17 réponses à ce sujet

[tr0nzor]

I hardly think ME2's character-development system is deep enough to even seriously consider the notion of "builds." Max out this ability or that one? Not really a lot of room for subclasses... 

[matt654321]

Considering that every single ability has two possible evolution options that completely changes how that power is utilized, everyone can pick one of twelve bonus talents (also each with two highly distinct evolutions), and that you get to pick one of three possible advanced weapons, I'd say that yes, there is plenty of wiggle room for builds. If you'd check out some of the build threads instead of blindly posting, you'd probably know that.

[FoFoZem]

I have to disagree. With the ability to max, at the very most, 5 abilities, and with different specializations for those abilities, one class can become one of hundreds of different classes.



The bonus talent and advanced weapon training also factor into how you "build" your class.



If your (reasonable) statement had any more merit, there wouldn't be over 1,000 posts in this forum

[gr00grams]

There is none if you want to max skills and actually use all your squad points.
There are about 3 point spread variations for all player class builds, and 2 or 3 for squad mate builds.

All others will result in not being able to spend all your talent points, which is a freaking MASSIVE design oversight.

Fix the skill point issue please Bioware. You do realize that giveing the player 52 points at 30 instead of 51 would alleviate at least half of these. It's simple mathematics, you know, like the damned geth legion said.

Gain 2 points till 21, 22 to 30 gain 1. 50-60% of build spare points reduced.

EDIT* I pretty much totally agree with the OP. The 'variations' you all claim are for the most worthless. There are two; AoE and 'heavy'. Heavy wins 99% of the time.

From that, if you want to use all your points, you will end up in one of about 3 point spread variations. Mark my freaking words. If you have points left over, then yeah, you might have gone off a bit, but in the end it's also a lesser 'build'.

Modifié par gr00grams, 08 février 2010 - 04:23 .

[FoFoZem]

It's based on play style. If heavy wins 99% of the time for you, congratulations. But for those of us who prefer tactical development--balancing AoE and Heavy to create a class that is easier for YOU to play--based on how you play the game, then ME2 is very much "build"able. The fact of the matter is, based on the derivative definition of "builds" then any game with skill points is buildable.



I agree on the extra point thing though

[tr0nzor]

gr00grams wrote...

There is none if you want to max skills and actually use all your squad points.
There are about 3 point spread variations for all player class builds, and 2 or 3 for squad mate builds.

All others will result in not being able to spend all your talent points, which is a freaking MASSIVE design oversight.

Fix the skill point issue please Bioware. You do realize that giveing the player 52 points at 30 instead of 51 would alleviate at least half of these. It's simple mathematics, you know, like the damned geth legion said.

Gain 2 points till 21, 22 to 30 gain 1. 50-60% of build spare points reduced.

EDIT* I pretty much totally agree with the OP. The 'variations' you all claim are for the most worthless. There are two; AoE and 'heavy'. Heavy wins 99% of the time.

From that, if you want to use all your points, you will end up in one of about 3 point spread variations. Mark my freaking words. If you have points left over, then yeah, you might have gone off a bit, but in the end it's also a lesser 'build'.

THANK YOU
All the power evolutions are the same, either increasing the radius or potency of the effect. And you can only max out a few powers. The differences between "defensive" and "offensive" skills are literally 5 or so % in damage/health or damage/radius. Giving them truly unique effects would give the character-building more weight.

The loyalty power + additional weapon skill do add depth, but not that much, considering none of the special abilities are particularly useful, aside from maybe barrier.

[gr00grams]

Once you play on insanity pretty much only, you realize the AoE powers become obsolete.

It's like reaper mentality really.



Using adept as example;



Unstable warp is inferior to heavy warp.

Wide singularity is inferior to heavy, once you realize that singularity can hold anything regardless of defenses (except YMIR mechs and collosus) that duration number of held > AoE. Chain paralyzing a harbinger on insanity is vastly superior than catching it's buddy in the AoE too.



etc. You see this come into play a lot more on higher difficulties, where AoE doesn't happen (for the most) and the heavy mods will almost always win. On normal difficulties it's preference, but if you are a min/max'r like I, than you realize very quickly that heavy > AoE's, bigtime.

