125 réponses à ce sujet

[jasonontko]

I liked that the last decision of ME 2 was to either blow the Collector station or save it for TIM.  What I don’t like is that this decision seems to be at the mercy of the whims of the writers that could easily screw up Mass Effects 3.

My choice was to save it because hate or really hate TIM he’s the only man in the galaxy who can stop the reapers at the moment and while TIM can screw up and get indoctrinated or use the tech to become some kind of galactic emperor, I just could not see how reapers will be defeated without that bass.  One Reaper in ME 1 wiped the floor with a Council fleet, there are easily thousands of reapers coming.

However everyone in the squad just hates the idea.  That makes me wonder where the writings are going with this.  BioWare games are appealing to me because decisions are not always black and white and outcomes are somewhat unpredictable but this blanket disapproval seems to fly in the face of BioWare’s history.

I can definitely see an awesome ME 3 where the base allows TIM to build fleets of non-sentient reaper ships to take on the reapers at the cost of TIM possibly indoctrinating the crews to serve him and making him the galactic emperor.  While the paragon choice of destroying the station would cause you to use dark energy to blow up stars to kill the reapers essentially turning Earth and other planets as kamikaze traps (think this is the reason for the sun being TIMs background).  The death toll will be high but the galaxy would not be under thumb of one man, in the very long term the galaxy might be in better shape then going the other route.  This would be a great cause and effect scenario because it difficult to tell which is worse, the decision then would have several moral dimensions.  Was putting TIM in charge just trading one form of slavery for another or was it a necessary evil that saved billions?  Thats kind of writing makes me think.

What does not make think is if there no repercussions for blowing up the station, arguably the only thing we have that could beat the reapers here and now.  Blowing it up is basically rolling the dice in hopes that something will save us, which it has too otherwise the Paragon choice will screw you over royally in ME3, and the writers will never let that happen.   

But I get the feeling that the writers are aiming to go full paragon on us renegades (though I was 95% paragon in the end) by writing a mindless ME3 that turns TIM into a super villain idiot and the base just causes way more problems then its worth and the goody two shoes paragons get off the hook for rolling the dice.

What do you think.  Are the writers going to screw over the renegades or are they going to muddy the waters?  

[dreman9999]

He's Not the only man. Your the only man or woman to stop the reapers. He's the only man with power that's actively trying to stop the reaper but I would not go as far as anything to give him so much power at once. You'd be a fool to think that you could control him in anyway. We don't even know where he is.

[AtreiyaN7]

Well, the crew members react negatively if you keep the base because even they think TIM has ulterior motives beyond having Cerberus safeguard humanity. I'm a Paragon, but I gave TIM the base the first time because I listened to him and decided to be pragmatic. It was afterwards when he gave his human dominance spiel that I decided it would be better to blow the thing up on my second suicide run. I don't think that in ME3 you'll be forced to somehow go Paragon since neither game thus far has forced you to take a particular direction. I think it's entirely possible that blowing up the base will have a negative impact, even if it is the Paragon decision. Who says we're going to get off scot-free? We just don't know - I think we might even be making life harder on ourselves in ME3 by doing so. Still, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like TIM's behavior and don't trust him. Besides, now I have two diffent outcomes (base saved + base destroyed), so I'll be happy to see the results in ME3.

** Edit: ACK fixed the typos.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 08 février 2010 - 02:49 .

[jasonontko]

dreman9999 wrote...

He's Not the only man. Your the only man or woman to stop the reapers. He's the only man with power that's actively trying to stop the reaper but I would not go as far as anything to give him so much power at once. You'd be a fool to think that you could control him in anyway. We don't even know where he is.

That not really the choice though.  It either give TIM the sation or blow it up.  I would love giving the Alliance the station but that is not an option.

[jasonontko]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Well, the crew members react negatively if you keep the base because even they think TIM has ulterior motives beyond having Cerberus safeguard humanity. I'm a Paragon, but I gave TIM the base the first time because I listened to him and decided to be pragmatic. It was afterwards when he gave his human dominance spiel that I decided it would be better to blow the thing up on my second suicide run. I don't think that in ME3 you'll be forced to somehow go Paragon since neither game thus far has forced you to take a particular direction. I think it's entirely possible that blowing up the base will have a negative impact, even if it is the Paragon decision. Who says we're going to get off scot-free? We just don't know - I think we might even be making life harder on ourselves in ME3 by doing so. Still, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like TIM's behavior and don't trust him. Besides, now I have two diffent outcomes (based saved + based destroyed), so I'll be happy to see the results in ME3.

I had a simalr reaction to TIM and I hope your right that they will muddy the waters a bit.

[Vaenier]

I am a paragon, and this is my favorite Collector Base in the galaxy.

I kept it. It is MY base, that I may let TIM use for a while.

[jasonontko]

Vaenier wrote...

