80 réponses à ce sujet

[Zatwu]

I think the reason for getting a lot of the "I have nothing to say come back later" is that since there wasn't really much of a set order as to when you recruited people, and since most of the game is recruiting, if they had more talks a lot of people would completely miss a lot of them, not because they didn't bother to speak with the characters, but because for many people there wouldn't be enough missions between recruiting the latter chracters and the end of the game. For example, most of the time I missed Thane's last two talks because the game ended before he could say them. (N7 missions still advance it, but the dialogue dosn't really fit with the plot being over.)

Likewise the same can be said for meetings in the conference room since only two chracters are guaranteed to be with you when X is recruited.

Hopefully ME3 will give you most/all of your characters at the start, thus allowing more talking.and party interaction. Having banter "hotspots" in missions the way ME1 and DAO did would also help, even if it meant bringing back the elevators...I miss the elevators...

Modifié par Zatwu, 08 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[spock06]

ME1 had a little

DA:O had a lot

ME2 has none



What is it?



Um, bad combat and boring gameplay? Crap graphics?

[Traumacrazy]

spock06 wrote...

ME1 had a little
DA:O had a lot
ME2 has none

What is it?

Um, bad combat and boring gameplay? Crap graphics?

party banter

[Willie_on_Wheels]

Party banter is stupid, and has no relevance to character development. Examples:



Alistair : I say something in good-humour!

Morrigan : I make a snide comment to inform you that your good-humour sickens me!



Oghren: I am a dwarf! I like to drink ale and axe people!

Sten: I am a foreigner. You are wrong for not being like me!

[St Fredriksen]

AwesomeName wrote...

The thing is, not everyone went into this game looking for the same thing. Personally I was just after a fun game and a really good story for my character, and that was there. I didn't want an mmorpg type world where I just explore and talk to people indefinitely.

I was looking for a great experience from the sequal to one of my favourite games of all time. I got what i wanted, a good experience with the game, but - as this thread clearly shows - some issues I hope they take into consideration in the design of the third installment.

They didnt have as many years as Dragon Age, but then again they didn't start at zero.. but could improve on the ME1-platform. Thats why I find it hard to understand why some elements from ME1 was dropped in ME2. Elements that would connect me with the characters, because if you don't manage to connect with them the whole point with sacrifices and hard choices in the game is all for nothing...

I lost one of my crew in ME2 - and I really didn't "feel" anything... It didn't really matter.. When I played renegade in M1 - I had BIG PROBLEMS staying loyal to the renegade-side when on Virmire... because I liked the character too much. Why the big difference?

Obviously the characters was involved and alive in a far better way in the first game. Even if the characters were various and had more potential in the sequel, Bioware didn't fully take advantage of it. Im here to say: Shame on you, Bioware! 

[Darth Obvious]

Willie_on_Wheels wrote...

Party banter is stupid, and has no relevance to character development. Examples:

Alistair : I say something in good-humour!
Morrigan : I make a snide comment to inform you that your good-humour sickens me!

Oghren: I am a dwarf! I like to drink ale and axe people!
Sten: I am a foreigner. You are wrong for not being like me!

Yep. 

[Valmy]

Traumacrazy wrote...

spock06 wrote...

ME1 had a little
DA:O had a lot
ME2 has none

What is it?

Um, bad combat and boring gameplay? Crap graphics?

party banter

The party members do often have things to say but you are right they do not talk amongst themselves as often as one would like (I mean they do a little bit...)

I think it has more to do with how many joinable NPCs there are than anything else.

[WMK01]

I do miss the party banter. No idea why they took it out...

Modifié par WMK01, 09 février 2010 - 03:06 .

[Lusitanum]

spernus wrote...

Worst for Bioware are Jade empire and NWN.

Out of the 2,the weakest is definitively Jade imo.Honestly,I haven't seen anyone who will mention characters from that game since they were completely forgettable.Combat system was very poor as well and way too simplistic.

