92 réponses à ce sujet

[Madodaz]

Cosmicinator wrote...

Madodaz wrote...



If you look on Illos in ME1 you will see Protheon statues. Then ME2 go to "Joab" a alien planet and watch the beaken transmission. You will the collectors and the other "Protheans". The Collectors are a DNA mix. A few DNA strands are that of protheans but not all. The collectors are simply servent race to the reapers. They're symbiotic, they need each other to survive.

I wasn't questioning whether or not the Collectors were the Reapers slaves, I can see they are.



I'm just not getting why they are needed at all, the Reapers can do all the Collectors can by themselves! Also, I don't believe the OP's theory, I just think the Reapers are mad, kudos for the effort, however.

Well no one can tell you for sure. Maybe the reapers where programmed not to be able to reproduce as a defence mechanism form their creators. Besides Huge ass ships can't just go around the galaxy with out stirring attention.

[schnydz]

An intriguing theory... I just don't see what the point of a "human" reaper would be than?



I tend to believe it's all much simpler than that. Reapers = master race. After every extinction cycle the reapers steal organic DNA and technological advancements to evolve the reaper race and create a master race.

[davidt0504]

holidayc wrote...

Dark Energy

Dark Energy is a concept that anyone playing either of these two games should be fairly familiar with. It is the basis behind the Mass Effect technology and something that scientific corporations are experimenting with heavily in ME2.

Casey Hudson has stated this game to be based upon some-realistic science.

http://www.scientifi...rgy-mass-effect

Dark Energy is the force that is predicted to cause expansion of the universe.

The Reapers and their Creators

The Reapers most probably did not create themselves or just magically come into existence, they were most likely built by something else. Sovereign states in ME1 that 'we' created the Mass Relays. What seems probable is that since 'we' isnt clearly defined, that they are talking about their creators, or they were designed to act as their creators.

It seems to me that the creators of the reapers are also the creators of the Mass Relays. I would guess that this species created the relays and the citadel 'master relay' using material that they found to be indestructable. It is mentioned in ME1 that not even a supernova could destroy the relays. It is also shown in ME2 that the reapers need another species to construct things, it doesnt seem that they have any purpose outside of destruction.  These relays work by essentially removing all mass between the two relays allowing a ship to move at a highly accelerated rate; they also heavily make use of dark energy. 

My thought is that, this creator species built the relays to be indestructable, and then over time realized that rampant use of the mass effect technology had an adverse effect on the Universe. But they didnt have the technology to destroy the relays they created and also didn't want to destroy all life in the galaxy. They then created the reapers and turned off all of the relays in the galaxy (all relays are found 'off' when originally found). The reapers would have no use for constant use of the technology, and had little if any risk of dying off, thus they could serve to protect the universe better than their creators.The estimated safe time before a species would reach over-use of the mass effect technology would be assumed to be around 50,000 years, but to be safe a reaper vanguard would be placed in the galaxy to make sure no life advanced 'too fast'. The reapers would then allow a species to live for a certain time before genetically becoming the memorial to that species. As Harbinger says the reapers are salvation for life, a way to perserve the memory of each species, they would also act as a way for the reproduce and be more genetically apt to meet whatever new threats the galaxies could bring.

The reapers function HAS to be centered on the Mass Effect technology (as the series title would imply) because the reapers don't give a damn about civilization or life that hasn't discovered the relays.

In this way, the reapers were created as a form of universal immune system to guard against a preceived or imagined greater threat to the universe's expansion. Whatever that may be is easily beyond the knowledge of any galaxy, thus sovereign says his motives are beyond the comprehension of Shepard.

Mark Meer (who voices male shepard) has said this final entry in the series will be very dark. Who knows? This seems the most plausible explanation at this point however.

kudos dude.  This is a great theory but I'm upset that either you just ruined me3 or just came up with a theory that is better than what will actually be the story lol.  But it does fit with what Sovereign said in me1, that we couldn't comprehend it and life exists because they allow it, and it ends because they demand it.  If they have some sort of personal grudge against life wouldn't they just extinguish all life?  But by integrating life into a reaper shell then perhaps that civilization could continue.  I think it was speculated by one of the characters in me2 (EDI?) that it was possible that the memories were left intact from the people who were added into the reaper.  But they would also probably want to wait until a species reached FTL capabilities not only because it gave them access to the mass relays, but also because only a species that had evolved to that capacity would be able to handle a transition to such a state. 
Another thing, think about this, if organics were added into a reaper and allowed to still retain memories, then mass relays would not be needed anyways, because every single being would be constantly in direct communication with each other through by existing in the AI construct.  As Nazara said, "we are each a nation, independant and free of all weakness." This was probably not refering to martial might, or even will power, but in the fact that a species was now in perfect harmony with each other.

