92 réponses à ce sujet

[Roffkaiser]

I don't think they came up with a way to travel in darkspace very well, or else it wouldn't take the Reapers much time to get back to the MW Galaxy. Not to mention if they really wanted to they could make relays in every galaxy, with each being a citadel that connected with every other galaxies citadel, and then it wouldn't even matter if the galaxies kept getting further away from each other. To that end I highly doubt this whole theory of dark energy being the bane of the galaxy being true.



I think Mass Effect is a good title for the series because it is the technology with which you are regarded as advanced or not, and the technology with which the Reapers destroy all galactic civilization. I do however feel that Dark Energy will play a role in some manner due to the whole Quarian episode.

[WoodWizzard87]

Myrmedus wrote...

holidayc wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

If they wanted to get rid of the Relays, why not tow all them into the center of the galaxy?

Because something anchors them in place. The force of a supernova only shifted a relay. While I think the reapers are advanced, are they advanced enough to replicate the force of a supernova?

Again I point to the possibility that the force of the supernova may have only been a minor shockwave...it's unlikely the Mu Relay was positioned right next to a star.

However, you may also be right about the Mass Relays now that I think on it. I just realised when bringing up an image of one in my head that they're ALWAYS on, so they're permanently affected by a Mass Effect field and always have a 'bubble' of Dark Energy around them. It's possible that this protects them from harm, since energetic reactions would be dampened by the Dark Energy surrounding them and mass collisions would amount to very little as the mass of the Mass Relay would be so low (it'd be like paper being blown in the wind).

However, all the Reapers would need to do to destroy one is turn it off xD.

I'm still thinking it's over-population spread but it could be something with the Mass Relays too. I find it particularly intriguing that EeZo produces Dark Energy when an electric current is passed through it, and that EeZo is produced from matter being affected by supernova. I see some kind of pattern of thinking there from the writers, some kind of cycle but I can't really work it out.

I dont remember any codexs' saying that Eezo produces dark energy when producing a kinetic barrier.  All i remember is that reduces or increases mass and kinetics exponentially by whatever electrical current (+/-) was passed through it.  Plus, does anyone really know how the Mass relays energize the mass effect cores on the ships that use them, in this case the Normandy?  Are they jacking into huge negative electric field that allows the mass effect core and ftl drive to operate at over capacity or something?

[DaddyFoxDerek]

This theory definitely got me to thinking, and what I kept coming back to before I read thing was something Harbinger says right at the end: "What you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."



What does that mean, I was wondering? Is it self-serving crap? Does it mean they are rescuing, to quote Shepard, "the soul" of a species before a naturally occurring disaster? Do they preserve a species prior to what they feel is life obliterating inevitable war-something they've probably observed before? this thread makes me lean closer to some sort of disaster scenario.



And does the placement of the collector base tell us anything? Any reason it was at the center of the universe besides obfuscation? Does being surrounded by the catcher's mitt that is a bunch of black holes protect the collectors or other pet species from that disaster?



I don't know--- but I do like this thread.

[HeyUder]

Definitely don't want there to be a "creator" of the Reapers. I just want them explained in ME3 and I want a big twist, I do not want there to be an open ended ending to ME3. I want to see a truly amazing experience that is much more heavily geared to the player's past decisions from ME1 and ME2.

[AlloutAce]

WoodWizzard87 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I like your theory but I think it's wrong because the science is off.

You can't 'create' energy so if the BW writers are trying to make the science in ME anything close to "some-realistic" the Mass Relays won't be 'creating' Dark Energy but simply converting Mass into Dark Energy or vice versa.

In other words, even though I like your theory I don't think it's correct because the Mass Relays don't 'create' Dark Energy out of thin air and therefore won't be disturbing the relative balance of Universal substance. What they do is convert Mass into Dark Energy, for example the Mass of a spacecraft or a path between Relays, and then once the Mass Effect field is disengaged that Dark Energy converts back into Mass.

If this wasn't the case then going into a Mass Relay would give your ship a PERMANENT reduction in Mass, resulting in its potential velocity being permanently FTL. We know this is not the case and thus the original 'rest Mass' of the ship is gained after leaving the Mass Effect field. This additional Mass, once again, doesn't appear out of thin air but is gained from the originally converted Dark Energy.

