968 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathCultArm]

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
Again, EA owns BW now, and they are focusing at more commerical audience. They can no longer get away wih what they once did.

And yet EA allowed a foursome and homosexual romances in DA. Please stop this nonsense now.

Do you even read anything I post? ME2 is not geared toward DA:O's dungeon crawler demogrpahic. ME2's target audience is shooter fans and aren't as accepting, or want that. Did you see DA:O specials on sy-fy? Or DA:O commericals on MTV? I think not.

[Brahlis]

This thread is gay.

[Myrmedus]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

tausra wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

tausra wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
No, now every male gamer who dislikes bi-sexual men can no longer use
that character. I'm sure they're glad they were shunned for a veryn
small minority. You just can do they. The best choice is to add an only
*** male that way you don't alienate the male gamers who wanted to use
the bisexual male character as a squadmate.

If an option offends you then maybe you need to re-examine what upsets you. If a bisexual or gay character makes you so upset you will avoid using him/her then you have a problem. The more anti-gay rants I hear the more I wonder if society is truly as enlightened as we think. Honestly is it so much to ask for 1 in 3 to be bisexual?

Actually, now that you mention that I instantly thought back to post DA:O launch. Most loved how romances were done...save for the few " presumably younger males" who " fell for the Zevran massage" offer, and freaked out.

they were a shining moment in the development of ****** sapient sapient cultural social evolution

Almost makes me want a Transgender, or Transsexual character, just to see how the "enlightened masses" would respond.  Being transgender myself, I hope there isn't such a character because I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Apologies for any irreverence, but I wonder what would happen if they introduced an Asari character who actually identified as male vs the... um... uh... whatever asari currently identify as. o_O (I'm going to tentatively say female based on use of feminine titles e.g. Maiden, Matriarch). 

I'd be really, REALLY confused.

One half of me would be going "phwoar" while the other would be going "yeech..."

Duality is a wonderful thing - I'm not insane, I'm not.

[Brahlis]

And please stop with the "EA doesn't want it, that's why!" and just accept that the devs have just simply gone against it.



Get over it, people. No amount of whining is going to change it.

[Kolaris8472]

Brahlis wrote...

And please stop with the "EA doesn't want it, that's why!" and just accept that the devs have just simply gone against it.

Get over it, people. No amount of whining is going to change it.

Aaaand we come back to the changes to Tali and Garrus, whether you feel they were out of character or not. 

Also to complaints about planet exploration, combat, inventory management...

[ERJAK2]

Khavos wrote...

Lamiea wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
Again, EA owns BW now, and they are focusing at more commerical audience. They can no longer get away wih what they once did.

And yet EA allowed a foursome and homosexual romances in DA. Please stop this nonsense now.

Yeah, but to be fair, DA:O wasn't chasing the idiot demographic the same way ME2 is. 

What I don't understand is why they picked the one decision that would have fans at each others throats. If they had just kept the same 1 bi female romance character they had in the first one(one that actually got the Paramour achievement), none of us would be talking about this. At all. Even the M/M people would not have more than one or two threads every week that went for more than a few pages.(Sorry M/M fans.)

[Cajeb]

I don't personally mind the absence of M/M relationships, but I do think they should be included. However I think it should be an in character thing. It shouldn't be a completely straight character being gay in another playthrough. Either write in a bisexual relationship ala Zevran or write in an actually gay character. Not just a Kaiden or Jacob who mysteriously turns gay depending on dialogue options.

[Grunt420]

Brahlis wrote...

This thread is gay.

LOL

[UsagiVindaloo]

tausra wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

tausra wrote...

MatronAdena wrote...

tausra wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...
No, now every male gamer who dislikes bi-sexual men can no longer use
that character. I'm sure they're glad they were shunned for a veryn
small minority. You just can do they. The best choice is to add an only
*** male that way you don't alienate the male gamers who wanted to use
the bisexual male character as a squadmate.

If an option offends you then maybe you need to re-examine what upsets you. If a bisexual or gay character makes you so upset you will avoid using him/her then you have a problem. The more anti-gay rants I hear the more I wonder if society is truly as enlightened as we think. Honestly is it so much to ask for 1 in 3 to be bisexual?

