92 réponses à ce sujet

[holidayc]

Oh and to add to the whole keep technology or destroy it.



I REALLY don't think we'll be fighting the reapers large scale in ME3. Mass Effect isn't an RTS and really does the galaxy have anything that could possibly fight off all of the reapers, (yeah, I know you got a rachni and krogan and geth army potentially, but come on do you really think that spiderpeople and melee experts are going to take down or even confront the reapers in a meaningful manner?)



What is REALLY damn interesting for the series is that. For some reason sovereign wasn't built out of the same indestructable material that the relays were built out of.



Perhaps, the creators made it that way as a fail safe so that if the AI got out of control they could in theory be destroyed?



Really, if the reapers did truely build the relays wouldn't they have built themselves out of the same material?

[Myrmedus]

Haasth wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I like your theory but I think it's wrong because the science is off.

You can't 'create' energy so if the BW writers are trying to make the science in ME anything close to "some-realistic" the Mass Relays won't be 'creating' Dark Energy but simply converting Mass into Dark Energy or vice versa.

In other words, even though I like your theory I don't think it's correct because the Mass Relays don't 'create' Dark Energy out of thin air and therefore won't be disturbing the relative balance of Universal substance. What they do is convert Mass into Dark Energy, for example the Mass of a spacecraft or a path between Relays, and then once the Mass Effect field is disengaged that Dark Energy converts back into Mass.

If this wasn't the case then going into a Mass Relay would give your ship a PERMANENT reduction in Mass, resulting in its potential velocity being permanently FTL. We know this is not the case and thus the original 'rest Mass' of the ship is gained after leaving the Mass Effect field. This additional Mass, once again, doesn't appear out of thin air but is gained from the originally converted Dark Energy.

In layman's terms the effect of a Mass Effect field is temporary and therefore any conversion is also temporary. I definitely think Dark Energy will play a big role in ME3 but I don't think it'll be one of Dark Energy overflowing the Galaxy/Universe. However, I do also agree with the idea that the Reapers are working on a 'grand' and almost protectorate or overseeing scale for the Universe.

You are correct but of course this is science-fiction. Many things are likely to stay fiction forever... but regardless who is to say that the dark matter manipulation does in fact not disrupt the 'natural balance' of things? 

Dark matter will most likely play a big role in Mass Effect 3 and I like the theory mentioned here. 

Another reason I don't think it'll happen is how the story would end: either insinuating that technological progression is bad or that the Reapers are right and we must let them destroy us. If we destroy the Reapers but carry on using Mass Relays then that's not a good ending in any way.

I don' know...usually when you wrap up a trilogy you try to hit a resolution, and having the resolution "the galaxy, nay, the entire Universe is doomed!" is not a good resolution....

[Myrmedus]

holidayc wrote...

Oh and to add to the whole keep technology or destroy it.

I REALLY don't think we'll be fighting the reapers large scale in ME3. Mass Effect isn't an RTS and really does the galaxy have anything that could possibly fight off all of the reapers, (yeah, I know you got a rachni and krogan and geth army potentially, but come on do you really think that spiderpeople and melee experts are going to take down or even confront the reapers in a meaningful manner?)

What is REALLY damn interesting for the series is that. For some reason sovereign wasn't built out of the same indestructable material that the relays were built out of.

Perhaps, the creators made it that way as a fail safe so that if the AI got out of control they could in theory be destroyed?

Really, if the reapers did truely build the relays wouldn't they have built themselves out of the same material?

To be fair we don't know if the Relays are indestructible. We're told the Mu Relay got 'pushed' by a supernova but we have no idea how close to that supernova it was. It could've been on the outer rim of the explosion, like standing several meters away from a grenade explosion it doesn't kill you or cause your body actual damage but simply 'pushes' you away.

I think you might be right that the Mass Relays weren't created by the Reapers though. I'd also argue that it's definitely possible to take down a Reaper with a single team - sound crazy? Well, alot of people have thought of a virus that could kill them but what I propose is that all it depends on is getting close to the Reaper so Shepard can get 'inside'. If he does then he becomes almost like a virus himself, destroying the Reaper from the inside like at the Derelict Reaper.

Of course the question would be: how the feck do you get close to the Reaper without being destroyed. I suppose we'll see!