I am a paragon, and this is my favorite Collector Base in the galaxy.
I kept it. It is MY base, that I may let TIM use for a while.

LOL

[AtreiyaN7]

Doh, doh, doh! Typos in my post! I meant *base saved + base destroyed, but yeah, I have hopes that in ME3 we'll see surprising and unexpected results, regardless of our alignments.

[Series5Ranger]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Well, the crew members react negatively if you keep the base because even they think TIM has ulterior motives beyond having Cerberus safeguard humanity. I'm a Paragon, but I gave TIM the base the first time because I listened to him and decided to be pragmatic. It was afterwards when he gave his human dominance spiel that I decided it would be better to blow the thing up on my second suicide run. I don't think that in ME3 you'll be forced to somehow go Paragon since neither game thus far has forced you to take a particular direction. I think it's entirely possible that blowing up the base will have a negative impact, even if it is the Paragon decision. Who says we're going to get off scot-free? We just don't know - I think we might even be making life harder on ourselves in ME3 by doing so. Still, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like TIM's behavior and don't trust him. Besides, now I have two diffent outcomes (base saved + base destroyed), so I'll be happy to see the results in ME3.

** Edit: ACK fixed the typos.

And remember the loading Screen that says "Decisions in Mass Effect 2 could have DIRE Consequences in Mass Effect 3" (My Emphasis)

Modifié par Series5Ranger, 08 février 2010 - 02:54 .

[Series5Ranger]

You kept the base, I understand why you did, but were you even paying attention, in the 1st or 2nd game, or actually talked to Legion, or played the Cerberus research team logs during the Reaper IFF Mission?

[jasonontko]

Series5Ranger wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Well, the crew members react negatively if you keep the base because even they think TIM has ulterior motives beyond having Cerberus safeguard humanity. I'm a Paragon, but I gave TIM the base the first time because I listened to him and decided to be pragmatic. It was afterwards when he gave his human dominance spiel that I decided it would be better to blow the thing up on my second suicide run. I don't think that in ME3 you'll be forced to somehow go Paragon since neither game thus far has forced you to take a particular direction. I think it's entirely possible that blowing up the base will have a negative impact, even if it is the Paragon decision. Who says we're going to get off scot-free? We just don't know - I think we might even be making life harder on ourselves in ME3 by doing so. Still, I've come to the conclusion that I don't like TIM's behavior and don't trust him. Besides, now I have two diffent outcomes (base saved + base destroyed), so I'll be happy to see the results in ME3.

** Edit: ACK fixed the typos.

And remember the loading Screen that says "Decisions in Mass Effect 2 could have DIRE Consequences in Mass Effect 3" (My Emphasis)

I hope there is dire consequences but I want dire consequences for either choice otherwise ME3 will be boooooring.  Just making it dire for the Renegade when there is dam good reasons for saving the thing makes for a rather contrived ME3 plot line, no?

[Alex_The_Bloody]

Well theres always the possibilty it will be swept under the rug like most ME 1 choices however i feel that any way you cut it blowing up the base is just such a waste worst case i figured Shep could just steal it back. I mean most people dont even believe in the reapers so why blow up your only proof no i think better to study it and hope that illusive man doesnt use it to rule the galaxy but given the structure of cerberus i dont see him as particularly meglomaniacle i mean his names the illusive man for a reason he keeps to the shadows being a galactic despot just doesnt seem to fit in my mind

[jasonontko]

Series5Ranger wrote...

You kept the base, I understand why you did, but were you even paying attention, in the 1st or 2nd game, or actually talked to Legion, or played the Cerberus research team logs during the Reaper IFF Mission?

Yes I have and perhaps you should tell me how exactly your plan on dealing with the reapers without that base?  Is there anything in ME2 that says you will have anything to take them on.  Your as much rolling the dice blowing the thing as I am rolling the dice giving TIM it, hence the concern that the writers are going to make this a duh decesion that will make ME3 not as interesting as I could be. 

Also I do not think stupid enough to get indoctrinated, I think he is capable of evil but I think it may be a lesser evil compare to what the reapers will do.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Hopefully Renegades die.

[Alex_The_Bloody]

But i def think bioware made the illusive man seem shady but they never show him do anything evil so giving up a valuable weapon just cuz you dont trust the guy may be a way for bioware to sort of trick people into blowing the up base as the illusive man couls still turn out to be a powerfull ally and maybe even a hero just cuz he puts humanity first i dont think is enough to go on as far as saying whether hes good or bad overall

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

jasonontko wrote...

Series5Ranger wrote...

You kept the base, I understand why you did, but were you even paying attention, in the 1st or 2nd game, or actually talked to Legion, or played the Cerberus research team logs during the Reaper IFF Mission?