In layman's terms the effect of a Mass Effect field is temporary and therefore any conversion is also temporary. I definitely think Dark Energy will play a big role in ME3 but I don't think it'll be one of Dark Energy overflowing the Galaxy/Universe. However, I do also agree with the idea that the Reapers are working on a 'grand' and almost protectorate or overseeing scale for the Universe.

I agree with you completely.  According to Newtons first law, you cant really overrun the galaxy with "dark energy".  Supposedly scientists say that anything that isnt matter is dark energy and encompases everything else.  So you have a galaxy full of matter and energy, while there is dark energy dispersed throughout the galaxy as well as dark energy around it holding it together and making the "Dark Space" between galaxies. 

Dark Energy will play a big part in ME3, but i think it will be used as a weapon.  So this dark energy is suck potentil and kinetic energy from the sun and causing it to die prematurely.  Maybe Sheppard finds a way to harness this dark energy and in the end,..... it sucks the energy out of teh repear mass effect cores, shutting off their FTL drives and kinetic barriers.  

As for the whole overseeing the universe and being protectorates, it just seems like a funky premise to me.  Why not just let everyone kill themselves through wars, eventually life will begin again through evolution, just like it always does. 

I like that idea, a possible foreshadowing when tali is studying the sun of haestrom finding it is dying too quickly. Did the reapers give this tech too the geth too test? only time will tell.

[NaelleD]

This whole thread has been an interesting read so far.

Personally, I think that the Reaper's creators are the Reapers. In the sense that they were once organics, and perhaps foresaw an event that would destroy them, and decided to make themselves into machines to preserve their species and gain eternal "life".

I also think that The Illusive Man wants humanity to "ascend" to Reapers.

As for the Mass Relays and dark energy, I don't really have enough knowledge to form an opinion, but I do like reading everyone's take on it.



The first time I played Mass Effect, it reminded me of a book I read a while ago about humans discovering space travel and how it affected the universe. Basically, space travel would tear apart the fabric of space, kind of like a cell bursting in your body. This would trigger an immune system response in the universe, in the form of a machine sent to destroy all life, to preserve itself. It happened many, many times, the universe never growing more than the embryo stage...

[Roffkaiser]

DaddyFoxDerek wrote...

This theory definitely got me to thinking, and what I kept coming back to before I read thing was something Harbinger says right at the end: "What you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

What does that mean, I was wondering? Is it self-serving crap? Does it mean they are rescuing, to quote Shepard, "the soul" of a species before a naturally occurring disaster? Do they preserve a species prior to what they feel is life obliterating inevitable war-something they've probably observed before? this thread makes me lean closer to some sort of disaster scenario.

And does the placement of the collector base tell us anything? Any reason it was at the center of the universe besides obfuscation? Does being surrounded by the catcher's mitt that is a bunch of black holes protect the collectors or other pet species from that disaster?

I don't know--- but I do like this thread.

I think Harbinger said because if all Humans would just accept destruction they could become part of a "greater cause" and become Reapers. I think the Collector base is in the Galactic Core just because it is a sector of space where other species won't go into, so they didn't really have to worry about discovery, until Cerberus decided to take them out that is.

[Myrmedus]

WoodWizzard87 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

holidayc wrote...

Vaenier wrote...

If they wanted to get rid of the Relays, why not tow all them into the center of the galaxy?

Because something anchors them in place. The force of a supernova only shifted a relay. While I think the reapers are advanced, are they advanced enough to replicate the force of a supernova?

Again I point to the possibility that the force of the supernova may have only been a minor shockwave...it's unlikely the Mu Relay was positioned right next to a star.

However, you may also be right about the Mass Relays now that I think on it. I just realised when bringing up an image of one in my head that they're ALWAYS on, so they're permanently affected by a Mass Effect field and always have a 'bubble' of Dark Energy around them. It's possible that this protects them from harm, since energetic reactions would be dampened by the Dark Energy surrounding them and mass collisions would amount to very little as the mass of the Mass Relay would be so low (it'd be like paper being blown in the wind).

However, all the Reapers would need to do to destroy one is turn it off xD.

I'm still thinking it's over-population spread but it could be something with the Mass Relays too. I find it particularly intriguing that EeZo produces Dark Energy when an electric current is passed through it, and that EeZo is produced from matter being affected by supernova. I see some kind of pattern of thinking there from the writers, some kind of cycle but I can't really work it out.