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 01:48 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Hmm, interesting theory there.

[Vaenier]

If they wanted to get rid of the Relays, why not tow all them into the center of the galaxy?

[holidayc]

Myrmedus wrote...

Haasth wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I like your theory but I think it's wrong because the science is off.

You can't 'create' energy so if the BW writers are trying to make the science in ME anything close to "some-realistic" the Mass Relays won't be 'creating' Dark Energy but simply converting Mass into Dark Energy or vice versa.

In other words, even though I like your theory I don't think it's correct because the Mass Relays don't 'create' Dark Energy out of thin air and therefore won't be disturbing the relative balance of Universal substance. What they do is convert Mass into Dark Energy, for example the Mass of a spacecraft or a path between Relays, and then once the Mass Effect field is disengaged that Dark Energy converts back into Mass.

If this wasn't the case then going into a Mass Relay would give your ship a PERMANENT reduction in Mass, resulting in its potential velocity being permanently FTL. We know this is not the case and thus the original 'rest Mass' of the ship is gained after leaving the Mass Effect field. This additional Mass, once again, doesn't appear out of thin air but is gained from the originally converted Dark Energy.

In layman's terms the effect of a Mass Effect field is temporary and therefore any conversion is also temporary. I definitely think Dark Energy will play a big role in ME3 but I don't think it'll be one of Dark Energy overflowing the Galaxy/Universe. However, I do also agree with the idea that the Reapers are working on a 'grand' and almost protectorate or overseeing scale for the Universe.

You are correct but of course this is science-fiction. Many things are likely to stay fiction forever... but regardless who is to say that the dark matter manipulation does in fact not disrupt the 'natural balance' of things? 

Dark matter will most likely play a big role in Mass Effect 3 and I like the theory mentioned here. 

Another reason I don't think it'll happen is how the story would end: either insinuating that technological progression is bad or that the Reapers are right and we must let them destroy us. If we destroy the Reapers but carry on using Mass Relays then that's not a good ending in any way.

I don' know...usually when you wrap up a trilogy you try to hit a resolution, and having the resolution "the galaxy, nay, the entire Universe is doomed!" is not a good resolution....

Well finding a solution to the problem would be the plot of ME3, keeping the technology and allowing whatever might happen in the future happen doesn't necessarily imply gloom and doom. 

What if the reapers creators were wrong, what if the threat is an old threat that doesnt exist anymore?

But at the same time, the 'red' path in bioware games has always had a grim ending. Jade Empire (you're an evil tyrant), Dragon Age (you've got a morally ambigous super-child walking around), KOTOR (dark sith lord).

[this isnt my name]

Just a thought they left the relays for us to use, and not find alternatives, seems counter productive to the theory.

[holidayc]

Vaenier wrote...

If they wanted to get rid of the Relays, why not tow all them into the center of the galaxy?

Because something anchors them in place. The force of a supernova only shifted a relay. While I think the reapers are advanced, are they advanced enough to replicate the force of a supernova?

[aeetos21]

Naw the reapers are coming becuase...



Shepard: "What's not to like? We have things like passion, beautiful oceans, beautiful women. According to the old vids we have have everything they want."



Or something like that, been a while since I started a new ME1 file.

[J.G]

Wow there are a lot of really good ideas in this thread.

[Myrmedus]

holidayc wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

If they wanted to get rid of the Relays, why not tow all them into the center of the galaxy?

Because something anchors them in place. The force of a supernova only shifted a relay. While I think the reapers are advanced, are they advanced enough to replicate the force of a supernova?

Again I point to the possibility that the force of the supernova may have only been a minor shockwave...it's unlikely the Mu Relay was positioned right next to a star.

However, you may also be right about the Mass Relays now that I think on it. I just realised when bringing up an image of one in my head that they're ALWAYS on, so they're permanently affected by a Mass Effect field and always have a 'bubble' of Dark Energy around them. It's possible that this protects them from harm, since energetic reactions would be dampened by the Dark Energy surrounding them and mass collisions would amount to very little as the mass of the Mass Relay would be so low (it'd be like paper being blown in the wind).

However, all the Reapers would need to do to destroy one is turn it off xD.