Actually, now that you mention that I instantly thought back to post DA:O launch. Most loved how romances were done...save for the few " presumably younger males" who " fell for the Zevran massage" offer, and freaked out.

they were a shining moment in the development of ****** sapient sapient cultural social evolution

Almost makes me want a Transgender, or Transsexual character, just to see how the "enlightened masses" would respond.  Being transgender myself, I hope there isn't such a character because I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Apologies for any irreverence, but I wonder what would happen if they introduced an Asari character who actually identified as male vs the... um... uh... whatever asari currently identify as. o_O (I'm going to tentatively say female based on use of feminine titles e.g. Maiden, Matriarch). 

Same thing that happened to Jack, she'd be disliked for being too manly or rugged.  But it would be a better  reaction than to say a Turian or Salarian male who identified themself as female.  I've grown a thick skin about who I am, so trust me unlesss you start spouting hate speech, I won't be offended.

I'm glad to know I didn't offend you; I hang out in some very liberal areas of the Internet but have gotten very scared of being offensive or privileged when discussing such matters. In some ways, I could imagine a male-identifying asari as a really interesting and frank confrontation of a lot of the questions that are going on here. Are the asari as "non-gendered" as many have been arguing? Would we acknowledge such a character as a man, or would people see more a "man in woman's body"? If male Shepard entered into a relationship with him, would people perceive it as a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship (ditto for femShep)? I would be interested to see the responses of those who have been arguing this whole point from the, "Asari are girls/Asari aren't female" side of the debate.

But you're right in saying that it would probably still be more accepted than a born-male turian or salarian identifying as female. Of course, there the issue is clouded by the fact that we don't even know what turian and salarian females look like or act like. We lack a frame of reference.

[Myrmedus]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Brahlis wrote...

And please stop with the "EA doesn't want it, that's why!" and just accept that the devs have just simply gone against it.

Get over it, people. No amount of whining is going to change it.

Aaaand we come back to the changes to Tali and Garrus, whether you feel they were out of character or not. 

Also to complaints about planet exploration, combat, inventory management...

Tali, no. Garrus, maybe....

The only thing I can say is that Garrus is Turian so maybe there was always a little bit of a barrier between you in ME1 considering the frosty relations between your two races. Since then you could argue that barrier has melted away a little (you likes my temperature imagery? )

[Brahlis]

Kolaris8472 wrote...
Aaaand we come back to the changes to Tali and Garrus, whether you feel they were out of character or not. 

Also to complaints about planet exploration, combat, inventory management...

We don't come back to anything. That's be effectively rebuked time and time again in this thread and in others.

It just amazes me that this thread just keeps going. And going. And going.

Oh yes, Mr. Woo:

StanleyWoo wrote...
You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or
determine what content is acceptable or unacceptable for our players.
But on the other hand, it is not your job to dictate what content we
include or don’t include in our games. Game development is not a
collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a
dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game.
You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to
you (and/or your family) or not.

Modifié par Brahlis, 08 février 2010 - 05:07 .

[UsagiVindaloo]

DeathCultArm wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Bad comparison...

No, it isn't.  At all.  You just stated that there shouldn't be a bisexual male character because then male players who didn't like bisexuals wouldn't be able to use him in their squad.

What about racists who don't like black people? 

Come on.  You walked right ****ing into it, I want to watch you squirm. 

Squirm? If there wan't a minority character, agai the same rules would apply. Black's aren't the majority, so they aren't going to be caterd to, or necessiarly represented in a meduim dominted by white males.

And any validity any argument you would of or have made is GONE! Congratulations, you are now a racist on top of being homophobic. This is one of the most common arguments against blacks, asians, mexicans, jews, italians,  arabics, etc, etc, in the media, forever. The American(don't know about the other places) de jure(of the law) expression is "Majority rules with minority rights." Go play a banjo or something.

So b/c I wouldn't be depressed if a minority character was in the game i'm a racist. No, i'm just not as self-righteous as everyone else. it's a game and it doesn't matter who wants what. But throwing around the term randomly isn't necessary.