The story was solid however,despite being cliche.The sum of all part is a solid rpg,but it didn't represent what Bioware is capable of doing.Bioware shouldn't make solid rpg,but some of if not the best in the business.

No memorable characters? What about Sagacious Zu, the Closed Fist character that you never got the chance to be? Or Kang the Mad, who Lord knows deserved that name ? Or the absolute best villain that Bioware has created in a long time? And let's not forget Sir Roderick Ponce von Fontlebottom the Magnificent Bastard, voiced by the always amazing John Cleese. Those don't count?

I'll agree that JE could have been a lot better. The combat got repetitive very quickly, following the Open Palm or the Closed Fist way had almost no impact on gameplay whatsoever and your literally spent more time talking to people than actually playing, but it was still a memorable game well worth your time.

[UltimateRC]

I have to agree.



This is one of my major gripes with ME2. The interaction with your crew, and the interaction between them, was ridiculously simplistic. Recruit them in some arbitrary way, chat to them a bit, doesn't matter what you say, do some side-quest for them, they're instantly loyal. Absolute bull****. Seems quite a step back.



There should definitely have been more interaction between the squad, in missions, and on the ship, post mission chats, chance encounters in the mess hall or in the armory etc. My decisions on-mission upsetting or pleasing them, maybe them feeling left out, or welcoming the free meals for no work, if I don't take them with me every so often. The complexity is very low.



I was completely surprised when *ahem* two of my squad members had a bit of a squabble when I wasn't even aware they'd ever spoken to one another.



Most of my squad members seem bought for me by the *ahem*spoilers* and not so much with me because they like me and my cause.

[Eudaemonium]

I have to agree - partially. TBH, I found ME1's cast to be rather bland and uninteresting with the plausible exceptiosn of Garrus and Tali, and that wasn't by much. Wrex was reasonably cool, and the others were dull. Liara particularly, who had the personality of a blank slate, but I still romanced her because Ashley was so meh.



I though in general that ME2 had *much* better characters. Better character interaction? No. But the basic structure of the characters was vastly superior to ME. They felt less like cliches and more like actual characters. The exception is Miranda, who annoyed me like hell (I won't even mention Zaeed, as he was practically a non-character). I particularly loved Mordin, but he's been mentioned enough He was definitely the most emotionally complex character, and he was funny. The problem was, the entire game was built around building your team, and by the end, you didn't really get the impression they were a team - just a collection of interesting misfits who were loyal to Shep but not to each other. For a game that was so character-centric, *more* interaction would have greatly benefitted it. More moments of tension like Tali/Legion and Jack/Miranda would have been a great help.

One thing I loved was the extensive character missions: I thought they were, in general, very well done, but yet again doing a single mission to gain someone's loylty seemed a bit unrealistic, as well done as they were. DA:O did this a lot better, I think, with the personal missions + approval ratings system. Though, IMO, ME2's personal missions were *vastly* superior to DA:O's.

When ME3 finally comes around, I do hope they increase the character interaction. However, seeing as ME2 was entirely focused around teh characters, I feel the lack of it somewhat brought the game down in my eyes. Well, that and the end...

[Homebound]

Ya, the characters need to interact more with each other. I can just imagine Miranda and Jack sharing a dinner table, Miranda putting spoonfuls of chow in her mouth, while Jack stares her down the other side of the table, while chewing down on a loaf of bread.

[Jebel Krong]

mordin and legion are both more interesting and deeper characters than any mass effect 1 character - including wrex. and miranda & (surprisingly) tali are also more interesting LIs than any in mass effect 1.

[axl99]

I agree about the game needing more character interaction.



The Normandy turns into a hotel in a few gameplay hours and all of the squadmates are being all anti-social with each other, except for a couple who work with the Cerberus crew aboard the ship.



That's understandable. Most of them are dangerous professionals after all. But it'd be nice to see a gradual change towards each other the more you get them to work together during missions or encourage them to talk to the crew. Maybe a couple of the squaddies wouldn't hate each other so much.



