968 réponses à ce sujet

[wizardryforever]

Seriously, what's the big deal?  So your male Shepard can't be gay, it really not worth all the griping.  This game is not supposed to be about the romance anyway, it is supposed to tell a story and be interactive and fun at the same time.  Just because they didn't add a "gay" romance option does not mean that anything conspiratorial is afoot.  There are already six, count em, SIX romances in the game presently.  I personally think that is plenty, especially since Tali's and Garrus' make little sense logistically. 

For those offended by the use of the word "normal," bear in mind that from a biological standpoint, heterosexuality is "normal."  Homosexuality is not bad because of that, as no one said there was anything wrong with not being "normal."  "Normality" is overrated anyway.

And from a pessimistic perspective, there are many people out there who are much more offended by m/m relationships than by f/f relationships.  Most of these people ARE homophobic ****s who may not realize the extent of their homophobia, but they are a significant portion of the population.  It just makes good marketing sense to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible.

It is also true that gamers are not entitled to the romance of their choice.  RPGs don't automatically include romances, and there are some good ones out there that don't have them, or they're done poorly.  Accept romance options for what they are, icing on the cake that is ME2.

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Forwen wrote...

77boy84 wrote...

There actually IS a canon revan though.

Yeah, and what I'm saying is that I suspect BioWare are slowly drifting towards a canon Shepard by gradually limiting role-playing choices, which I feel already started by looking at how Shep was written in ME1 as compared to 2. Doesn't concern m/m since it was never in there in the first place, but the way Muzyka worded his answer just added to my suspicion.

You reckon I don't make sense? That response of yours there doesn't make sense.

We still make our choices. New players obviously get a more 'canon' shep because they aren't going to know about the previous events are they so what does it really matter? If they want to get involved with changing the 'canon' its simple, they get the previous game and make THEIR OWN canon which is what we've been able to do from ME.

As you said yourself, in ME there was no M/M romance so how can they possible limit RP choices in ME2 when the limit is already reached?

[Movodor]

Brahlis wrote...

Shavon wrote...
The only problem with that is, they have included dialogue writing for m/m romance scenes, and they were cut last minute for one reason or another.  So that is out.

Cut at the last minute? How do you know it was the last minute? It could've been something that was considered at the begining and then cut out mid-way through because they decided they didn't want to do it. Don't sensationalize it.

Here's what we do know: In the past two games it wasn't been there. It's a pretty damn good indication that they don't want it in this trilogy. It makes sense not to start it up if it wasn't in the past two games.

In future ME games past the trilogy? I think we'll see it, personally.

'mid way' is not 'near to completion'.
the dialogue was voiced through and through, and any attempts by us forumgoers to explain it is inevitably just guessing one way or the other.

[jlb524]

SwobyJ wrote...

The female Shepard is obviously into men, that asari was just a 'different thing'. O.K.

My Female Shepard is definitely not into men, and she gets the chance to affirm this in ME1 and ME2.

[the_devils_aid]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Anthropophobic wrote...

The Codex in the first game specifically says that asari are all female. The stages of their lives are all feminine words, two of which come from the Latin word mater, which means "mother." Plus, they've got boobs. They're female.

It's one thing to say asari are not "technically female".

It's quite another to say that a human female / asari romance is not a F/F relationship as far as the human would consider it. Let's face it, the asari are generally even more feminine than the human females of Mass Effect. They tend to have prettier and more traditionally attractive features as well. Even the somewhat more androgynous looking Aria has those skin tight pants showing off very feminine legs. And high heels, IIRC.

the fact is, they have no male-looking-people in their race, so too them its natural. a human might consider it lesbian, but as far as they are concerned its just an everyday thing. so its not really gay. its just asari being asari.

you can hope for more, but you wouldnt see an asari dragged to a pro-lesbian rally, cause to the asari, its just a relationship.

anyhow, shepard should not be gay. the story is SOOO much better without having to deal with garus/jacob hitting on you after you do their loyalty mission every playthrough.

[jlb524]

SwobyJ wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

The female Shepard is obviously into men, that asari was just a 'different thing'. O.K.

My Female Shepard is definitely not into men, and she gets the chance to affirm this in ME1 and ME2.

Yes, that was my point. I used sarcasm.

Ooops, sorry.

Oh wait, I was just affirming your point...yeah  

[Brahlis]

Well said, Wizardry.

Modifié par Brahlis, 07 février 2010 - 06:19 .

[the_devils_aid]

jlb524 wrote...

SwobyJ wrote...

The female Shepard is obviously into men, that asari was just a 'different thing'. O.K.

My Female Shepard is definitely not into men, and she gets the chance to affirm this in ME1 and ME2.

in ME2, im not so sure. ive seen plenty of shows and heard plenty of stories where females just grow close as "Sisters". why did they stay up so late? playing monoploy! why does she dress in a dancers uniform? its the dancing fashion! why does she sleep with you in your bed? you here "sister"! why does she sit in your lap? telling you a secret!

and asari cant be lesbians

[Inverness Moon]

Brahlis wrote...