I'm still thinking it's over-population spread but it could be something with the Mass Relays too. I find it particularly intriguing that EeZo produces Dark Energy when an electric current is passed through it, and that EeZo is produced from matter being affected by supernova. I see some kind of pattern of thinking there from the writers, some kind of cycle but I can't really work it out.

Modifié par Myrmedus, 08 février 2010 - 01:59 .

[Maxiric]

Concidering sovereign had no problem destroying parts of the citadel that seems unlikely. They also left information from Protheans, that relates to Mass Effect which if they were trying to stop they probably would not do that. Also why program the keepers to keep the citadel running if you don't want people to use them.



Never mind that "indestructable" material is unlikely, all they would have to do is drag them off into dark space and the problem would be solved. It would also be so much easier and nicer to just tell people not to use them, rather than completely wiping out the entire galaxy every 50,000 years or so.

[GnusmasTHX]

Nice.

[Myrmedus]

Maxiric wrote...

Concidering sovereign had no problem destroying parts of the citadel that seems unlikely. They also left information from Protheans, that relates to Mass Effect which if they were trying to stop they probably would not do that. Also why program the keepers to keep the citadel running if you don't want people to use them.

Never mind that "indestructable" material is unlikely, all they would have to do is drag them off into dark space and the problem would be solved. It would also be so much easier and nicer to just tell people not to use them, rather than completely wiping out the entire galaxy every 50,000 years or so.

I explained how they could be indestructable by the way - check my post. It has nothing to do with the material and everything to do with the ME field.

[Bob5312]

At present, there are a number of competing theories for what constitutes the apparently "missing" matter and energy in our universe. Some cosmologists support re-writing the laws of gravity (rather like Einstein did a hundred years ago) while the majority at present believe that matter and energy exist in the universe in a form we cannot detect with current technology. The prevailing theory is called Lambda-CDM: Lambda is Einstein's cosmological constant which drives the accelerated expansion of the universe and would account for the 'dark energy', while CDM is for cold dark matter which accounts for the missing mass in the gravitational profiles of galaxies. The dark matter is assumed to be cold because if it were hot it would radiate electromagnetically and we would detect it.

There is no clear understanding of what the dark matter or dark energy are, but whatever they are the laws of physics as they stand now are likely inadequate to account for them. This gives the writers considerable leeway in explaining FTL travel, for example, by allowing a locally varying speed of light in a mass effect field. This is not included in (most) cosmological models, but there's nothing at present (to my knowledge) that absolutely forbids it.

This game actually does a much better job of explaining the science than almost any science fiction book, game, or movie available that I've seen.

[holidayc]

Also, it does seem the AI went out of control listening to Sovereigns speech at the end of ME1. Perhaps they were created for a noble or necessary reason and since they outlasted their creators this has become perverted. This allows for a safer ending to ME3 because doom isn't as implied.

[casedawgz]

Solid, but it also kinda reminds me of the Forerunners and the Halo rings.

[Series5Ranger]

Remember When the Reapers Attacked the Protheans 50k years ago they Locked out everyone from using the Relays to cause Panic and cut supply lines. (Not applicable to the Normandy SR-2 thanks to the Reaper IFF Installation.) Yours might be the only ship able to travel between Systems in the 3rd game at a later point in ME3. They might have to make the Ending Ambiguous though for the other games set in the ME Universe.

Modifié par Series5Ranger, 08 février 2010 - 02:23 .

[EverteMax]

Nice theory. However, one question though. I remember sovereign saying something to shepard on Virmire that the use of mass relays will allow a civilization to fall into patterns of development as expected by the reapers. If what they wan to do is to keep in check the over development and overuse of whatever the tech is, then why allow the apocalypse cycle to continue? If a species finds a mass relay, obviously it will follow the same way as the previous one and so on...If nothing changes regarding the use of mass relays, then the same results will also occur, which will lead to the reapers coming in to do clean up (as you guys put it). Isn't this a little tiring? Well, maybe that's all they want to do but I find that if this is the case, then the galaxy is really stuck in a very bad never ending cycle.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Haasth wrote...
Wow. I do not know how much consideration you gave this theory but I take my non-existing hat off for you. This is possibly the most interesting and solid theory I have read about regarding the Mass Effect universe so far.

