44 réponses à ce sujet

[TekFanX]

First off: I totally like the new weapons and the new costumisation-options in ME2(allthough there could be more different weapons and armor-parts).

The problem I've encountered is the role of powers in ME2.

I'm on my second playthrough with the same char(sentinel), now for seeing more deeply into gameplay than story.
I don't think we have to argue about BioWares abilities in story-telling.

So now about the gameplay:

The weapons rock, but I think they got a little too much attention from the devs.
Surely the balancing between them is great:
Heavy pistols give good armor-dmg on mid to short ranges.
SMG's are the shieldbreakers for short distance.
Assaultrifles are mid-class in everything on nearly all ranges.
Sniper-rifles...the headshot-machines^^
Shotguns...shortrange shield-killers.
Heavy weapons get the job done.
And then we have the ammo-powers to do some more attribute-enhancing on them.
I haven't played with the advanced weapons of the soldier yet, but heard pretty nice things about them.

But if I compare what nice features and destruction-abilities the weapons got and what the powers are doing, I'm a little bit disappointed.

Except these:

Throw: I just think this thing kicks a**.
There's nothing like curving it arround something to crush a Loki-Mech against a wall.

Warp: Pretty nice for stripping down armor or biotic barriers. It also one-shots many unprotected enemies, so this power is kinda nice.

Incinerate: Nice to take armor or unprotected enemies down, but a bit hard on the cooldown.

Shockwave: Nice against unprotected enemies or shields.

But:

Overload:
The overload is nothing compared to the weapons. The brief weapon-overload isn't worth the cooldown-time mostly.
It's just barely neccessary, since nothing with a shotgun survives the weapon-fire long enough to become dangerous enough as that an weapon-overload could do something.
The damage it does on synthetics is barely more than the warp.
It's just a bit usefull on enemy-engineers or smaller geths.
The YMIR is better stripped with the SMG or AR and then shot with incendary-armor or heavy weapons.
But then you have less enemies with shields than Armor or Barriers...the overload is a bit to useless to put much points into it.
It's also pretty useless for the suicide-mission.
Not to mention it's not curveable.

Pull:
It's kinda nice to keep the enemies from firing for some time and the combo with the Throw is fun.
But then the up-closure is too slow to take down an enemy fast.
Plus the uselessness on heavy enemies: If you stand long enough to strip down shields/barriers and armor, it's mostly useless to make the enemy hover, since it's killed fast.

Freezings: 
Yeah...the Stasis-Replacer.
It's better than stasis though, since the enemy is still vulnerable, but since the AI makes the enemies take hidings pretty good, the freezing is mostly making them stay there for a while.
Also the power is once again just usefull on unprotected enemies(as far as I've seen).


To say it short:
The Idea with "this protects you from that" is nice. But many powers become just useless.
The Overload is crappy, compared to the disruptor-ammo and lacks the curving like the other abilities.
There are not enough shielded enemies to think it's worth spending much points in it.
Freezing is just for fun, lacking the tactical thought a bit. If you get an dangerous enemy down to the point you can freeze it, it's mostly easier to beat it with weapons and use another power for another enemy.

What I liked in ME1 was, that the weapons felt nice, but never overpowered the powers. Now you can do everything as good or better with the weapons, except the powers that are able to be curved.
The weapons are sure nice now and I won't complain about them, but I miss the powers being something special.

We see Samara glide with her biotics, biotic storms cause destruction in her fight with her daughter.
I don't get that powerfull feeling while playing.
I feel like a Shepard that launches small energy-balls from his/her hands, not powerfull biotics/techs.
But when I wield a weapon, it just rocks.
Would be nice to see the powers close up to that feeling.

Modifié par TekFanX, 07 février 2010 - 11:50 .

[tmunoz4]

I don't know, on my sentinel run through I was always using overload (maxed to 10, area overload). It breaks shield protections effectively and gives a nice breather which is good for insanity. Not to mention you just pop out of cover for like a second to apply the effect.



For pull, I think that by itself it's kinda lackluster, but mix in warp and it's a beast. I use overload to bring down the shields, then do a pull + warp combo and a bunch of enemies just fly.



I don't know, i love the powers in ME2. Oh except for the cryo skills. lol.

[Maxiric]

Overload is for shielded enemies, as well as synthetics. It also is an area attack, where as warp is single target only. It does the exact same damage as warp, though double damage to shields. It can also be used to blow up things.



