140 réponses à ce sujet

[tzeraph1]

I prefer scanning, but only because this time it serves a purpose. How about a mini-game instead of scanning the whole planet though? Or just a waiting time while scanning is done. Both the mako and the scanning approach is too tideous in my point of view.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Mako drives = burning hot needles in the eye

Planet scanning = drinking coffee that is very slighty too hot to enjoy

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 09 février 2010 - 12:12 .

[drkl0rd2000]

Lunarsnausages wrote...

in all honesty there needs to be tedium in resource gathering, you need to earn it...

Why?

Perhaps in ME3 if Shepard and his/her crew stands alone in trying to save the galaxy gather resources might be realistic but put yourself in the shoes of the illusive man for a moment. If I had spent billions on bringing Shepard back to life I would have no problem tossing a few more million creds of resources in their direction to keep them alive and give them a fighting chance!!!

To many games now days insist on trying to artifically increase game length by adding in annoying features such as planet scanning. Seriously if they need more source material for a longer story and less annoying filler material I'd be glad to lend my creative ideas as would any number of others in these forums.

Ahh perhaps I come from the days of longer stories and better gameplay than modern games can accomplish. I remember Wing commander 3, 4 and prophecy. Longer stories and less tedium made for better games.

Again I will say it "If I wanted an annoying poorly designed java based game like the planet scanner I have 1000s to choose from at addictinggames.com so why do they feel it's needed in a main stream game?"

[FaolonSD]

Scanning is boring.

Mako made me want to set kittens on fire.

[Monstrion]

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

....

Yeah, artificial prolonging of the game time. If I wanted to do busywork, Ill go play WoW and grind like a mofo for pointless hours.

Mako was assterrible. The idea was great, but the actual implementation was totally flawed. Riding around planets which look like random generated slabs of terrain with textures composed of pixels the size of elephants. The controls on PC were unbearable. Only things that could kill you were thrasher maws with their instakill burrowstrike and heavy concentration of geth. The rewards for dicking around with mako for xx hours? Barely anything.

Scanning, at least upgraded, is still pretty obvious busywork but at least it works. Scanning rich planets provides more than enough resources to get all upgrades and they are spread all around. It could be much better and in fact it could disappear from the game altogether.

Mako was fun maybe for 30 minutes, tolerable for another 2 hours and totally painful for the rest of eternity.
Scanning was meh-fun for first three planets and tolerable for the rest.

To sum up, I am a mako hater but I like the idea. If they put some real effort into that part of the game, I would take it over scanning anytime.

[WrexEffex]

I perfer scanning just because I hate trying to drive up vertical mountains. It's kind of...impossible.



And scanning at least serves a purpose this time around. Without those resources, you're most likely but definitely not going to do very well on the suicide mission.

[LostHH]

Mako.



Scanning is boring and grinding. Atleast there was a landscape to explore with the Mako, just the bases and relics were simple and samey.

Improve not remove!

[Aedan_Cousland]

Improve not remove!

I agree.

The Mako for all of its flaws, was 100 times better than planet scanning.

I like the idea of resources being used for upgrades, but do not like planet scanning as it is now. It is way too time consuming and is mind-numbingly boring to boot. At least with the Mako you occasionally got to explore a beautiful or exotic planet, and/or shoot things. Planet scanning is just a tedious minigame that is not in the least bit fun.

The problem with the Mako was that there were too many worlds that looked the same, or that had terrain that was hard to navigate. Hopefully in ME3 we get a vehicle like the MAKO but more interesting worlds to explore, and with maps that are easy to navigate.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 10 février 2010 - 08:16 .

[YakoHako]

The Mako was horrible. There wasn't a "landscape to explore", there was just craploads of trying not to rip your hair out as you went from point A to point B over a steep mountain that was there for no reason other than to ****** you off. I prefer scanning by far.



I'm also very happy that your star map will show you where your missions are and where you've explored and what you haven't and how much you have left to explore in that galaxy.

[LostHH]

YakoHako wrote...

The Mako was horrible. There wasn't a "landscape to explore", there was just craploads of trying not to rip your hair out as you went from point A to point B over a steep mountain that was there for no reason other than to ****** you off. I prefer scanning by far.

I'm also very happy that your star map will show you where your missions are and where you've explored and what you haven't and how much you have left to explore in that galaxy.

Funny that as when there was a big mountain in the way I usually went around it... Must be something wrong with your sense of direction of something.

[YakoHako]

LostHH wrote...

YakoHako wrote...