[davidt0504]

Roffkaiser wrote...

I don't think they came up with a way to travel in darkspace very well, or else it wouldn't take the Reapers much time to get back to the MW Galaxy. Not to mention if they really wanted to they could make relays in every galaxy, with each being a citadel that connected with every other galaxies citadel, and then it wouldn't even matter if the galaxies kept getting further away from each other. To that end I highly doubt this whole theory of dark energy being the bane of the galaxy being true.

I think Mass Effect is a good title for the series because it is the technology with which you are regarded as advanced or not, and the technology with which the Reapers destroy all galactic civilization. I do however feel that Dark Energy will play a role in some manner due to the whole Quarian episode.

what your not factoring is that the expansion of the universe is not just merely getting galaxies farther and farther apart, but the universe's expansion will ultimately be the death of the universe.  Now while natural expansion cannot be stopped as we know it, but whoever created the mass relays if they discovered that by using them was accelerating the expansion they would want to stop them from being used.

[albertalad]

Actually in "real" science there is "Dark Matter" which is necessary and hold galaxies together otherwise the natural galaxy speed at which all galaxies spin on their axis would fly apart otherwise. The speed at which galaxies spin were always a mystery to science until the discovery of "dark matter" which caused problems in real science - galaxies should fly apart and no one until dark matter understood why they didn't - also dark matter which surrounds galaxies is used as a lensing mechanism to view galaxies billions of light years further into space.



Tali's science of dark matter causing her star to age and die quickly is wrong - dark matter is a natural force of nature and is NOT used internally inside stars - nuclear fusion is the driving force of all stars - you use up nuclear fuel too quickly stars turn red, expand, and eventually blow off their material and if star is large enough explode into white dwarf and even larger stars turn into black holes.



Dark energy is normal in nature - every particle has a counter particle (dark energy) and when any particle of our normal universe comes into contact with a dark energy particle each explode out of existence. Black holes have the power to strip normal particles from their dark energy particle which happened at the beginning of the universe - our normal universe we see came into being because our normal particle universe slightly (and I mean very slightly) gained the upper hand over "dark energy" and we end up with beings like us.



In the reaper universe we were told reaper do grow old a die - and in ME 2 we see how reapers are created - as in ME one we were informed reapers do grow old and die and are rebuilt from whatever species used for reaper to harvest themselves with the aid of reaper workers as we see in ME2.



So - that is WHY reapers are growing desperate - they are aging and without species refertilization all will die as many of their internals are very much organic. And we all know organics do die of all species - even reaper organics.



Mass effect only uses what natural already does - worm holes enabling movement from location to location which is harnessed for travel in this series. ME3 has to follow the reasoning from ME1, ME2, and into ME3 - the reapers need species to continue to live as they have for countless times in past ME history harvesting countless cycles to do so - that will continue.



The question how many reapers? How will they be stopped? Dark energy is one possible weapon as I stated earlier dark energy contacting normal energy each obliterates the other out of existence. Curious - Sheppard did download reaper technology in his data pad given to him by Joker in the final frames - and Sheppard smiles - he's got the knowledge he needs to meet the reaper threat hear on is what I suspect!

[Ehlisuun]

Actually that is exactly backwards. Everyone knows that mass naturally attracts mass. The more mass there is, the greater the attraction. This force holds galaxies and solar systems together. Dark matter is responsible for the acceleration of galaxies away from one another. It is believed that the vast majority of galaxies (if not all) have many black holes at their center and that is what maintains the integrity of the galaxy. if anything it is most likely that galaxies will spiral inward toward the center and eventually fuse with the black holes there. Thus the spiral shape, galaxies capture materials and pull them towards the center. The Milky Way is consuming the Sagittarius dwarf galaxy right now. Earth apparently isn't native to the Milky Way and is now believed to have been formed in the Sagittarius galaxy.