Pull is not incredibly useful, but its serves it purpose as a basic I win button against unshielded/armored enemies. They basically don't exist in HC and Insanity but thats not really the skills fault.



Cryo anything is horrible, this is true.

[RamsenC]

Overload is useful on Insanity since almost everything has a shield. Level 3 overload will pretty much pop any shield instantly.

Also Cryo Blast isn't that bad. Its useful on enemies that are still kind of a threat with all defenses down, such as Krogans and Mechs. Its also nice for keeping an enemy outside of cover if you catch them when they pop out. Throw is nice for the short cooldown and smacking people out of cover. Neither ability is that great, but I would take Cryo over throw on Sentinel.

Modifié par RamsenC, 08 février 2010 - 03:02 .

[Hiero Glyph]

The skills vary in utility depending upon the difficulty level. For Insanity, Warp, Overload and even Incinerate are very important while Throw, Shockwave, Pull, etc. are less useful.

[RPJer001]

Playing on insanity, I feel the powers are just fine vs guns. You cannot poop out of cover for very long when facing multiple enemies so powers do more damage, shield and armor busting for the amount of time you are exposed to fire.

[TekFanX]

RPJer001 wrote...

Playing on insanity, I feel the powers are just fine vs guns. You cannot poop out of cover for very long when facing multiple enemies so powers do more damage, shield and armor busting for the amount of time you are exposed to fire.

"Poop" out of cover? Lolz....that surely was a nice typeing-error XD.

But back on topic:

I know, shield-stripping is great.
But the damage overload does to synthetics is a joke if you keep in mind, that it's meant to fry those things.
Overload is less strong than a weapon that aims for the head of the synthetic and needs more time to reload.
But most times an AR or SMG do the job as good and fast and leave the powers for other targets.
I don't really like that.
In ME1 you could use throw to just clear a room or the Overload for a full squad of geth.

Now the weapons somehow do the job quite faster and more impressive.

I just like the powers to be a little more POWERS again.
No need to nerf the weapons, but in my opinion the powers shouldn't stand behind when it comes to fighting.

Plus: if you launch the cain in ME2, it's just breathtaking.
But if you compare the singularity of ME1 with the one from ME2, I don't know if I should laugh or shake my head.

[lessthanjake9]

I think it would be a little bit more balanced if certain powers did have a decent effect still even on an enemy with defenses. So like, maybe a throw would still throw, but just with a lot less force. A cryo blast would still freeze, but just for a lot less time. Pull would still pull, but only for a second or two etc etc. This would allow those powers to keep some worth on hardcore/insanity. Yes, they would have their best purpose as a finishing move to an enemy down to just health, BUT they would still give you some decent CC even with defenses on the enemies.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 08 février 2010 - 07:29 .

[DragoonKain3]

In ME1 you could use throw to just clear a room or the Overload for a full squad of geth.

Uhh... overload damage in ME1 had patethic normal damage. You only used it really for shields, which pretty much strips anything. But it didn't do much against the Geth in ME1, unlike here, where it does decent damage to unarmored geth, on top of having weapon overheat/stun.

[Hiero Glyph]

TekFanX wrote...

Now the weapons somehow do the job quite faster and more impressive.

I just like the powers to be a little more POWERS again.

One small note is that the abilities can be auto-targeted and fired from behind cover while shooting an enemy requires aiming, sustained fire and exposing yourself for slightly longer.  On Insanity this is simply not an option and will result in your death.  I think that the balance is just fine in terms of strength but Bioware needs to make the enemies stronger without making every single one have armor/shields/barriers as a way of making them harder.  The overall balance of ME2 is just lacking as enemy defense handicaps abilities but not weapons.

Imagine using an SMG against an armored enemy and having the bullets do almost no damage; or how about using a heavy pistol against a shield and watching the bullets not penetrate at all.  Anyway, the weaknesses of abilities are blatantly obvious while weapons are able to offset theirs quite easily.  Even on Insanity I had no problem stripping armor using an SMG.  Add in AP or Warp Ammo and it was quite good for everything.  Now if I tried to take away shields with Warp or armor with Overload it simply would not work well.

[coinop25]

DragoonKain3 wrote...
Uhh... overload damage in ME1 had patethic normal damage. You only used it really for shields, which pretty much strips anything. But it didn't do much against the Geth in ME1, unlike here, where it does decent damage to unarmored geth, on top of having weapon overheat/stun.