I dont remember any codexs' saying that Eezo produces dark energy when producing a kinetic barrier.  All i remember is that reduces or increases mass and kinetics exponentially by whatever electrical current (+/-) was passed through it.  Plus, does anyone really know how the Mass relays energize the mass effect cores on the ships that use them, in this case the Normandy?  Are they jacking into huge negative electric field that allows the mass effect core and ftl drive to operate at over capacity or something?

Firstly, I didn't say anything about kinetic barriers more that the codexs say passing an electric current through EeZo produces the Mass Effect field. Now, the mass gained or lost from that reaction either produces or consumes Dark Energy in exchange - check the codex, can't remember which section it is exactly, but it's described there.

Basically Mass Effect fields convert Dark Energy into Mass and vice versa.

As for how they effect the mass effect cores in ships I don't honestly know. Perhaps it is, as you say, a huge amount of stored negative charge. Having said that it seems that the newer ships actually have their OWN Mass Effect engines - check out the shuttle's movement at the beginning of ME2 when you're being asked questions by Miranda and Jacob to test your memory - it 'warps' almost like Star Trek indicating Mass Effect being used. Considering that, I'd suggest maybe the core may actually be a Mass Effect drive of its own but simply a smaller, weaker version compared to the Relays.

[Myrmedus]

Roffkaiser wrote...

DaddyFoxDerek wrote...

This theory definitely got me to thinking, and what I kept coming back to before I read thing was something Harbinger says right at the end: "What you know as Reapers are your salvation through destruction."

What does that mean, I was wondering? Is it self-serving crap? Does it mean they are rescuing, to quote Shepard, "the soul" of a species before a naturally occurring disaster? Do they preserve a species prior to what they feel is life obliterating inevitable war-something they've probably observed before? this thread makes me lean closer to some sort of disaster scenario.

And does the placement of the collector base tell us anything? Any reason it was at the center of the universe besides obfuscation? Does being surrounded by the catcher's mitt that is a bunch of black holes protect the collectors or other pet species from that disaster?

I don't know--- but I do like this thread.

I think Harbinger said because if all Humans would just accept destruction they could become part of a "greater cause" and become Reapers. I think the Collector base is in the Galactic Core just because it is a sector of space where other species won't go into, so they didn't really have to worry about discovery, until Cerberus decided to take them out that is.

Thing is he says other things aswell at other stages of the game. For example on Horizon the very first cinematic you see where the bugs descend down and you see Kaiden/Ashley swatting them off (how did they not get frozen by the way? ooOOOoo) when Harbinger comes onto the scene he says:

"We are the harbingers of their destiny; prepare these humans for ascension."

Those are very specific words. The tone of that really sounds like they're doing us a favour, or at least believe they are.

[Myrmedus]

AlloutAce wrote...

WoodWizzard87 wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

I like your theory but I think it's wrong because the science is off.

You can't 'create' energy so if the BW writers are trying to make the science in ME anything close to "some-realistic" the Mass Relays won't be 'creating' Dark Energy but simply converting Mass into Dark Energy or vice versa.

In other words, even though I like your theory I don't think it's correct because the Mass Relays don't 'create' Dark Energy out of thin air and therefore won't be disturbing the relative balance of Universal substance. What they do is convert Mass into Dark Energy, for example the Mass of a spacecraft or a path between Relays, and then once the Mass Effect field is disengaged that Dark Energy converts back into Mass.

If this wasn't the case then going into a Mass Relay would give your ship a PERMANENT reduction in Mass, resulting in its potential velocity being permanently FTL. We know this is not the case and thus the original 'rest Mass' of the ship is gained after leaving the Mass Effect field. This additional Mass, once again, doesn't appear out of thin air but is gained from the originally converted Dark Energy.

In layman's terms the effect of a Mass Effect field is temporary and therefore any conversion is also temporary. I definitely think Dark Energy will play a big role in ME3 but I don't think it'll be one of Dark Energy overflowing the Galaxy/Universe. However, I do also agree with the idea that the Reapers are working on a 'grand' and almost protectorate or overseeing scale for the Universe.

