.

Wait.  You're saying that if there weren't a black dude in the game, you'd be fine with not including one JUST BECAUSE racists wouldn't like it?

Is English not your first language or something? 

What does english have to do with it? I'm not saying i'd  be fine with it b/c racists wanted it that way. I'm saying if BW decided not to it wouldn't matter one way or the other.

[tausra]

Lamiea wrote...

tausra wrote...

Almost makes me want a Transgender, or Transsexual character, just to see how the "enlightened masses" would respond. 

I would welcome that, it would be awesome. 

Lol as fun as it would be to see, it's not fun on a personal level. I also think there should always be more Rocky Horror Picture Show referances, but I won't hold my breath waiting for them.

[DeathCultArm]

ERJAK2 wrote...

BIOWARE! There is no other game developer with a larger following of gay/bi/accepting people. It's a hallmark of their company's social accountability for what? 10 years now?

Again, EA owns BW now, and they are focusing at more commerical audience. They can no longer get away wih what they once did.

[ERJAK2]

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Bad comparison...

No, it isn't.  At all.  You just stated that there shouldn't be a bisexual male character because then male players who didn't like bisexuals wouldn't be able to use him in their squad.

What about racists who don't like black people? 

Come on.  You walked right ****ing into it, I want to watch you squirm. 

Squirm? If there wan't a minority character, agai the same rules would apply. Black's aren't the majority, so they aren't going to be caterd to, or necessiarly represented in a meduim dominted by white males.

And any validity any argument you would of or have made is GONE! Congratulations, you are now a racist on top of being homophobic. This is one of the most common arguments against blacks, asians, mexicans, jews, italians,  arabics, etc, etc, in the media, forever. The American(don't know about the other places) de jure(of the law) expression is "Majority rules with minority rights." Go play a banjo or something.

[Lamiea]

tausra wrote...
Lol as fun as it would be to see, it's not fun on a personal level. 

I can understand that, in real life transgendered and transsexual individuals -see my last post for the definitions I am using- face too much discrimination in addition to the general hardships that they might face. However, I would still like to see one in a game sometime soon.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Myrmedus wrote...

Omg this is getting into some kind of sexuality science experiment now rofl.

Are we all forgetting that this game is about fight SUPER ROBOTS in the drifts of SPACE?

LOL, you do have a point. Having said that, I think it is important to talk about these sorts of things because they are a reflection of the larger social issues we SHOULD be confronting. For example, many people have said that the reason there's no m/m romance option is that the straight white male demographic wouldn't like it and would actually be violently against that. But for me, that's not the end but the beginning of the discussion: why? What makes them so against it? Do we need to tolerate their intolerance, or work to change it? How much of this is due to social influence, both overt (e.g. gay jokes) and subtle (e.g. very little media depicting gay characters as "average Joes" just like them). 

For that reason, I'm very happy to sit and discuss ROBOTS IN SPACE if it leads to better understanding of humans here on earth.

[tausra]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

tausra wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

tausra wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
No, now every male gamer who dislikes bi-sexual men can no longer use
that character. I'm sure they're glad they were shunned for a veryn
small minority. You just can do they. The best choice is to add an only
*** male that way you don't alienate the male gamers who wanted to use
the bisexual male character as a squadmate.

If an option offends you then maybe you need to re-examine what upsets you. If a bisexual or gay character makes you so upset you will avoid using him/her then you have a problem. The more anti-gay rants I hear the more I wonder if society is truly as enlightened as we think. Honestly is it so much to ask for 1 in 3 to be bisexual?

Actually, now that you mention that I instantly thought back to post DA:O launch. Most loved how romances were done...save for the few " presumably younger males" who " fell for the Zevran massage" offer, and freaked out.

they were a shining moment in the development of ****** sapient sapient cultural social evolution

Almost makes me want a Transgender, or Transsexual character, just to see how the "enlightened masses" would respond.  Being transgender myself, I hope there isn't such a character because I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Apologies for any irreverence, but I wonder what would happen if they introduced an Asari character who actually identified as male vs the... um... uh... whatever asari currently identify as. o_O (I'm going to tentatively say female based on use of feminine titles e.g. Maiden, Matriarch). 

Same thing that happened to Jack, she'd be disliked for being too manly or rugged.  But it would be a better  reaction than to say a Turian or Salarian male who identified themself as female.  I've grown a thick skin about who I am, so trust me unlesss you start spouting hate speech, I won't be offended.