Pretty sure Overload in ME1 damaged shields and also lowered damage resistance (plus the passive bonus of boosting your own shields and letting you hack into probes). One of the best powers in that game.

I haven't actually noticed any weapon overheating effects in ME2, maybe because there's always SOMEONE left to shoot at me.

Back to the topic at hand of weapons vs. powers … it does seem kind of odd on higher difficulty levels that you need to get an enemy very close to death to be able to use your powers at all. I can see shields and barriers blocking biotics, but I wish armor worked more like a percent chance to resist powers than a guarantee of resistance (e.g., you have x% chance to resist biotics, where x = % of your armor remaining).

[DragoonKain3]

Whatever Overload did in ME1, it certainly did not clear a room full of Geth all by itself, contrary to what OP claims. It was (and remains in ME2) an anti-shield power primarily. The fact that it acts as a damage/CC to geth is secondary, and its decent enough as it is because its has an AoE effect as well that it does not need any more buffing.



Basically, OP wants to return powers to what it once was. Overload, when used as an ability, is probably the one power that most closely resembles its ME1 version. In fact, it can be argued that its actually been buffed in comparison to its ME1 version, so I don't see what's the problem here.

[lessthanjake9]

Overload was good in ME1. It basically stripped shields completely (or against something with A LOT of shielding like an Armature, it did A LOT of damage to the shields) while also doing like 150 damage (200 with Operative). It had a really huge radius so this basically meant that everything suddenly had no shields and had some good damage done to it. Furthermore, it was ALSO about half as effective as Warp at taking away damage protection, but with about twice the radius of warp.

One Overload and suddenly nothing has any shields, everything takes much more damage, and has taken some solid damage on top of it. In terms of DPS, Overload was really good. It just wasn't ridiculously awesome like Singularity.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 08 février 2010 - 09:09 .

[SmilingMirror]

Overload stuns synthetics and guns in ME2.
It also does the same amount of damage as warp.
I have never had a problem hitting an enemy with heavy overload, its actually easier to hit someone with than heavy warp.
Its only effective against shields however.

the great thing about powers in this game is:
they don't take ammo
they do decent damage without sticking out of cover for long.
you can shoot and use powers at the same time for more damage. (it looks really funny my characters arm gets thrown in the air all weird)

powers are important for surviving insanity.

I will give you cyro blast sucks. Its best used in tandem with another power though.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 08 février 2010 - 09:42 .

[Kenthen]

Cryo blast has some uses on Insanity, a lot of enemies still pose a threat at medium to close distances even with their shields down, at least in the early and middle part of the game. Being able to freeze and shatter them outright saves you time and health.

As for Overloard, I had Garrus use Heavy Overload quite a bit. Against lesser enemies it strips the shield off right away, against stuff like Geth Hunters it helps but isn't absolutely necessary. I don't know how much better it could be without being too good, it does recharge pretty quickly after all.

Modifié par Kenthen, 08 février 2010 - 09:51 .

[Katarian]

DragoonKain3 wrote...

Basically, OP wants to return powers to what it once was. Overload, when used as an ability, is probably the one power that most closely resembles its ME1 version. In fact, it can be argued that its actually been buffed in comparison to its ME1 version, so I don't see what's the problem here.

It has been slightly buffed from ME1, but only because otherwise it'd be useless. In ME1 there were additional benefits from that ability, and you spent a lot more time fighting synthetics then ME2. It has been weakened significantly by the global cooldown, where in ME1 you could fire if off when all your other abilities were on their individual cooldowns for a bit more damage.

[TekFanX]

OK...if most people think, Overload is quite usefull, I won't argue with you. Seem's to be a bit more of personal taste.

Mostly annoying is, that there are much more enemies with Barriers+Armor or just armor. On both, Overload is useless.

A short weapon-block is quite useless, since the AI is smart enough to spread the enemies.

Hard to find more than two small enemies on one place.



Although I agree that you can stay in cover longer with powers, I don't really see the hard point in it.

I mostly played sentinel and switched the weapons through in the collectors-ship, but my buddy played soldier first and told me, he kills YMIR's with his light machinegun as fast as they deplete my shields.



Since most enemies carry Assaultrifles, the shields/barriers mostly deplete faster than the armor would.