It sounds plausible enough too and would definitely be original. If they would actually go with this I would be very happy as that would leave some dire consequences either way and would actually deem the Reapers not that evil as they are obviously stereotyped with. After all... Destroying life every 50.000 years so that life itself can continue does not seem that evil than simply 'harvesting them' because they can. 

Precisely my sentiments. Congrats to you, OP, I think we have someone who just tied all the facts together really neatly. I'd personally constructed some of this theory on my own as well, but you tying in the Dark Energy stuff totally fills in all the gaps as to WHY the Reapers do this. And I think the first species willingly became a Reaper. They sacrificed many of their species in order to make the first Reaper, or perhaps even Reapers. 

I always thought the MR's and Citadel were Reaper constructs... but if you make it that the Reaper Creators are the construction workers of the Citadel and Relays, and tie in Dark Energy...   

Incredible.

[MobiusTyr]

interesting theory...

[NYG1991]

interesting theory. wonder where the plot would go from there though. defeat the reapers and doom existence or let them annihilate organic life. sorta like a universal environmental crisis with dark energy manipulation killing stars. I never got an impression of the reapers as being servants for good though. it's always seemed like they kill organic life mainly because they think themselves to be the top race in the galaxy so they smack organis down to prevent competition. that's probably why they were making a human reaper, and they wanted shepards body. since shepard and humanity killed sovereign the reapers thought they were granting humanity a great honor by making a human reaper. they were inviting humans to join their ranks because they proved themselves worthy by killing a reaper. i remember the cutscene on horizon when harbinger says to prepare the humans for "ascension" not processing. they were ascending to the ranks of the reaper gods

[Roffkaiser]

Just to quickly post my thoughts on why this theory is wrong, while demands praise for thinking, I would like to put forth two reasons to refute it, one to refute the science part of it and a second one to refute the reasoning behind it even if you accept the science.

The whole reasoning of Dark Energy being a danger to the universe may be realistic, however this would not affect the creators of the reapers or the reapers in any way. The story takes place within the Milky Way Galaxy. Dark Energy, while theoretically causing the expansion of the universe, will not directly affect the Milky Way Galaxy, or the Local Group, and probably won't affect our super cluster. So why care about it? Dark Energy/Matter being used or as you put it "created" in the Milky Way Galaxy won't matter at all in the grand scheme of things unless you want to travel beyond our Super Cluster, which is probably millions of years off in terms of technology and probably worthless.

For the logic of exterminating all galactic civilizations every 50,000 years, I don't understand it. Instead of making a race of super-powerful robo-****'s, why not just move the mass relays? It is obviously possible as the Charon Relay moved after activation. Seems much more logical to move them into a star or something instead of killing all intelligent life to make sure the universe doesn't expand too much therefore destroying all life. Seems kinda stupid to kill all intelligent life to save all life.

Modifié par Roffkaiser, 08 février 2010 - 02:59 .

[holidayc]

Roffkaiser wrote...

Just to quickly post my thoughts on why this theory is wrong, while demands praise for thinking, I would like to put forth two reasons to refute it, one to refute the science part of it and a second one to refute the reasoning behind it even if you accept the science.

The whole reasoning of Dark Energy being a danger to the universe may be realistic, however this would not affect the creators of the reapers or the reapers in any way. The story takes place within the Milky Way Galaxy. Dark Energy, while theoretically causing the expansion of the universe, will not directly affect the Milky Way Galaxy, or the Local Group, and probably won't affect our super cluster. So why care about it? Dark Energy/Matter being used or as you put it "created" in the Milky Way Galaxy won't matter at all in the grand scheme of things unless you want to travel beyond our Super Cluster, which is probably millions of years off in terms of technology and probably worthless.

If whomever designed the reapers was able to build technology to travel darkspace and/or transport with the master relay citadel, its safe to assume that this affects more than just the milkyway.






I think some good information has been posted here to temper the theory a bit. But, I have a feeling its something along these lines given the title of the series. Beyond transportation, I'd like to think they'd call it mass effect for more than just it being a technology in the galaxy.

Modifié par holidayc, 08 février 2010 - 03:08 .

[TheDove]

OP, Im really happy for you, and Ima let you finish but I gotta say...ME3 is gonna have the darkest installment of all time. Darkest installment of all. time!!