I mean we see it with Joker and EDI. Why not everyone else?



Every time we see them, we see them in the same pose doing the same things over and over again. A little more character animation wouldn't hurt. Even the cook is just lazily sitting back in his kitchen instead of working more grub. Sure, it's a suicide mission and all, but isn't there anything else other than loyalty missions or romances the characters want to get off their chest?



Give 'em shore leave and see what they do in their free time!



If they wanna play poker, show them playing poker. If they wanna get drinks and grub with you, show them eating and drinking and partying with you. Maybe you might learn more dance moves from them y'know?



One thing ME2 has over ME1 and DA:O was being able to see most of the characters in their own element - which I digress usually happens during introduction and one or two in-game cinematic cutscenes.



We get an immediate sense of how powerful they are and how they choose to use their abilities.



Outside of that, when we talk to them most of the things we know about them are verbal hyperbole. There are no visual cues like flashbacks or recurring memories, or even a first person view of Shepard through alien eyes.



Most of the cutscenes we get are of Shepard, so we end up seeing everything from his point of view.



It still bothers me the Illusive Man chose the dossiers you get to recruit people - again with a couple exceptions on certain characters. I'd rather have a cutscene where Shepard pours through the whole list and narrows down his dirty dozen, so it'd feel like Shepard distinctly chose all the people on his team. It's bad enough Miranda and Jacob are forced on him.



And if you know more about the people you're working with, you'll have something to say to TIM if he ever questions your judgement on the matter [most especially with one or two characters in the roster].



Building the team means building trust, we need to see how much your team trusts you.

[ZehnWaters]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

More banter between characters as you run around in non-combat zones. More like DA:O in the beginning of that game. When you first get to Lothering Alistair and Morrigan have alot of dialogue. And Morrigan talks to your dog alot too.

Just more party banter.

More conferneces where the ENTIRE crew gets together and talks would be cool too...

...Anything that increases party banter between each other.

How about sometimes, your crewmates just come and find you and put you on the spot and ask you some questions etc.???

I totally agree.  I miss having the party members interact with each other and not just you.  I thought you were supposed to be a crew; a crew is not just people who follow someone else.  They're friends with each other as well.

[ZehnWaters]

Double-post.

Modifié par ZehnWaters, 09 février 2010 - 04:55 .

[mjs0066]

Kordaris wrote...

casedawgz wrote...

I think the presence of Mordin Solus invalidates most claims of lack of character depth.

On the other extreme Jack is a non-person.
But yes, what they could return is for example crew conferences that took place in ME1, with characters arguing.

I do agree with you on this, there could have been more overall interaction between the various characters on the normandy and a little bit more conversation while on missions.  However, given the scope of the game and the fact that bioware doesn't have limitless resources, I can forgive some of these minor issues.

My hope is that for the third game, now that they have a great combat system that will only need minor revision in my opinion (same with character classes), they will be able to focus a litle bit more on some of these immersion elements that are a little bit light in ME2.

Still, even with their faults I still think that the ME games are some of the best out there.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Ooooh, a riddle, I like riddles.


...crap.

In Mass Effect I ran into the most interesting character I've witnessed in Wrex. It was a joy having him along.

WHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! You cite WREX as an interesting character? The bipedal frog-dinosaur who spouts one-liners straight from Die Hard?! This is too good.

In Mass Effect I had to do difficult choices, even when I tried to stay loyal to one side (Paragon/Renegade).

Difficult choices? Are you kidding me? You had the good option, and the evil option. There was absolutely no gray, not like in Mass Effect 2. ME2 actually forced me to think about the merits of the genophage, and I still don't have a clear opinion on it.

ME1, on the other hand, was so clear-cut it was almost stupid. A good game, but far inferior to ME2 in terms of alignment.

In Mass Effect I enjoyed seeing my characters interact with each other, with chit chat in the elevators.