Since "Casters" rely on protection like shields and barriers, they get stripped down fast.

I won't argue, that the shields of my sentinel hold pretty long against an YMIR or Praetorian, but then again, they aren't as common as enemies with AR's.

But this has nothing to do with shields/barriers against armor. I haven't played an armored class yet, so I won't go further in it, than what I could see on Grunt or armed enemies.



The simple point I want to state, is that the powers are no longer the epic things they used to be in ME1.

-The almighty Singularity is a little swirl.

-Throw has a bunch of nicely tweaked physics but is pretty useless on anything without a red health-bar. PLUS: Why is it not doing any damage on enemies laying on the ground, when it kills an enemy who is crushed against a close wall?

-Overload strips shields on light enemies(YMIR's take some OL's and tend to be stripped faster via AR or SMG) but there are too less of them.

-Cryo-Powers are nothing but a nice thing on weak enemies or hard opponents who are pretty much down. Since the enemies tend to fall when frozen, the only way it's usefull in Stasis-manner, is combined with throw to get behind the cover.

-Shockwave is a nice firework but then just a throw-line-aoe with good use against shields(I'd even say it's better than Singularity).



The only powers that really feel like POWERS are the class-powers(except singularity of course).

-You cast the Tech-Armor and feel like a behemoth.

-You warp arround and feel like you could smash anything with biotic wrath.

-You Cloak and feel like the perfect covert ups.

-You call a drone and have something that gives you some free time to deal with enemies.

-You use adrenaline and just feel like a beast that has some deadly weaponry in it's hand.



But it just feels like the powers are just a slight addition to the weaponry, not powerfull abilities that change the outcome of a battle.

[DragoonKain3]

-Overload strips shields on light enemies(YMIR's take some OL's and tend to be stripped faster via AR or SMG) but there are too less of them.

Overload every cooldown PLUS firing AR/SMG during cooldown strips shields faster than just shooting AR/SMG alone, guaranteed. That's also assuming you can actually take hits to keep firing AR/SMG; just using Overload every cooldown leaves you with less time out in the open, which is paramount in Insanity.



Seriously, lay Overload to rest. It functions well enough as anti-shield/geth. Sure it does not affect non-geth's health bar, but this is compensated by the fact that it's AoE right out of the box.



And FYI, Heavy Singularity allows you to chain stun all but the biggest targets indefinitely, regardless of protection. Don't think of it how it crap it is compared to ME1 singularity, think of it as ME2's version of Stasis.



Leave those alone, as there are much more useless powers around with protection up, particularly pull/throw/cryo blast/shockwave

[Hiero Glyph]

TekFanX wrote...

OK...if most people think, Overload is quite usefull, I won't argue with you. Seem's to be a bit more of personal taste.
Mostly annoying is, that there are much more enemies with Barriers+Armor or just armor. On both, Overload is useless.

Here is the problem!  We are talking about Rock, Paper, Scissors and you want Overload to be all three.  Seriously, it is not designed to be overpowered like that and serves its role very well.  There are plenty of enemies with shields in the game not to mention synthetic ones.  Overload is fine the way it is now.  If anything Warp is slightly overpowered (needs a slight nerf against armor) but Incinerate and Overload are just fine currently.

[TekFanX]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

TekFanX wrote...

OK...if most people think, Overload is quite usefull, I won't argue with you. Seem's to be a bit more of personal taste.
Mostly annoying is, that there are much more enemies with Barriers+Armor or just armor. On both, Overload is useless.

Here is the problem!  We are talking about Rock, Paper, Scissors and you want Overload to be all three.  Seriously, it is not designed to be overpowered like that and serves its role very well.  There are plenty of enemies with shields in the game not to mention synthetic ones.  Overload is fine the way it is now.  If anything Warp is slightly overpowered (needs a slight nerf against armor) but Incinerate and Overload are just fine currently.

I don't want Overload to do damage on Armor or Barriers, I'd just like to have a bit more balancing regarding the enemy-groups and their defences.
Not that the defence changes on them, but if you don't play on the higher difficulty-ranks, there aren't many shielded enemies.
I'd just like it this way: The same percentage of protection-variants for the enemy-groups(example: 25% shielded enemies, 25% armored enemies, 25% barriered enemies and 25% mixed or unprotected).
If Overload's only purposal is to strip shields, it should be usefull on the same number of enemies as Incinerate or Warp would be(on all difficulties).