Why does everyone assume the reapers have only one application for technology that makes use of dark matter or energy? Couldn't it be that they have a whole plethora of tricks up their sleeve? There is no point to the series of games WHATSOEVER if the galaxy is doomed in the near future regardless of what the characters do. Rubbing the inevitable doom of the universe in the face of the player is beyond stupid. If an idea isn't good business, it isn't a good idea.

[lothix]

Certainly one of the more plausible theories posted here. Neatly ties in the name of the series, dark energy foreshadowing, and reason for reapers to hibernate outside of the galaxy while leaving only one vanguard ship behind. The hurdle to overcome here is how to tie in the racial expansion and possible reproduction cycle. One could argue that the current state of affairs is a compromise between limiting mass effect usage and replenishing the reaper fleet. Then the issue becomes Sovereign's statement that reapers are eternal. The argument here would have to be that while reapers live on forever, they can be destroyed during extinction cycle. There have been two cases of reaper deaths in ME1+2, so this is definitely plausible.

Also codex entries often reflect what the team perceives at the time of the entry addition rather than absolute truth, so they should not be used as gospel on ME universe. Real scientific reasoning should be left at the door when attempting to ascertain cause and effect in ME universe as this is a sci-fi game, and most of technology depicted is not plausible under our proven laws and even theories of physics.

True or not this theory would present potential for some very interesting plot twists and decisions to be made in ME3. I think ME3 will be centred around preventing reapers from reaching the galaxy rather than fighting them head on. Perhaps Shepard will be presented with a choice of either letting reapers in, keeping them out and preserving the current state of affairs while letting the galaxy be destroyed gradually, or finding a way to shut down the mass relays plunging the galaxy into a dark age but de-activating the reapers or negotiating peace with them in the process. Inspired by Deux Ex 1 alternate endings perhaps.

Modifié par lothix, 08 février 2010 - 08:40 .

[Bob5312]

Albertalad, you imply that dark matter has been discovered when its existence remains an open question. There is still no consensus on what dark matter is if it does exist (trying to fit it into the symmetries of the standard model of elementary particle physics in a way that prevents us detecting it is very difficult), so postulating the properties it might have is perfectly reasonable for science fiction. Also, you seem to be confusing antimatter with dark energy; the two are completely unrelated. Antimatter particles annihilate one another into radiative energy, but this is not the dark energy. Dark energy is invoked to drive the apparently accelerating expansion of the universe (which would otherwise be slowing down due to gravity), and can be thought of as a negative pressure or a vacuum energy density of spacetime. Again, the nature of dark energy is not understood so the writers have considerable leeway with how they describe it. (Incidentally, the universe in standard cosmological models is 95% 'dark', with visible matter that we understand making up about 5% and dark matter and dark energy making up the rest).

Ehlisuun, there is a distinction between dark matter, dark energy, and black holes, and the roles these three things play in cosmology: dark matter explains the anomalous rotation speed of galaxies, dark energy explains the accelerating expansion of the universe, and black holes are 'closed' areas of spacetime with a singularity at their centre that do not have a significant impact on large-scale cosmology (whether galaxies need a black hole to form or remain stable is an open question).

Lothix, as far as I can tell there is almost nothing in the Mass Effect universe that is explicitly forbidden by the current laws of physics: it is possible that we will discover new forms of matter with the properties described here. The only exception I've encountered so far is the quantum entanglement communicator: this exact form of communication is provably impossible as entanglement carries no information.

[IamDanThaMan]

this seems possible, except for the dark matter thing, more likely that the mass relays are building up a massive static charge in them and will eventually discharge themselves, electrocuting everything in the galaxy at once, similar to what happens with the shipboard ftl drives when not discharged at a planet of significant size. The reapers come in and save the species they deem worthy, then go back into dark space, leaving only a few behind that will set off the static discharge, then escape into the omega 4 relay to be protected by the mass of the black hole in the center of the galaxy

[Jzadek72]

screwoffreg wrote...

I always thought that may be it. The only thing that remains is destroying the Mass Relays or not using the technology of the Citadel then? The end of galactic civilization and a permanent backslide? Yuck, not another Battlestar Galactica ending...

Please god no. They've already ruined the end of one brilliant sci-fi, if the do it again...