The Mako was horrible. There wasn't a "landscape to explore", there was just craploads of trying not to rip your hair out as you went from point A to point B over a steep mountain that was there for no reason other than to ****** you off. I prefer scanning by far.

I'm also very happy that your star map will show you where your missions are and where you've explored and what you haven't and how much you have left to explore in that galaxy.

Funny that as when there was a big mountain in the way I usually went around it... Must be something wrong with your sense of direction of something.

Several times, exactly where you need to go will be on the top of a very steep mountain.

[LostHH]

YakoHako wrote...

LostHH wrote...

YakoHako wrote...

The Mako was horrible. There wasn't a "landscape to explore", there was just craploads of trying not to rip your hair out as you went from point A to point B over a steep mountain that was there for no reason other than to ****** you off. I prefer scanning by far.

I'm also very happy that your star map will show you where your missions are and where you've explored and what you haven't and how much you have left to explore in that galaxy.

Funny that as when there was a big mountain in the way I usually went around it... Must be something wrong with your sense of direction of something.

Several times, exactly where you need to go will be on the top of a very steep mountain.

I remember a couple of Salarian mummies on top of mountains but that's it.

[YakoHako]

Those damn Salarians, always placing their corpses in the worst places.

[gr8mc]

you do know there goin to be bringing out a ground vehicle with ground based missions don't you ?

[LostHH]

Yeah can't wait. Makes me wonder what other dlc they have planned. Seems like there is so much potential just waiting to be tapped in this game.

YakoHako wrote...

Those damn Salarians, always placing their corpses in the worst places.

lol

Modifié par LostHH, 10 février 2010 - 08:41 .

[Looy]

Mako was less crap, but took longer. Planet scanning is really tedious but at least I can get it out of the really quickly.

[Monstrion]

LostHH wrote...

....Atleast there was a landscape to explore with the Mako, just the bases and relics were simple and samey. ....

I am sorry but what exactly was there to explore?
Awesome sights? No.
Interesting places? No.
Copy&paste bases? Yeah, some.

The terrain could have been totally flat and it would be just the same. No flora, next to no fauna. Just ugly texture and some rocks.

[LostHH]

Monstrion wrote...

LostHH wrote...

....Atleast there was a landscape to explore with the Mako, just the bases and relics were simple and samey. ....

I am sorry but what exactly was there to explore?
Awesome sights? No.
Interesting places? No.
Copy&paste bases? Yeah, some.

The terrain could have been totally flat and it would be just the same. No flora, next to no fauna. Just ugly texture and some rocks.

So improve it rather than remove it. Would've worked out fine.
Opinions.

[Monstrion]

LostHH wrote...
...

Yeah I agree, improve it not remove it. But do you realize how much work it would take? To keep it on the same scale at least

I dont blame BW for ditching it when they figured out they would have to dedicate single team just to this part of the game )

[vkt62]

ME1 the problem most of the time was never the Mako. It was the unclimbable terrain. You would spend 5 seconds scanning a planet to find the minerals or 5 mins to find them on the planet you were driving around and this was while doing another mission which made it more pleasant to do.

In ME2, all you are doing is just scanning. And I have to spend anywhere from 40-50 probes just finding minerals and nothing else. This gets really irritating if you do that too many times since all you are doing is scanning and nothing else. There are about 10 N7 missions but all scanning is going to eat all the time.

The best thing would have been having a better terrain with the mako and a few scanning planets or a scanner which would give you double the output with half the time.

[Acero Azul]

each planet should have somewhere to land for a side mission even if it doesn't have many minerals to collect

[LostHH]

Monstrion wrote...

LostHH wrote...
...

Yeah I agree, improve it not remove it. But do you realize how much work it would take? To keep it on the same scale at least

I dont blame BW for ditching it when they figured out they would have to dedicate single team just to this part of the game )

Yeah it would take a lot of work on their (bioware) part. I'm kinda hoping the DLC delivers over the next couple of years rather than slow down after one or two missions.

[TuringPoint]

The MAKO:

I'd point out what sucked about the MAKO, but I think we've been over that enough.  Can't we all agree that it would be ideal if everyone could have fun and enjoy the resource management system?

You could explore with the MAKO.  The scanner does not offer the same sense of frontier exploration, a sort of conceptual freedom.