Well said, Wizardry.

Was going to say that your avatar was fitting until you edited your post.

[the_devils_aid]

wizardryforever wrote...

Seriously, what's the big deal?  So your male Shepard can't be gay, it really not worth all the griping.  This game is not supposed to be about the romance anyway, it is supposed to tell a story and be interactive and fun at the same time.  Just because they didn't add a "gay" romance option does not mean that anything conspiratorial is afoot.  There are already six, count em, SIX romances in the game presently.  I personally think that is plenty, especially since Tali's and Garrus' make little sense logistically. 

For those offended by the use of the word "normal," bear in mind that from a biological standpoint, heterosexuality is "normal."  Homosexuality is not bad because of that, as no one said there was anything wrong with not being "normal."  "Normality" is overrated anyway.

And from a pessimistic perspective, there are many people out there who are much more offended by m/m relationships than by f/f relationships.  Most of these people ARE homophobic ****s who may not realize the extent of their homophobia, but they are a significant portion of the population.  It just makes good marketing sense to appeal to as broad of an audience as possible.

It is also true that gamers are not entitled to the romance of their choice.  RPGs don't automatically include romances, and there are some good ones out there that don't have them, or they're done poorly.  Accept romance options for what they are, icing on the cake that is ME2.

quoted cause i like it

[Lord Atlia]

Really looking at ME and DA:O series, there is a more canonical Shepard than people think. I agree partially with Ray's assessment as the paragon/renegade options are usually just 2 different ways to approach the same situation with the same intended outcome (there are outliers to this as well). In DA:O you could butcher werewolves, butcher elves, or make peace between the two and there were dozens of scenes like this (templars/mages, who is king, did you destroy the urn, did Wynne or Leliana stand up to you, what is up with that Jowan fellow, and so on). I'm not saying what they did was right but that his argument is partly sensible, in ME roleplaying is limited to how you approach a situation and will not always result in multiple outcomes. On another note, what is with all the EA bashing, didn't EA publish Dante's Inferno, that is bound to send up more red alerts at Fox News than homosexuality ever would.

[Default137]

Yet there is a lesbian relationship.

So.....

Lesbian is alright for our Shepards image, that doesn't matter, because guy writers find the image of two chicks getting it on fairly hot, but the second its two maleSheps, its suddenly "breaking Shepards image" and "ruining the character"

Bull****, plain and simple, they just don't want to make a gay relationship, and are trying to make exscuses why.

Honestly, I don't mind if they don't make a gayShep, I honestly don't, largely because it has no impact whatsoever on the storyline or how the game goes, if they don't want to write out a gay romance, its their choice there, and I don't really care either way.

But when they make two lesbian romances, then basically come out and say that making Shep gay would "ruin his image"? Thats some nice social sterotyping you got going on over their Bioware, obviously, all gays are evil to, and ruin gods world, and should be gassed, best choice for them right? Don't want to put them in a Bioware game, oh no, it would ruin Shepards image if you wanted him to be bi, and there just so happened to be a gay crewmember on the ship, I mean, if you add the choice, its obvious pure untainted children will try flirting with the gay crewmember, and get ENRAGED about the fact they can sex him up.

Modifié par Default137, 07 février 2010 - 06:29 .

[Mox Ruuga]

the_devils_aid wrote...

the fact is, they have no male-looking-people in their race, so too them its natural. a human might consider it lesbian, but as far as they are concerned its just an everyday thing. so its not really gay. its just asari being asari.

you can hope for more, but you wouldnt see an asari dragged to a pro-lesbian rally, cause to the asari, its just a relationship.

...

My point exactly. For the human involved, it is a lesbian relationship. In this case, for the frigging main character. I don't know where the "going to rallies" bit came from. Unless you think that every gay person out there is always rubbing their gayness in your face. FemShep is far too busy for that sort of thing.

anyhow, shepard should not be gay. the story is SOOO much better without having to deal with garus/jacob hitting on you after you do their loyalty mission every playthrough.

Sigh. I can imagine straight women gamers are not all that thrilled when Shiala flirts with FemShep and caresses her arm. But they seem to bear it with good grace.

Besides, if they did end up giving us a gay option, I'm betting they would make it so that the player would have to initiate it. Or like was done with Zevran, he would bring it up once, and you could choose to a) accept and be interested, be angry and refuse, c) be polite and refuse, or d) not understand the whole thing. In all cases except a), the matter would not be brought up again. This would be borderline insulting towards the gay gamers, but at least there would be something. And it's not just gay men. Straight women like m/m just as much as we men like f/f. Even if you play as the other gender, you still find the opposite of your own RL gender attractive.

[Brahlis]

Default137 wrote...
Bull****, plain and simple, they just don't want to make a gay relationship, and are trying to make exscuses why.

