80 réponses à ce sujet

[implodinggoat]

That's a good point. I do miss the interaction between my squademates that I got from ME1. It makes them feel less alive.

[Merci357]

I think most Mass Effect 2 characters had quite a lot of depth, interesting backstories. However, they all had more limited chat options compared to part one, and the party interaction (party banter) was nonexistant.

[darth randas]

I think inter party relations are there, your just not looking hard enough.


The thing is, Mass Effect allows two party members, Dragon Age allows three. Further more, Mass Effect has a larger emphasis, on combat. Like with Dragon Age, party dialouge only occurs on "hubs". Which are few and far between in Mass Effect 2, compared to Dragon Age. Finally, like with Dragon Age, party dialouge depends on your party members. Some party members are quiet, some are talkative. Some party combinations, will net dialouge, some will not.

I encountered, several cases of party dialouge. One example, was when I was on the Citadel, to buy some weapons, I previously could not afford. I brought Tali, and Garrus, with me. Garrus, makes a joke reference to elevator rides, while we are walking up a flight of stairs. He says (paraphrasing) , "Remember all those long elevator rides. They were annoying, but they gave us an excuse to talk to one another. How have you been?"
Tali responds, " (paraphrasing) I don't feel like talking right now". Garrus, " How is the Migrant Fleet". Then Tali makes a lighthearted threat. Basically telling him to shut up.

At the end of the day, there is party dialouge, and unique dialouge where it makes sense. I will agree, that there should have been unique dialouge if you had Garrus and Tali, during reunion moments. But beyond that, there is  unique dialouge. You just need to have good combinations, and the right people, at the right place.

In retrospect, I probably missed a lot of opportunities. Because when I went on missions, I didn't think about which of my squad mates, would react uniquely to the world. Having just started my second play through,  Bringing Zaeed to Omega, for example nets some unique dialouge.

Finally, a lot of the dialouge on hub worlds, requires you to activate it. There are certian locations on hub worlds, that when you interact with them, a party member will have a response. Some times, your other party members will have something to add.

Modifié par darth randas, 08 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[Traumacrazy]

DA:O = party banter



ME2 =

[MPaBkaTa123]

DAO had great characters that is true, the banter cracked me up more than once. ME1 had fun party banter but the characters themselves (besides Garrus and Wrex) were pretty bland or just boring. ME2 had a lot better characters than ME1 , worse than DAO, but still good. I hope that in ME3 we can combine the fun banter from ME1 with the good characters of ME2.

[SithLordExarKun]

ME2 had superior characters Imo while DAO had superior interactions and party banter.

[Kalfear]

St Fredriksen wrote...

What is it?

Character depth, group interaction and social complexity.

In Mass Effect I ran into the most interesting character I've witnessed in Wrex. It was a joy having him along.
In Mass Effect I had to do difficult choices, even when I tried to stay loyal to one side (Paragon/Renegade).
In Mass Effect I enjoyed seeing my characters interact with each other, with chit chat in the elevators.

The last part is important, because in Dragon Age it was ALL about my group, my characters, connecting with each other - and not only with my "main"/Shephard. And I'm not talking about key events that we get in certain points in the game, I'm talking about the feeling of being in a group - all the time. Dragon Age did this magnificently by letting the "Mass Effect 1-elevator chit chat" play a large role when wandering around in the world. They also were more unpredictable, and had more to talk about. In MF2 its a standard procedure - find the character, and do his sidequest. Yes, they were good, the quest and the conversations, but the way you unlocked conversations were predictable and repetitive.

In Dragon Age my characters lived with each other, in Mass Effect 2 this is completly thrown away. Only certain cutscenes at critical moments in the game tries to build up friendship or anger between certain members. Before that i might have played several hours with different characters, even meeting up with old non-playable friends with Garrus and Tali on my team, only to realize that the enviroment only see Shephard. I might as well play without the two members in the group, it never mattered the way it could have. That Liara totally ignored Tali and Garrus showed me that it's not flawless to try connecting the dots between the games - but it still doesn't explain why Bioware didnt pay more attention to the character interaction with each other. Some key moments, sure,. but it was certainly not a priority. It shows, and it disappoints. I think one of the character mentioned Garrus, when i had him on my team - i noticed it, and liked it - alot. Didnt happend again though...

Compared to Mass Effect, the sequel didn't test the boundaries when you tried to stay loyal to a side. IF you played as a good guy, it wasnt hard chosing the right answer... a difficult choice never occured to me in MF2. There was some points in MF1 that was hard, no matter the side you were loyal to.

And... let's be honest. The playable characters were great, but... and this is a big but(t).... NO ONE wasn't even near being as interesting as Wrex in the first game. I prayed that MF2 would give me the opertunity to have him by my side, but I realize that it would be a complex job.. but probably not an impossible one.