However, while the MAKO gameplay mechanic was a little more advanced than scanning, it was quite repetitive.  
Every planet required about the same amount of driving around, and some had less hills or more hills standing in your way, and some planets had very steep hills which made it fundamentally impossible to trek around the planet.  There wasn't one time - not a single time - my treks were rewarded by anything more than MAYBE a resource node, or maybe an anomaly with an interesting text box of a few sentences in length, or MAYBE even a full paragraph.  

Exploration:

I have never liked games that focused on exploration, like Morrowind or even Fallout 3.  But in ME 1, you wouldn't stumble on a dungeon in the wilderness, or random encounters, while hunting for resources, like you might in a Bethesda game - as uninteresting as that is to me, as little plot or character development as those games involved, they didn't even have THAT much going on when you explored in ME 1.  On occasion there would be a moderately entertaining skyline, or maybe an unusual anomaly that would pop up a text box.  An easter egg.

It was a nice gesture, and I appreciated it.  I can understand the loss of not having anything comparable in ME 2 - especially with the improved graphics engine.  I never hoped they would remove exploration completely.  Yet, the exploration was very static in ME 1, the only dynamic aspect being where you could find resources.  All the interesting objects could be reliably found on the same spot on their respective planets every play-through.  

So the whole exploration factor of ME1 is missing, but it was flawed enough that I personally - and certainly some others - don't miss it.  

A summary of the MAKO:

Nice little easter egg hunt, at best  - a monotonous, unrewarding time suck at worst.  Ideally Bioware would make something that wouldn't be unrewarding and monotonous to anyone.  

Resources:

With the importance of resources in this game, I'm glad they didn't go with random generation of resource nodes on a barren landscape.

Something the resource management in ME2 did is give you definable short-term goals for resource gathering.  It might've helped if they gave us long-term goals as well, perhaps the ability to see what all the available research projects would be and how much of each resource they would require.  

Some people might not have gone around the galaxy finding every resource they possibly could, then, only to realize later it wasn't ME 1 where resource nodes were limited to being only a little more common than what you needed, and they had just spent hours playing a game approximately the mental equivalent of minesweeper.  Yes, I can understand frustration with that.  I can't quite comprehend that some people don't understand that it's just a casual distraction.

One problem is that it is, after all, the forced casual distraction part.  

Forcing a casual distraction by making it an integral part to RPG advancement is not a good move, and not just because it forces some people who don't like the casual distraction - or casual distractions - on the player, but because it weakens character advancement.  Exploration can be reasonably rewarded and still add to the feeling of character growth that is integral to an RPG.  Defining said character growth with a minesweeper equivalent mini-game is not so good.  

You might as well go play minesweeper instead, and yet the story forces you to play the game to get resources to get better weapons and ship upgrades, to survive the final mission.  That was a poor play.  Even though I personally am basically fine with the scanner minigame, I can see that.

So what would correct this mis-step?  Adding it as a reward, in addition to credits, at the end of each mission?  Putting more resources to pick up in each mission, and you could go to a planet to find a few more units of some resource if you needed it?  Maybe an outright tutorial of when and how much planet scanning you should do for least frustration and greatest results?

[Paperghost]

Rocketman970 wrote...

Just wondering where people's opinions lie concerning the planet scanning that bioware implemented for ME2. I realize that planet scanning isn't a direct analog to the mako, but they serve somewhat the same purpose.

see, i don't think they served the same purpose at all and even talking about them in a general sense simply reinforces the idea of "mako vs scanning".

the mako levels were simply there to be random exploration to make the game last longer than just the quest missions - that you could scan for minerals on them was a byproduct of the devs having to make those worlds slightly more interesting than "cut and paste firefight in an identical base". it certainly wasn't the main reason for them existing.

the mako levels have been replaced by something like 19+ N7 missions, which constitute the "exploration" in ME2, just minus the identikit planets, tiresome mountain crawling and 20 minutes trundling only to discover you can't open a locked ship / container because nobody has a high enough skill.

planet scanning in ME2 is just a semi convenient way to boost large amounts of minerals - to me its not even remotely connected to the mako levels and shouldn't be compared to them, unless we're saying the random mineral pickups on the mako levels were actually more interesting than the cut & paste firefights.

[Massadonious1]

The paths to the bases in the area were pretty straightforward, but a majority of the minerals, anomolies and whatnot were in pretty hard to reach places, or required you to drive halfway across the map to find a safe path to reach such things, which was equally as pointless.



Hopefully the Hammerhead will bring reasonable planet exploration back, but I'm not going to shed a single tear over the loss of the Mako. It couldn't of ended up in a more deserving spot at the Normandy Crash site.