Oh yeah, great. Each character had about 3 conversations about absolutely nothing. Oh hey Tali, what's up with your immune system? Laughable.

There is more character interaction in ME2. Heck, the different characters actually acknowledge the other's existance, and not in some cheesy elevator scene, but by actually TALKING TO AND ABOUT EACH OTHER. I know, such a step downward from the great deep RPG ME1 was, right?

Most of the chatter in ME1 was generic, meaning every character says almost the same thing no matter who you bring. Brrr, sure is COLD on Novaria, right? Absolutely horrible.

[screwoffreg]

The main thing lacking in ME 2 was party banter. That was always fun for me in previous Bioware games, especially in regards to the romances. In Baldurs Gate, Jaheira, Aerie and Viconia were at each others throats and it seemed at some points they would kill each other. In this game, the romance options didn't even acknowledge one another. Hell, if Liara was your LI and you strolled in with an ME 2 character on your arm, she probably wouldn't even flinch...

More party banter would be something to look forward to, but overall I LIKED the characters in ME 2. I thought I would hate a few, but even Jack I grew sympathetic to and I loved Tali, Mordin and even the somewhat flat Zaeed. I just hope Bioware uses ME 3 to wrap up loose ends and really push forward with the cast we HAVE rather than try to shoehorn in more random characters at the end.

Modifié par screwoffreg, 09 février 2010 - 06:53 .

[halO bendeR]

I actually think that the 'loyalty' quests in ME2 made the characters a lot more realized than in previous Bioware games. The problem is, the character development really only effected Shepard and the character in question.

I agree 100% that more party interaction is needed for ME3 (or any expansions on the way for ME2). I'd settle for the way DA:O did it with party banter, but what I'd really like to see are actual scenes where the squad interacts. We got a little taste of that with Jack and Miranda (and two other characters), but there wasn't nearly enough build up to those moments, nor were there equivalent scenes for the rest of your squad.

[Akinra]

Justin2k wrote...

Lmaoboat wrote...

I never really cared for the characters in DA:O liked I did in ME 2.

Characters were far superior in ME2.

There was better banter, chit-chat, talking options in DA:O

But the characters were much better certainly.  Problem is more the "i have nothing to say come back later" of ME2.

This sums it up perfectly for me. The characters in ME2 were better in DA:O, but there wasn't enough interaction between squad members or with Shepard.

Modifié par Akinra, 09 février 2010 - 07:28 .

[St Fredriksen]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Ooooh, a riddle, I like riddles.


...crap.

In Mass Effect I ran into the most interesting character I've witnessed in Wrex. It was a joy having him along.

WHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! You cite WREX as an interesting character? The bipedal frog-dinosaur who spouts one-liners straight from Die Hard?! This is too good.

Yes, the "Best sidekick of the year"-bigpedal frog-dinosaur

In Mass Effect I had to do difficult choices, even when I tried to stay loyal to one side (Paragon/Renegade).

Difficult choices? Are you kidding me? You had the good option, and the evil option. There was absolutely no gray, not like in Mass Effect 2. ME2 actually forced me to think about the merits of the genophage, and I still don't have a clear opinion on it.

Genophage was a complex question, no doubt. Probably the hardest choice for me too, but I was never "unsure" of which answer led to paragon. There was - like you write about ME1 - only right or wrong. In ME1 you must make an sacrifice, no good or evil choice, just a goddamn tough decision (unless you hated one of them). I felt that both the banter and these tough choices happend to seldom in ME1, i would love to have more, but in ME2 there is nothing. Hence the topics name. Thank you.

In Mass Effect I enjoyed seeing my characters interact with each other, with chit chat in the elevators.

Oh yeah, great. Each character had about 3 conversations about absolutely nothing. Oh hey Tali, what's up with your immune system? Laughable.

There is more character interaction in ME2. Heck, the different characters actually acknowledge the other's existance, and not in some cheesy elevator scene, but by actually TALKING TO AND ABOUT EACH OTHER. I know, such a step downward from the great deep RPG ME1 was, right?