[Roffkaiser]

davidt0504 wrote...
what your not factoring is that the expansion of the universe is not just merely getting galaxies farther and farther apart, but the universe's expansion will ultimately be the death of the universe.  Now while natural expansion cannot be stopped as we know it, but whoever created the mass relays if they discovered that by using them was accelerating the expansion they would want to stop them from being used.

I did factor in that the expansion of the universe will result in the "death of the universe" however it won't really matter because regardless of what we do we can't affect that. The universe will come to an "end" as far as life is concerned some day unless a way of creating matter is found which is pretty far out there as far as I am concerned. The concept of mass relays causing the universe to expand quicker and by virtue ending the capacity for life is as ludicrous as leaving your tap on causing sea levels to rise and flooding the Earth.

Modifié par Roffkaiser, 09 février 2010 - 12:50 .

[lothix]

Bob5312 wrote...
Lothix, as far as I can tell there is almost nothing in the Mass Effect universe that is explicitly forbidden by the current laws of physics: it is possible that we will discover new forms of matter with the properties described here. The only exception I've encountered so far is the quantum entanglement communicator: this exact form of communication is provably impossible as entanglement carries no information.

Just about all FTL shenanigans ME universe heavily relies on are not possible under our physics. Not to mention seemingly infinite energy sources from element zero.

Modifié par lothix, 09 février 2010 - 12:59 .

[Bob5312]

lothix wrote...

Bob5312 wrote...
Lothix, as far as I can tell there is almost nothing in the Mass Effect universe that is explicitly forbidden by the current laws of physics: it is possible that we will discover new forms of matter with the properties described here. The only exception I've encountered so far is the quantum entanglement communicator: this exact form of communication is provably impossible as entanglement carries no information.

Just about all FTL shenanigans ME universe heavily relies on are not possible under our physics. Not to mention seemingly infinite energy sources from element zero.

True, but our physics is incomplete, since we don't understand dark matter or dark energy.  I'm not saying they're right, but consider: dark matter and dark energy aren't possible under the current laws of physics, and yet we observe them in real life (or rather, infer them from observations we can't explain otherwise without re-writing the laws of physics). 

Strictly speaking, I suppose, dark energy is possible as a cosmological constant in relativity.  This isn't much of an explanation, however, since it doesn't explain the source of the vacuum energy, it merely incorporates its effects into the field equations in a mathematically consistent way.

[DeadlyParasite]

An interteresting analysis. Whether it's true remains to be seen but I'll tip my hat off to you if even some of your ideas turn out to be correct.

[Shepard needs a Vacation]

very good theory i like

[Destructo-Bot]

Going with your idea, the theoretical aliens that created the Mass Relays would be pretty big jerks and kind of retarded to boot

Instead of permanently disabling the relays, or creating a warning that couldn't be disabled, or pointing the relays somewhere useless, disconnecting the relay network, or any number of other things they create genocidal apocolypse Reapers to destroy all advanced life in the galaxy to prevent their use instead. Then they went and either died out themselves for some inexplicable reason or had their own creations reap them.

[Cf UnrealKiller]

Excellent theory, but there's one fatal flaw. Bioware already confirmed ME3 isn't the the last we'll see of Mass Effect. That means that unless all Mass Effect games after ME3 are prequels then they couldn't just end use of the Relays, considering those are how all the species are connected. 

Great theory, but not plausible outside of the game universe.

[davidt0504]

albertalad wrote...

Actually in "real" science there is "Dark Matter" which is necessary and hold galaxies together otherwise the natural galaxy speed at which all galaxies spin on their axis would fly apart otherwise. The speed at which galaxies spin were always a mystery to science until the discovery of "dark matter" which caused problems in real science - galaxies should fly apart and no one until dark matter understood why they didn't - also dark matter which surrounds galaxies is used as a lensing mechanism to view galaxies billions of light years further into space.

Tali's science of dark matter causing her star to age and die quickly is wrong - dark matter is a natural force of nature and is NOT used internally inside stars - nuclear fusion is the driving force of all stars - you use up nuclear fuel too quickly stars turn red, expand, and eventually blow off their material and if star is large enough explode into white dwarf and even larger stars turn into black holes.

Tali wasn't looking into dark matter but dark energy, dark matter and dark energy have nothing to do with each other, both completely different things.  Its not like how normal matter and energy are interchangable.