Yes I have and perhaps you should tell me how exactly your plan on dealing with the reapers without that base?  Is there anything in ME2 that says you will have anything to take them on.  Your as much rolling the dice blowing the thing as I am rolling the dice giving TIM it, hence the concern that the writers are going to make this a duh decesion that will make ME3 not as interesting as I could be. 

Also I do not think stupid enough to get indoctrinated, I think he is capable of evil but I think it may be a lesser evil compare to what the reapers will do.

You destroyed a Reaper before and sure they destroyed the Council's army... but the Council was also unprepared.

This time around you have experience w/ the Reapers, they won't be able to isolated each planet and conquer it, and you can have the entire galaxy ready to fight. 

Even Sovreign admitted that an entire galatic force untied is a threat to the Reapers, quite obviously using their technology isn't the only way to defeat them. Both the Paragon and Renegade can defeat the Reapers, their choices only differ in what will happen to the galaxy afterwords. The Renegade will create a human empire that subjugates the other races (and thus is the side that shows lack of foresight) while the Paragon has everyone coexist.

[Vaenier]

What is to stop Shepard from going to the base and killing it again if TIM does something stupid.

[Alex_The_Bloody]

It would be so awesome if the end of ME3 was the reapers winning because you didnt rally enough forces to your aid like people who kill the rachni blow up geth and blow up the reaper baseyour just screwed.

[jasonontko]

Alex_The_Bloody wrote...

Well theres always the possibilty it will be swept under the rug like most ME 1 choices however i feel that any way you cut it blowing up the base is just such a waste worst case i figured Shep could just steal it back. I mean most people dont even believe in the reapers so why blow up your only proof no i think better to study it and hope that illusive man doesnt use it to rule the galaxy but given the structure of cerberus i dont see him as particularly meglomaniacle i mean his names the illusive man for a reason he keeps to the shadows being a galactic despot just doesnt seem to fit in my mind

Yes proof of the reapers is icing on the cake.  I hope I can shove it in the councels face after they called me crazy.   And you might have a point with TIM, but could just rule the galaxy from behind the scenes like indoctrinate the council or somthing.  Man that might veen be cooler if he did that.

[jasonontko]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

jasonontko wrote...

Series5Ranger wrote...

You kept the base, I understand why you did, but were you even paying attention, in the 1st or 2nd game, or actually talked to Legion, or played the Cerberus research team logs during the Reaper IFF Mission?

Yes I have and perhaps you should tell me how exactly your plan on dealing with the reapers without that base?  Is there anything in ME2 that says you will have anything to take them on.  Your as much rolling the dice blowing the thing as I am rolling the dice giving TIM it, hence the concern that the writers are going to make this a duh decesion that will make ME3 not as interesting as I could be. 

Also I do not think stupid enough to get indoctrinated, I think he is capable of evil but I think it may be a lesser evil compare to what the reapers will do.

You destroyed a Reaper before and sure they destroyed the Council's army... but the Council was also unprepared.

This time around you have experience w/ the Reapers, they won't be able to isolated each planet and conquer it, and you can have the entire galaxy ready to fight. 

Even Sovreign admitted that an entire galatic force untied is a threat to the Reapers, quite obviously using their technology isn't the only way to defeat them. Both the Paragon and Renegade can defeat the Reapers, their choices only differ in what will happen to the galaxy afterwords. The Renegade will create a human empire that subjugates the other races (and thus is the side that shows lack of foresight) while the Paragon has everyone coexist.

Yes but they are not ready and they dont believe the reapers are comming  and you just blew up the only proof they exist. 

[4lice4nn]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Hopefully Renegades die.

NO U!!!

I love my Renegade Shepard. He cracks me up!

[jasonontko]

Alex_The_Bloody wrote...

But i def think bioware made the illusive man seem shady but they never show him do anything evil so giving up a valuable weapon just cuz you dont trust the guy may be a way for bioware to sort of trick people into blowing the up base as the illusive man couls still turn out to be a powerfull ally and maybe even a hero just cuz he puts humanity first i dont think is enough to go on as far as saying whether hes good or bad overall

I hope your right but I also want to pay something for keeping it.  I twould be just as contrived if there was no ramifications to keeping the thing.

[jasonontko]

Vaenier wrote...

What is to stop Shepard from going to the base and killing it again if TIM does something stupid.

Yea I hope the writers give you that choice though.

[jasonontko]

4lice4nn wrote...

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

Hopefully Renegades die.

NO U!!!

I love my Renegade Shepard. He cracks me up!

LOL

[jasonontko]

Alex_The_Bloody wrote...

It would be so awesome if the end of ME3 was the reapers winning because you didnt rally enough forces to your aid like people who kill the rachni blow up geth and blow up the reaper baseyour just screwed.

Thats my hope too.  Though I killed the queen, I hate spiders, I wish I could have stomped it with my foot.   Saved most everyone else though.