Ding, ding, ding, ding!

So stop your complaining. It's their game.

[WarmachineX0]

Meh, if your Shepard is gay, play them gay. That doesn't mean everybody on your team has to be gay.

[marshalleck]

I don't see why this should quell anyone. People are allowed to express what they'd like to see in future Bioware games whether you agree with it or not.

[Anthropophobic]

What is annoying is that some people think BioWare should be exempt from criticism when they make a more mainstream, fast-paced, action-packed game and suddenly break from their trend of including gay options. People call them out for it. They call them out for including f/f options but not m/m options. They then tell us things like, "asari aren't technically female" or "Mass Effect is a third person narrative, lol."

Maybe we will see m/m options in later Mass Effect games, when the inclusion of male homosexual relationships in their video games doesn't pose as much of a threat to their profits. Until then, they ought to be criticized. Or at least until they admit they're specifically trying not to scare away the Gears of War crowd. Right now, they just look like politicians trying to please as many people as they can, and there are definitely more homophobes than homosexuals out there.

"And that's why I hate politicians," as Ashley says in ME1.

Modifié par Anthropophobic, 07 février 2010 - 06:35 .

[Brahlis]

Anthropophobic wrote...
Maybe we will see m/m options in later Mass Effect games, when the inclusion of male homosexual relationships in their video games don't pose as much of a threat to their profits. Until then, they ought to be criticized. Or at least until they admit they're specifically trying not to scare away the Gears of War crowd.

Don't make me laugh.

They should be criticized because they're not catering to your tastes or a small crowd's tastes? Please do everyone a favor and get over yourself.

[Adon 9]

Brahlis wrote...

It's from the IGN artcile posted earlier.
And I hope nobody misinterprets me using "quell". I simply mean that they pretty much answered your all's question.

But... it doesn't really.  In the quote, they say Shepard is pretty much defined as a character, yet this is patently untrue.  Shepard can be male or female, a saint or a jerk all depending on the player's choices.  Shepard's personality is FAR from etched in stone, so for them to claim otherwise in order to say 'nope, no gay option' comes across as a copout non-answer to me.

[Voicebox]

the_devils_aid wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Anthropophobic wrote...

The Codex in the first game specifically says that asari are all female. The stages of their lives are all feminine words, two of which come from the Latin word mater, which means "mother." Plus, they've got boobs. They're female.

It's one thing to say asari are not "technically female".

It's quite another to say that a human female / asari romance is not a F/F relationship as far as the human would consider it. Let's face it, the asari are generally even more feminine than the human females of Mass Effect. They tend to have prettier and more traditionally attractive features as well. Even the somewhat more androgynous looking Aria has those skin tight pants showing off very feminine legs. And high heels, IIRC.

the fact is, they have no male-looking-people in their race, so too them its natural. a human might consider it lesbian, but as far as they are concerned its just an everyday thing. so its not really gay. its just asari being asari.

you can hope for more, but you wouldnt see an asari dragged to a pro-lesbian rally, cause to the asari, its just a relationship.

anyhow, shepard should not be gay. the story is SOOO much better without having to deal with garus/jacob hitting on you after you do their loyalty mission every playthrough.

Actually it is gay. Asari are an all female race it states it in the codex, and the definition of gay is someone who is attracted to another person of the same gender as their own. So its gay, wether its normal for the asari or not doesn't change that its gay. Asari may not see it as gay or straight, but sir if they decided to take away an asari's rights for wanting to be with a krogan or a female human I'm certain they would fight for those rights. And maybe it wouldn't be a lesbian rally but some Asari equal rights rally. Either way I do dissaggree with your points.

The cool thing about what bioware created (Although there is no m/m option)is they did create asari. A group of pansexual aliens who don't see a gender and thats a pretty neat statement about people in the real world. Its accepted as normal in the Mass Effect universe. So I am against people saying this is anti gay.

However I think his reason for not having a m/m relationship is pretty dumb. Its long winded and doesn't really explain a lot. I am dissapointed that they're not considering the option is in Jade Empire and Dragon age. However Bioware has done more for the gay community with their games than a lot of other games out there. I will reserve judgement until Mass Effect 3 is out.

[Mox Ruuga]

Brahlis wrote...


Don't make me laugh.

They should be criticized because they're not catering to your tastes or a small crowd's tastes? Please do everyone a favor and get over yourself.

A Tali fan I see.

Your inevitable reaction to her not being a squaddie in ME3 will be interesting to see in light of the quoted post...

[jlb524]

After reading this 'horse crap', I don't expect m/m romances in ME3. I doubt there will be any significant human female/FemShep f/f either. They'll continue to hide behind the 'asari aren't really females' crap and only provide a continuation of the Liara/FemShep romance (not that I'm complaining b/c I seriously want this romance to continue, but I now don't expect any new ones).