I agree with you completely.  According to Newtons first law, you cant really overrun the galaxy with "dark energy".  Supposedly scientists say that anything that isnt matter is dark energy and encompases everything else.  So you have a galaxy full of matter and energy, while there is dark energy dispersed throughout the galaxy as well as dark energy around it holding it together and making the "Dark Space" between galaxies. 

Dark Energy will play a big part in ME3, but i think it will be used as a weapon.  So this dark energy is suck potentil and kinetic energy from the sun and causing it to die prematurely.  Maybe Sheppard finds a way to harness this dark energy and in the end,..... it sucks the energy out of teh repear mass effect cores, shutting off their FTL drives and kinetic barriers.  

As for the whole overseeing the universe and being protectorates, it just seems like a funky premise to me.  Why not just let everyone kill themselves through wars, eventually life will begin again through evolution, just like it always does. 

I like that idea, a possible foreshadowing when tali is studying the sun of haestrom finding it is dying too quickly. Did the reapers give this tech too the geth too test? only time will tell.

Being able to use Dark Energy as a weapon is virtually limitless power, because it's virtually everywhere in the entire Universe. It IS the void between what we think of as matter....

Power....POWER!!!!

[DaddyFoxDerek]

Myrmedus wrote...

Thing is he says other things aswell at other stages of the game. For example on Horizon the very first cinematic you see where the bugs descend down and you see Kaiden/Ashley swatting them off (how did they not get frozen by the way? ooOOOoo) when Harbinger comes onto the scene he says:

"We are the harbingers of their destiny; prepare these humans for ascension."

Those are very specific words. The tone of that really sounds like they're doing us a favour, or at least believe they are.

Wow... I don't even remember hearing that line. Even more interesting now, for sure. Couple that with the "salvation through destruction" line at the end, and I think we agree,  it really does seem like they think they are doing us a favor. And it seems it's for more than just giving us "Reaperhood"

Modifié par DaddyFoxDerek, 08 février 2010 - 04:16 .

[Madodaz]

It's a good theory. But as you said



"My thought is that, this creator species built the relays to be indestructable, and then over time realized that rampant use of the mass effect technology had an <b>adverse<b/> effect on the Univers"



This theory's backbone is a assumption. Dark energy (If a remember right) is basicly the force that dictates the expansion of the universe and holds it together. Okay here is the but. It's not 100% proven that it exists although it's widely believed. In order for this idea to work the "Dark energy" needs to have the adverse effect.



The Reapers my not need to destroy the galactic civilisations, they could just move the mass relays into dark space.



"These relays work by essentially removing all mass between the two relays allowing a ship to move at a highly accelerated rate; they also heavily make use of dark energy"



It's widely known that nothing travels faster then the speed of light, ever. Because light has no mass. So travelling through the no mass I believe is the essentially the same thing. Here the theory can't work either.

[Cosmicinator]

holidayc wrote...
The Reapers and their Creators
My thought is that, this creator species built the relays to be indestructable, and then over time realized that rampant use of the mass effect technology had an adverse effect on the Universe. But they didnt have the technology to destroy the relays they created and also didn't want to destroy all life in the galaxy. They then created the reapers and turned off all of the relays in the galaxy (all relays are found 'off' when originally found). The reapers would have no use for constant use of the technology, and had little if any risk of dying off, thus they could serve to protect the universe better than their creators.The estimated safe time before a species would reach over-use of the mass effect technology would be assumed to be around 50,000 years, but to be safe a reaper vanguard would be placed in the galaxy to make sure no life advanced 'too fast'. The reapers would then allow a species to live for a certain time before genetically becoming the memorial to that species. As Harbinger says the reapers are salvation for life, a way to preserve the memory of each species, they would also act as a way for the reproduce and be more genetically apt to meet whatever new threats the galaxies could bring.

50,000 years was the time between current Civilization and the Prothean extinction. The time between each genocide varies.

Also, if this is true, why did the Reapers use the Collectors (AKA Protheans) as slaves in ME2?

[Madodaz]

Cosmicinator wrote...

holidayc wrote...