Something to consider, however, is that there is active racism/prejudice and... I guess more passive? In other words, not standing up and taking a stand. That's a lot better than saying GRR I HATE BLACKS GAYS WOMEN ETC, but on the other hand, silence or acceptance will not always change the world. Sometimes it's good to say, "Hey, you know what, this isn't cool." 

I'm not sure I totally like the idea of calling the silently accepting type racists, homophobic, whatever... but at the same time, I wouldn't call them particularly progressive either, and I can sort of understand why people would call you a racist, because while you may not preach hatred, you don't stand up against it either.

Of course, you may do so in your own ways apart from the game. That's fine. But rather than writing us off as being too worked up over a game, think instead that we are dissecting a very real social problem - a wart, if you will - that has popped up in a game we love. It's like if the water in a city is polluted, and we go to our favorite restaurant only to find the water has a rat floating in it. Yes, the blame is more with the city, but the restaurant could have filtered the crap out, and you bet we're going to be complaining to the manager as well as everyone else. <_<

[ERJAK2]

Brahlis wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...
Aaaand we come back to the changes to Tali and Garrus, whether you feel they were out of character or not. 

Also to complaints about planet exploration, combat, inventory management...

We don't come back to anything. That's be effectively rebuked time and time again in this thread and in others.

It just amazes me that this thread just keeps going. And going. And going.

Oh yes, Mr. Woo:

StanleyWoo wrote...
You are absolutely correct. It is not our job to parent the child or
determine what content is acceptable or unacceptable for our players.
But on the other hand, it is not your job to dictate what content we
include or don’t include in our games. Game development is not a
collaborative effort between developers and gamers; it is a
dictatorship, where we alone determine what content goes into our game.
You the player make the choice whether that content is acceptable to
you (and/or your family) or not.

You'r sig defeats every point made in that argument oh ye of obvious contradictions. 

[Myrmedus]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

ERJAK2 wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Khavos wrote...

DeathCultArm wrote...

Bad comparison...

No, it isn't.  At all.  You just stated that there shouldn't be a bisexual male character because then male players who didn't like bisexuals wouldn't be able to use him in their squad.

What about racists who don't like black people? 

Come on.  You walked right ****ing into it, I want to watch you squirm. 

Squirm? If there wan't a minority character, agai the same rules would apply. Black's aren't the majority, so they aren't going to be caterd to, or necessiarly represented in a meduim dominted by white males.

And any validity any argument you would of or have made is GONE! Congratulations, you are now a racist on top of being homophobic. This is one of the most common arguments against blacks, asians, mexicans, jews, italians,  arabics, etc, etc, in the media, forever. The American(don't know about the other places) de jure(of the law) expression is "Majority rules with minority rights." Go play a banjo or something.

So b/c I wouldn't be depressed if a minority character was in the game i'm a racist. No, i'm just not as self-righteous as everyone else. it's a game and it doesn't matter who wants what. But throwing around the term randomly isn't necessary.

Something to consider, however, is that there is active racism/prejudice and... I guess more passive? In other words, not standing up and taking a stand. That's a lot better than saying GRR I HATE BLACKS GAYS WOMEN ETC, but on the other hand, silence or acceptance will not always change the world. Sometimes it's good to say, "Hey, you know what, this isn't cool." 

I'm not sure I totally like the idea of calling the silently accepting type racists, homophobic, whatever... but at the same time, I wouldn't call them particularly progressive either, and I can sort of understand why people would call you a racist, because while you may not preach hatred, you don't stand up against it either.

Of course, you may do so in your own ways apart from the game. That's fine. But rather than writing us off as being too worked up over a game, think instead that we are dissecting a very real social problem - a wart, if you will - that has popped up in a game we love. It's like if the water in a city is polluted, and we go to our favorite restaurant only to find the water has a rat floating in it. Yes, the blame is more with the city, but the restaurant could have filtered the crap out, and you bet we're going to be complaining to the manager as well as everyone else. <_<

It's basically racist attitude vs. racist actions.

[Kolaris8472]

Tali, no. Garrus, maybe....

The only thing I can say is that Garrus is Turian so maybe there was always a little bit of a barrier between you in ME1 considering the frosty relations between your two races. Since then you could argue that barrier has melted away a little (you likes my temperature imagery? )

I didn't mean their characters at all. I mean that they were not planned as romance interests but fan clamoring changed that.