So, Bioware, please... next time, pick up some tips from your colleagues in the Dragon Age-crew, and make Mass Effect 3 perfect by adding more character and group interaction, more in-game dialogue, unpredictable and unlockable dialoges at certain areas etc. Pretty, pretty please with sugar on the top!


Regards,
Chiefo.

PS: You have to excuse my grammar. English is my second language

QFT

They simply didnt tell us enough about characters and we didnt get to reallly see them interacting with other characters to build their personalities.

I can see how shooter fans that thought Diablo or Halo were RPGs think this game has amazing characters but for people that play RPGs and read books with actual pages and things like that, these characters in ME2 were grossly under developed.

Thane was probably the best written character of the whole bunch. Grunt and Zaeel definately were the worst. Everyone else come in at ok to below acceptable standards at best in a so called RPG

[MPaBkaTa123]

To the person above this post.

ME1 Characters were not that good and although some ME2 characters bored me (Miranda and Jacob yey) the others were much better than any ME1 character besides Wrex who is awesome.



As to the comment about Grunt and Zaeed : Zaeed sucks yes, but if you talk to grunt often you can see that he is one of the best of the bunch .

[Soruyao]

Kalfear wrote...

I can see how shooter fans that thought Diablo or Halo were RPGs think this game has amazing characters but for people that play RPGs and read books with actual pages and things like that, these characters in ME2 were grossly under developed.

Man, you just can't make a post without adding something that translates to "by the way, if anyone disagrees with me they're ignorant children."  can you?  Talk about ego.

[St Fredriksen]

darth randas wrote...

I think inter party relations are there, your just not looking hard enough.


The thing is, Mass Effect allows two party members, Dragon Age allows three. Further more, Mass Effect has a larger emphasis, on combat. Like with Dragon Age, party dialouge only occurs on "hubs". Which are few and far between in Mass Effect 2, compared to Dragon Age. Finally, like with Dragon Age, party dialouge depends on your party members. Some party members are quiet, some are talkative. Some party combinations, will net dialouge, some will not.

I encountered, several cases of party dialouge. One example, was when I was on the Citadel, to buy some weapons, I previously could not afford. I brought Tali, and Garrus, with me. Garrus, makes a joke reference to elevator rides, while we are walking up a flight of stairs. He says (paraphrasing) , "Remember all those long elevator rides. They were annoying, but they gave us an excuse to talk to one another. How have you been?"
Tali responds, " (paraphrasing) I don't feel like talking right now". Garrus, " How is the Migrant Fleet". Then Tali makes a lighthearted threat. Basically telling him to shut up.

At the end of the day, there is party dialouge, and unique dialouge where it makes sense. I will agree, that there should have been unique dialouge if you had Garrus and Tali, during reunion moments. But beyond that, there is  unique dialouge. You just need to have good combinations, and the right people, at the right place.

In retrospect, I probably missed a lot of opportunities. Because when I went on missions, I didn't think about which of my squad mates, would react uniquely to the world. Having just started my second play through,  Bringing Zaeed to Omega, for example nets some unique dialouge.

Finally, a lot of the dialouge on hub worlds, requires you to activate it. There are certian locations on hub worlds, that when you interact with them, a party member will have a response. Some times, your other party members will have something to add.

Thanks for the reply. Im sure there is some party relations, lying at certain places, but I was thorough when I recently finished the game - exploring every planet, getting most of the upgrades, doing all quests and talking to everyone - and I just found a few, too little.

"Hubs - Which are few and far between in Mass Effect 2" - yes, i know. I guess im trying to say that hubs worked, and i really missed those in ME2

[Darth Obvious]

aquatine wrote...

I LOVE the character concepts for everyone in ME 2, in the original it seemed as though all the party members did nothing but represent their class/race combination and that was nice, gave it that whole, this alignment is designed to think this way thing, from Core D&D books, essentially providing important RP springboards.

I agree.

In both ME1 and DA:O your squadmates are for the most part quite predictable - which is fine for a video game - since those games introduce their respective worlds to the player.

On the other hand, I find the ME2 squadmate character concepts to be much more unique. Bioware did a fantastic job in this regard, as I had no idea what a lot of their stories would be, and was surprised by almost all of them.

Sure, there could be a bit more banter like in DA:O, but that isn't interaction in the real sense anyway, and very rarely did any of the banter conversations in DA or ME1 ever tell me anything I didn't already know. They serve as entertaining little reminders of a given character's personality, and not much more.

[glen55]

More banter would be nice, but the comparison to DA is kind of unfair. DA was 5 years in development compared to a much shorter period for ME2, and truly, developing a robust amount of banter is a difficult chore. You have to take all the possible party compositions into account and make lines not just for x to say, but for x to say to y, for x to say to z, and then you have to have them say the things in the right situation, etc. It gets real complicated real fast, and like I said, you shouldn't expect a game with 1/3 the development time to have as much banter.