Most of the chatter in ME1 was generic, meaning every character says almost the same thing no matter who you bring. Brrr, sure is COLD on Novaria, right? Absolutely horrible.

I had Miranda and Jack with me on several missions.. we seemed to have a good time killing people together. Then I all of a sudden, out of nowhere, they interact in this cutscene... It's already mentioned in this thread, but it would RELLY be appriciated to pick up some signals from the team. Now I have no idea what they like or dislike because they never interact with each other the way I would expect a character in a Bioware game to do. There is MANY examples of character complexity and interaction thats rally lacking in the game, just read the thread.

Modifié par St Fredriksen, 09 février 2010 - 09:24 .

[St Fredriksen]

St Fredriksen wrote...

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

Ooooh, a riddle, I like riddles.


...crap.

In Mass Effect I ran into the most interesting character I've witnessed in Wrex. It was a joy having him along.

WHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!! You cite WREX as an interesting character? The bipedal frog-dinosaur who spouts one-liners straight from Die Hard?! This is too good.

Yes, the "Best sidekick of the year"-bigpedal frog-dinosaur

In Mass Effect I had to do difficult choices, even when I tried to stay loyal to one side (Paragon/Renegade).

Difficult choices? Are you kidding me? You had the good option, and the evil option. There was absolutely no gray, not like in Mass Effect 2. ME2 actually forced me to think about the merits of the genophage, and I still don't have a clear opinion on it.

Genophage was a complex question, no doubt. Probably the hardest choice for me too, but I was never "unsure" of which answer led to paragon. There was - like you write about ME1 - only right or wrong. In ME1 you must make an sacrifice, no good or evil choice, just a goddamn tough decision (unless you hated one of them). I felt that both the banter and these tough choices happend to seldom in ME1, i would love to have more, but in ME2 there is nothing. Hence the topics name. Thank you.

In Mass Effect I enjoyed seeing my characters interact with each other, with chit chat in the elevators.

Oh yeah, great. Each character had about 3 conversations about absolutely nothing. Oh hey Tali, what's up with your immune system? Laughable.

There is more character interaction in ME2. Heck, the different characters actually acknowledge the other's existance, and not in some cheesy elevator scene, but by actually TALKING TO AND ABOUT EACH OTHER. I know, such a step downward from the great deep RPG ME1 was, right?

Most of the chatter in ME1 was generic, meaning every character says almost the same thing no matter who you bring. Brrr, sure is COLD on Novaria, right? Absolutely horrible.

I had Miranda and Jack with me on several missions.. we seemed to have a good time killing people together. Then I all of a sudden, out of nowhere, they interact in this cutscene... It's already mentioned in this thread, but it would RELLY be appriciated to pick up some signals, so this tension would build up and you were just anxiously waiting for someone to burst. Now I have no idea what they like or dislike because they never interact with each other the way I would expect a character in a Bioware game to do. There is good examples thats rally lacking in the game, just read the thread, and reply to those if you disagree. I would be suprised if everyone ment the same thing all the time

[Nozybidaj]

Geawiel wrote...

Things like that. Are what give the game depth and get you sucked into the game. Dragon Age was extremely good at it, as mentioned before here and in other threads/places. The decisions made towards the end of ME2 were not difficults and i really felt no vested interest in saving anyone but Tali and Garrus, since i had them from ME1.

This.  The ME team needs to spend some time with the DA:O team.  The concepts of the characters in ME2 were interesting, more so than in DA:O (that may just be because i prefer sci-fi to fantasy) but the execution of the characters and their depth in comparison to the DA:O characters just falls way short.  

I was hoping to see improvement over DA:O with the characters in ME2 but in many ways it was a step backward from ME1.

[newcomplex]

Tali had one piece of dialogue, Garrus had two.

Sorry, but of all the complaints you could make about ME2, this one is simply not valid.(In comparison to ME1)

Modifié par newcomplex, 09 février 2010 - 09:42 .