Brahlis wrote...

Kolaris8472 wrote...
Aaaand we come back to the changes to Tali and Garrus, whether you feel they were out of character or not. 

Also to complaints about planet exploration, combat, inventory management...

We don't come back to anything. That's be effectively rebuked time and time again in this thread and in others.

It just amazes me that this thread just keeps going. And going. And going.

Oh yes, Mr. Woo:

The use of reaction images is hardly endearing outside of /b/ 

Woo is talking about fans demanding something of BioWare. That is no guarantee it will be changed. To think that BioWare does not take into account anything its fans ask for is COMPLETELY moronic. 

[Myrmedus]

Kolaris8472 wrote...

Tali, no. Garrus, maybe....

The only thing I can say is that Garrus is Turian so maybe there was always a little bit of a barrier between you in ME1 considering the frosty relations between your two races. Since then you could argue that barrier has melted away a little (you likes my temperature imagery? )

I didn't mean their characters at all. I mean that they were not planned as romance interests but fan clamoring changed that.

Yeah I know sorry I was just commenting whether they felt like retcon....

I actually don't know why I did though. This is the by-product of being up at 5:15am I guess :/

[Grunt420]

some of you need some real romance in you life cause if your arguing about romance in a video game for over 30 pages thats sad go find a girl or a man whatever floats your boat

[Brahlis]

SomeIdiotSaid...
You'r sig defeats every point made in that argument oh ye of obvious contradictions. 

That response has already been discussed at length earlier in the thread. Don't feel like copying and pasting my reply.

Nice try, though, champ.

Kolaris8472 wrote...
The use of reaction images is hardly endearing outside of /b/

What exactly is /b/?

Modifié par Brahlis, 08 février 2010 - 05:16 .

[_000Darkstar]

I would like to put forth a hypothetical situation to those who are against the homosexual relationships in ME:



Say ME1 & ME2 were EXACTLY the same games that they are now, except Bioware made the choice for Asari to be a male-only race. Also, LI's are limited to homosexual relationships (except for FemSheps). In ME1 ManSheps can only romance "Leo"(Liara) or Kaiden. FemSheps get "Leo" or Ashley. They then do the same thing in ME2

Male -> Jacob, Garrus, Thane, "fling" with new male secretary

Fem -> Jack, Miranda, Tali, "fling" with new male secretary



Keep in mind that this is the EXACT same ME in terms of gameplay, story, graphics. The only thing that has changed is that same-sex relationships are now the norm of game. Those who tell the pro same-sex croud to shut up and get over it, don't you DARE tell me you wouldn't be on these boards complaining and claimoring for male heterosexual relationships, calling Bioware heterophobes and bigots even though it's Bioware's "right" to completely invalidate a group of their fans with these kinds of decisions. The truth is, the LI aspect of the game IS important to a lot of people and just because this doesn't effect YOU personally doesn't make it any less wrong.



tl;dr Put yourself in someone else's place, show a little empathy for them, and STFU.

[locsphere]

Omg, I don't care if its in or out, but does it really have to be a debate? You have sex with aliens how much more equal opportunity can it get?

[DeathCultArm]

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Something to consider, however, is that there is active racism/prejudice and... I guess more passive? In other words, not standing up and taking a stand. That's a lot better than saying GRR I HATE BLACKS GAYS WOMEN ETC, but on the other hand, silence or acceptance will not always change the world. Sometimes it's good to say, "Hey, you know what, this isn't cool." 

I'm not sure I totally like the idea of calling the silently accepting type racists, homophobic, whatever... but at the same time, I wouldn't call them particularly progressive either, and I can sort of understand why people would call you a racist, because while you may not preach hatred, you don't stand up against it either.