The Reapers and their Creators

My thought is that, this creator species built the relays to be indestructable, and then over time realized that rampant use of the mass effect technology had an adverse effect on the Universe. But they didnt have the technology to destroy the relays they created and also didn't want to destroy all life in the galaxy. They then created the reapers and turned off all of the relays in the galaxy (all relays are found 'off' when originally found). The reapers would have no use for constant use of the technology, and had little if any risk of dying off, thus they could serve to protect the universe better than their creators.The estimated safe time before a species would reach over-use of the mass effect technology would be assumed to be around 50,000 years, but to be safe a reaper vanguard would be placed in the galaxy to make sure no life advanced 'too fast'. The reapers would then allow a species to live for a certain time before genetically becoming the memorial to that species. As Harbinger says the reapers are salvation for life, a way to preserve the memory of each species, they would also act as a way for the reproduce and be more genetically apt to meet whatever new threats the galaxies could bring.

50,000 years was the time between current Civilization and the Prothean extinction. The time between each genocide varies.



Also, if this is true, why did the Reapers use the Collectors (AKA Protheans) as slaves in ME2?

If you look on illios in ME1 you will see Protheon statues. Then ME2 go to "Joab" a alien planet and watch the beaken transmission. You will the collectors and the other "Protheans". The Collectors are a DNA mix. A few DNA strands are that of protheans but not all. The collectors are simply servent race to the reapers. They're symbiotic, they need each other to survive.

[brgillespie]

Harbinger's fat finger tentacles are too big to build a human Reaper by itself.

[Ehlisuun]

I really can't buy into this. The happy ending players will have worked towards and spend over $200 bucks on (three games after all) is simply: congratulations! you destroyed the reaper menace and now will be wiped out by your own use of the mass relays, have a nice day! I really can't see that being how it plays out. That would be the most craptastic ending of all time.

[dukem73]

the tie to the mass relays is simply, that they leave that technology lying around after the cycles for emerging societies to find in order for them to spread quicker.

2nd nice to have effect is, that they are giving us fish, while not teaching us how to catch them.

we use mass relay technology while not understanding it (protheans were close prior to their extinction)



seeing how more than the population of one planet is needed to create one reaper (even that one was not finished yet) its only logical, that you'd want to have a universe populated for each destruction.



we've got 2 positive effects by leaving the mass relays behind.



1. the universe gets populated faster

2. the population does not have enough understanding of how the universe works when they've spread to be a threat to the reapers plans



on the other hand if you do not leave that tech behind, civilizations would take longer to spread (because they would have to invent that kind of transportation themselves) and they would be smarter/further developed = bad for reaper plans to harvest all life from cycle to cycle.

[Cosmicinator]

Madodaz wrote...

If you look on Illos in ME1 you will see Protheon statues. Then ME2 go to "Joab" a alien planet and watch the beaken transmission. You will the collectors and the other "Protheans". The Collectors are a DNA mix. A few DNA strands are that of protheans but not all. The collectors are simply servent race to the reapers. They're symbiotic, they need each other to survive.

I wasn't questioning whether or not the Collectors were the Reapers slaves, I can see they are.

I'm just not getting why they are needed at all, the Reapers can do all the Collectors can by themselves! Also, I don't believe the OP's theory, I just think the Reapers are mad, kudos for the effort, however.

[Cosmicinator]

dukem73 wrote...

-Snip-

I'm pretty tired of people thinking that the Reapers do the cycle for the purpose of reproduction, they just happened this time around to see a Human-Reaper as a good investment.

The cycle has a darker logical underpinning than many may think...

[Archereon]

"The Reapers didn't create themselves."



If the theory that they were once an organic race that reached a technological singularity is true, than they very well could have "created themselves" unless your getting into in game theological debates.

[Flamesz]

I remember that on Illium, i think it was the woman from Noveria from the first game said that there has suddenly been a more peaked interest in Dark Energy. Plus the star in Tali's recruitment misson which could have been affected by Dark Energy.

[xMister Vx]

You can't build something and then not have the technology to destroy it. It doesn't make sense. Anything can be destroyed.

This theory is plausible, but I sure hope it's not it. Because that would suck, hard. Any stories where technology ends up harming the galaxy fail. Science fiction is about the triumph of technology.

Modifié par xMister Vx, 08 février 2010 - 05:14 .

[Archereon]

HeyUder wrote...

Definitely don't want there to be a "creator" of the Reapers. I just want them explained in ME3 and I want a big twist, I do not want there to be an open ended ending to ME3. I want to see a truly amazing experience that is much more heavily geared to the player's past decisions from ME1 and ME2.

Would you mind if it was explained that the Reapers were once an organic species that reached technological singularity?