[Lamiea]

DeathCultArm wrote...
Again, EA owns BW now, and they are focusing at more commerical audience. They can no longer get away wih what they once did.

And yet EA allowed a foursome and homosexual romances in DA. Please stop this nonsense now.

[ERJAK2]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
Again, EA owns BW now, and they are focusing at more commerical audience. They can no longer get away wih what they once did.

And yet EA allowed a foursome and homosexual romances in DA. Please stop this nonsense now.

Don't forget legalized prostitution of both genders! 

[DeathCultArm]

ERJAK2 wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Bad comparison...

No, it isn't.  At all.  You just stated that there shouldn't be a bisexual male character because then male players who didn't like bisexuals wouldn't be able to use him in their squad.

What about racists who don't like black people? 

Come on.  You walked right ****ing into it, I want to watch you squirm. 

Squirm? If there wan't a minority character, agai the same rules would apply. Black's aren't the majority, so they aren't going to be caterd to, or necessiarly represented in a meduim dominted by white males.

And any validity any argument you would of or have made is GONE! Congratulations, you are now a racist on top of being homophobic. This is one of the most common arguments against blacks, asians, mexicans, jews, italians,  arabics, etc, etc, in the media, forever. The American(don't know about the other places) de jure(of the law) expression is "Majority rules with minority rights." Go play a banjo or something.

So b/c I wouldn't be depressed if a minority character was in the game i'm a racist. No, i'm just not as self-righteous as everyone else. it's a game and it doesn't matter who wants what. But throwing around the term randomly isn't necessary.

[ERJAK2]

DeathCultArm wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Bad comparison...

No, it isn't.  At all.  You just stated that there shouldn't be a bisexual male character because then male players who didn't like bisexuals wouldn't be able to use him in their squad.

What about racists who don't like black people? 

Come on.  You walked right ****ing into it, I want to watch you squirm. 

Squirm? If there wan't a minority character, agai the same rules would apply. Black's aren't the majority, so they aren't going to be caterd to, or necessiarly represented in a meduim dominted by white males.

And any validity any argument you would of or have made is GONE! Congratulations, you are now a racist on top of being homophobic. This is one of the most common arguments against blacks, asians, mexicans, jews, italians,  arabics, etc, etc, in the media, forever. The American(don't know about the other places) de jure(of the law) expression is "Majority rules with minority rights." Go play a banjo or something.

So b/c I wouldn't be depressed if a minority character was in the game i'm a racist. No, i'm just not as self-righteous as everyone else. it's a game and it doesn't matter who wants what. But throwing around the term randomly isn't necessary.

GONE!

[Khavos]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
Again, EA owns BW now, and they are focusing at more commerical audience. They can no longer get away wih what they once did.

And yet EA allowed a foursome and homosexual romances in DA. Please stop this nonsense now.

Yeah, but to be fair, DA:O wasn't chasing the idiot demographic the same way ME2 is. 

[Myrmedus]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Omg this is getting into some kind of sexuality science experiment now rofl.

Are we all forgetting that this game is about fight SUPER ROBOTS in the drifts of SPACE?

LOL, you do have a point. Having said that, I think it is important to talk about these sorts of things because they are a reflection of the larger social issues we SHOULD be confronting. For example, many people have said that the reason there's no m/m romance option is that the straight white male demographic wouldn't like it and would actually be violently against that. But for me, that's not the end but the beginning of the discussion: why? What makes them so against it? Do we need to tolerate their intolerance, or work to change it? How much of this is due to social influence, both overt (e.g. gay jokes) and subtle (e.g. very little media depicting gay characters as "average Joes" just like them). 

For that reason, I'm very happy to sit and discuss ROBOTS IN SPACE if it leads to better understanding of humans here on earth.

It won't change from a video-game though I don't think. Also, change is slow, really slow, and it's feasible that maybe in one or two generations it won't be so socially marginalized as it is now but people aren't good at changing once they've grown up and cemented their ideals...it's actually completely natural since it's that 'sturdy' mentality that gives an adult human being its mental stability (which is why you're a ****ing mess at puberty!)

Why it's more acceptable for females than males probably stems from the fact that over the years females have been alot more accepting of physical contact and intimacy - not from a sexual point of view but just in friendship. Men are the complete opposite though, for example you'd pretty much never find two guys sharing a bed, even if they were friends, but it's commonplace for female friends to do it without any sexual connotations whatsoever.

It's just a culmination of many many things that will only change gradually with time...or not at all, who knows?