As far as the characters themselves go, though, I like the ME2 characters just fine. If anybody is boring it's Miranda, but you can always just walk around behind her and look at her butt if you get bored with Miranda.

[Valmy]

St Fredriksen wrote...

What is it?

Character depth, group interaction and social complexity.

Pity you feel that way.  The primary focus for ME2 is definitely the characters and I really enjoyed them...even more than I did in Dragon Age if that was possible.  I feel like the game really played up this strength of Bioware.

[Hizoka003]

Handsome Hank wrote...

KOTOR = Amazing story
ME1 = Amazing storytelling
DAO = Amazing party banter
ME2 = Amazing storytelling

Other than Neverwinter Nights, I have to say that I think DAO was the worst bioware game ever made. Now, worst for bioware is still better than many developers so don't think I didn't play through both of them (I just only played through them once).

you realize you just lost every bit of credability you might of had...

[Hizoka003]

the biggest thing ME1 and DAO have that ME2 lacks is immersion.. in ME1 and DAO you feel like you are there, ME2 is just another game





Seriously how can you not laugh a little when a drunk dwarf asks a girl if she wears panties? Especially when you in a cave about to fight a legion of enemys. ME2 completely lacked that, IMO taking out elevators (and other load screen hiders) really kills the immersion with the elevators you never really broke the feeling of ebing in the game load screens do exactly that

[Hizoka003]

AwesomeName wrote...

The thing is, not everyone went into this game looking for the same thing. Personally I was just after a fun game and a really good story for my character, and that was there. I didn't want an mmorpg type world where I just explore and talk to people indefinitely.

you wanted a shooter, not a Bioware RPG

[Hizoka003]

AwesomeName wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

The thing is, not everyone went into this game looking for the same thing. Personally I was just after a fun game and a really good story for my character, and that was there. I didn't want an mmorpg type world where I just explore and talk to people indefinitely.

you wanted a shooter, not a Bioware RPG

Er no, and I didn't want a template of anything.  Why must games rigidly adhere to a single genre?  Art and entertainment would be painfully dull if everyone creative never thought outside the box and restricted themselves to only one genre. 

you said you juwst wanted a game with a story without talking to people, thats a shooter not and RPG, in RPGs you talk to people

[Jaymo147]

For me

DA:O>ME1>ME2

RPG wise.

[Chasedanger]

That's my only gripe aside from the helmets really and maybe a couple more guns. Party banter. Really helps flesh out the characters more. I loved the elevator rides for that reason only. Stuff like Wrex trying to instigate with other party members was awesome. DAO had so much of it and it was a high point of the game. I'd feel more like the characters of ME2 come alive if they did so. ME1 i could kind of get the gist more of how they felt about teaming with each other. It would have been nice to have Garrus be recognized by Tali, Liara, etc and Tali by Liara, or Wrex etc. It was like why do they only react to Shep when they had all this interaction in the 1st game. It made things feel artificial.

[Schneidend]

There was party banter. Sometimes it would be triggered randomly, like Tali and Garrus on the Citadel, and other times it would be triggered by the player, like Grunt and Legion on Tuchanka. It felt a lot more organic to me than characters refusing to talk to each other anywhere but the elevators.

[Commander Darmok]

Not that I wouldn't love to see what the OP is describing, but I really have to get this out there once again - Wrex = Good riddance. I thought every single character in ME1 (Dr. Chakwas and /shudder - Kaidan included) were more interesting than Wrex. I just don't get the love for him. As far as depth of single characaters goes (not going to argue that they don't interact AS well with each other,) I think ME2 was much better than ME1.



SPOILERS



The Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy was amazing. Sure it only happened once, but when Jack and Miranda went at it, I thought - crap, I hope they don't kill each other. I LOVE Mordin - I talk to him all the time. Even Jacob's man hug when he doesn't have anything to say is awesome.

[Walker White]

I really like ME2, but I have commented many times on the lack on noncombat banter. This is a serious, serious negative to the game. A lot of the character interaction in ME1 was actually outside of the Normandy. Almost every conversation that you had in ME1 went as follows:



(1) Shepard asks person a question

(2) Person asked question responds

(3) Some teammate reacts to this response, interjecting their own personality

(4) Dialog wheel returns for another question



Play it again and watch. There is no Shepard reaction in ME1 that you do not control. Reactions outside of your control belong to teammates.



In ME2, (3) has been replaced with Shepard responses instead of teammate responses. So your teammates are almost invisible as you move about the world. This, more than anything, has seriously damaged the depth of character in ME2.