Of course, you may do so in your own ways apart from the game. That's fine. But rather than writing us off as being too worked up over a game, think instead that we are dissecting a very real social problem - a wart, if you will - that has popped up in a game we love. It's like if the water in a city is polluted, and we go to our favorite restaurant only to find the water has a rat floating in it. Yes, the blame is more with the city, but the restaurant could have filtered the crap out, and you bet we're going to be complaining to the manager as well as everyone else. <_<

So I should be compelled to stand against alll wrongs and go out fo my way to always the defend the postivie outlook on everything. This is supoosed to be a ME2 forum. I shouldn't be judged based on a converstaion about a game b/c that's very hypocritical. If someone is getting murdered and you don't prevent it, you're not a murderer.

But alas I should've expected bias. It's easier to call someone a racist then it to to try an understand the neutral side they're taking.

[UsagiVindaloo]

Cajeb wrote...

I don't personally mind the absence of M/M relationships, but I do think they should be included. However I think it should be an in character thing. It shouldn't be a completely straight character being gay in another playthrough. Either write in a bisexual relationship ala Zevran or write in an actually gay character. Not just a Kaiden or Jacob who mysteriously turns gay depending on dialogue options.

I've had a lot of time to think about the, "turning a straight character gay," thanks to lots of exposure to fanfiction and fandom in general (I prefer m/f relationships but have seen plenty of m/m). One common response to this that keeps coming up is... at what point did the characters indicate that they were 100%, absolutely cross my heart and hope to die straight? Yes, they have shown interest in women... but that doesn't mean they're exempt from showing interest in men as well. The Kinsey scale is, in fact, a scale, and it's perfectly possible for a man to show interest in women (lots of women!) while still potentially having feelings for another man (be it just in general, or for one particular man).


Now, having said that, I will actually admit that yes, I can see the reasoning behind NOT making Kaiden bisexual... but only because I saw what happens when you try to suggest a threesome. Kaiden does seem like a very restrained, traditional sort, and while I could certainly see (and have read!) good stories exploring how he might like guys, this is one case I'm willing to give to Bioware. If the man was too tightlaced to agree to hawt femShep/Liara/Kaiden threesomes, he's probably not going to give manlove a chance either. 

Too bad, though... I really liked the datamined love scene with him and male Shep. After trying out Liara, I totally would gone for him (Ash will, as always, die in the fires of Virmire >.>)

[SpideyKnight]

Brahlis wrote...

This thread is gay.

I knew it wouldn't be long before it was said, though I was expecting an image.  Well played anyway sir, sometimes the simple stuff just needs to be said.

[ERJAK2]

Grunt420 wrote...

some of you need some real romance in you life cause if your arguing about romance in a video game for over 30 pages thats sad go find a girl or a man whatever floats your boat

Go play call of duty please. You're actually worse than the people who come here and say **** them ***s, this game has romances, some of us find them important to the characters and the story. 

Beyond that, try naming every movie/television show/book that had a (NON-interactive) romance sub-plot and tell me that fictional romances have no merit.

[ERJAK2]

DeathCultArm wrote...

UsagiVindaloo wrote...

Something to consider, however, is that there is active racism/prejudice and... I guess more passive? In other words, not standing up and taking a stand. That's a lot better than saying GRR I HATE BLACKS GAYS WOMEN ETC, but on the other hand, silence or acceptance will not always change the world. Sometimes it's good to say, "Hey, you know what, this isn't cool." 

I'm not sure I totally like the idea of calling the silently accepting type racists, homophobic, whatever... but at the same time, I wouldn't call them particularly progressive either, and I can sort of understand why people would call you a racist, because while you may not preach hatred, you don't stand up against it either.

Of course, you may do so in your own ways apart from the game. That's fine. But rather than writing us off as being too worked up over a game, think instead that we are dissecting a very real social problem - a wart, if you will - that has popped up in a game we love. It's like if the water in a city is polluted, and we go to our favorite restaurant only to find the water has a rat floating in it. Yes, the blame is more with the city, but the restaurant could have filtered the crap out, and you bet we're going to be complaining to the manager as well as everyone else. <_<

So I should be compelled to stand against alll wrongs and go out fo my way to always the defend the postivie outlook on everything. This is supoosed to be a ME2 forum. I shouldn't be judged based on a converstaion about a game b/c that's very hypocritical. If someone is getting murdered and you don't prevent it, you're not a murderer.

But alas I should've expected bias. It's easier to call someone a racist then it to to try an understand the neutral side they're taking.

GONE!