Note: I'm playing on normal difficulty, just for chilling a bit.

To grab your example of scissors, paper and rock: There is quite a lot use for paper and rocks, but scissors aren't necessary;).


And what's bothering me too, is the following: In the Collector-Base Overload is pretty useless.
I'm not sure on the Reaper-Larva, but all other enemies are collectors and have nearly no problem with it(that's why I removed that power for the last level except for one point).
I don't want to say:"Hey! Overload is like a lightning, everything should die in it!"
I just want it to be more of a use and not something that works on the minority of enemies on some difficulties.

As I stated before: I want this for all the powers, compared to the weapons.
They should be powerfull in each fight, not just additions.
Note that I say in each fight, not on each enemy.
If the enemies would have shields on all difficulties like they have in insanity, but with less power, Overload could turn out to be pretty usefull. Maybe even boost it's range, so it can take the shields down not just in midrange to give casters with sniper-specialisation(infiltrator or after the collector-ship) a handy tool.

[Hiero Glyph]

Don't forget that you can overload power conduits or use it to overheat an enemy's weapon. Overload has more applications than simply shields. Also, the collector missions are a great example of where Overload is less than useful. If you realize that someone is going to be throwing Rock every single time, why would you bring Scissors?



Likewise the mercenary missions have plenty of sheilds and I can think of many quests that were synthetic heavy. Don't complain because the collector missions don't use shields when so many other missions do.

[TekFanX]

I'm not complaining, it's my oppinion.



Powers should be always usefull and not just additions to the weapons.

Overload is usefull against shields and yeah, you can detonate explosion-crates and such, like most powers can.



In ME1 I could spend points on any power like I wanted it and it always had some use.

IF you know that there won't be scissors needed, then ok...reskill with EZ.

If not, it feels like the power is mostly useless and that's the point I don't like.



You always have every weapon with you and they turn out usefull in any mission.

Shields and Barriers fear the SMG or AR(shotgun in close-range).

Sniper-Headshots do extreme damage.

Armor is depleted with AR and Heavy pistol.



I started playing a soldier yesterday and hey...it's way too easy, compared to the sentinel-class.

Still I play on normal, but I play both chars on normal.

Two shots with Lvl1-Disruptor-Ammo from the heavy pistol and a Loki is gone.



Tactical timing with the reload of the enemies and the smaller Shield is compensated by the higher damage-output(with good aiming of course).



While the Powers contain a lot of lightning-effects and a tweaked aiming-system, weapons just get the job done faster and feel more powerfull than the powers themself.



I want the powers more usefull.

No problem with Warp or Incendary, I stated this earlier.

Throw could do a bit more damage(just a hint).

Although the damage of other powers is almost acceptable on enemies that are weak against the specific power, powers could have more functions so they turn out to be more usefull for casters.

For example Overload could refill or boost the shields if you don't target an enemy(I know, there are already powers for that function) or boost the other techpower's strength or range for a little time(two cryo-shots for example).

Cryo-powers could lessen the ammo-use for a brief time(less reloading) if you don't target an enemy.

An alternative could be, that they could have less effect on protected enemies, but at least some effect.

[PrimeBeefeater]

I agree that the powers have an underwhelming 'feel.' One solution would be to link powers. A level 10 Adept for example could gain level 1 biotic link automatically, allowing said Adept to select a biotic ability which would immediately follow up on the first ability. e.g. player assigns pull to be linked with push so that every time the character casts pull it is immediately followed by a push. This would make the upgrading of powers very tactical and lend to a greater sense of biotics being a real tactical advantage instead of merely an interesting trick.

If ME were real life I would personally be far more afraid of a soldier armed with a weapon capable of rapid firing slugs at 1/10000 the speed of light while protected by 'shields' than chick that can toss me against a wall and then needs 6 seconds to rest. 

[Sodom Gomorrah]

So your major issue is then not with powers, but with tech.



That gives you a seal of approval from me, I've never liked the tech abillities anyway.

[Invalidcode]

Besides biotics could use some adjustment, otherwise power are ok compare to weapon.

Thing with power is that you can chain/combo with yourself and/or teammate, once you do that the powers are really strong and fun to play with.

I only class I haven't played is engineer.

Modifié par Invalidcode, 09 février 2010 - 11:28 .