[stillnotking]

I have to agree that on Insanity there is usually an obvious "best" choice, both in talents to max and evolutions to pick. Bonus talents don't add that much diversity either, considering that three of them are essentially the same thing (Geth Shield/Barrier/Fortification) and do not stack with other defensive talents; Warp ammo and AP ammo are very similar, etc.

[gr00grams]

Thing is too though, once you 'learn' from insanity mode, and go back to lesser modes with other characters etc, this knowledge doesn't vanish.



Like heavy warp is so vastly superior to unstable warp at any difficutly. It's just that insanity mode makes this much, much more apparent.

[stillnotking]

Yeah, but some of the AOE talents are good on lower difficulties. Throw Field, Area Slam etc. are fun when most enemies don't have armor or shields.

[gr00grams]

I realize they are fun.

That doesn't change that they are inferior.



I don't want that to sound like I am some stuck up ****, it's just truth. The AoE mods for the most, in almost all scenarios are inferior.



I tried them all, as I too thought they would be better in some ways, etc, but they just aren't. From finding that, I won't lie about it either. They just are.

[DragoonKain3]

Tried Area Reave gr00grams? I personally like it more than Heavy Reave on Adepts already packing Heavy Warp, since having both Heavy is mostly redundant. Getting Area Reave gives you an AoE damage power that also has limited CC on top of it, as it staggers those affected. Catching even as little as 2 enemies would out DPS any combination of viable powers/gunplay for the Adept over the course of Reave's cooldown.



Sure most people like Warp Ammo for offense (particularly during Singularity chain stuns) or Barrier for Defense, but I like a mixture of both. Being able to heal has its uses, at least for my playstyle.





As a fellow min-maxer though, I have a question. I'm nearing the choice for my weapon training, and having only played adept, I can't figure out to go either Assault Rifle or Sniper Rifle. Any thoughts on this matter?

[Elen]

I basically never see enemies bunching up close enough to make any use for area reave or other AOE powers, though I have to admit that I'm not a huge fan of reave in any case. Warp ammo seems to work a lot better for me on Insanity.

Modifié par Elen, 08 février 2010 - 07:42 .

[DragoonKain3]

If people can hit multiple targets with Heavy Singularity (to the point that sometimes even reaching the target cap limit), hitting multiple targets with Area Reave is a piece of cake, considering it has almost twice the radius.

[SmilingMirror]

Most people tell me unstable warp is better than warp....i'm shocked that you guys like heavy stuff too.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 08 février 2010 - 09:59 .

[RiouHotaru]

I often think the AoE variations are underrated. For example, I find that while yes, Heavy Incinerate has superior damage, when I get towards the end of the game, Incinerate Blast (AoE) works better, especially since Husks and Collectors usually wind up grouped close together a lot.



Also, Wide Concussive Shot vs. Heavy Concussive Shot, I prefer Wide.

[Erakleitos]

Agree with OP, unless you really can't play a videogame or you're brainless, you don't really need to discuss any build. Oh wait...

[gr00grams]

As a fellow min-maxer though, I have a question. I'm nearing the choice for my weapon training, and having only played adept, I can't figure out to go either Assault Rifle or Sniper Rifle. Any thoughts on this matter?

I went with assault rifles with my adept for one reason; Shield removal.
The geth pulse rifle strips shields at an insane rate.

I realize snipers are more damage, but on end of insanty I was extremely glad with my choice.

Also for adept, make sure to give your squadies all the team ammos, and then you don't need to take warp ammo as a bonus. Simply use the best ammo (from a squadie) for the map.

Any mechs? use Zaeed, armor? Garrus, bring Jack with you on the final run for harbingers with warp ammo etc. This allowed me to keep Barrier for an 'oh ****' button, which you will need in insanity. It kept me alive through many many scenarios where otherwise I'd be dead.

Main reason I say heavies > areas is that in insanity aside husks you will most likely tango one baddie at a time... so you don't get killed. Even singularity at most (in all parts I can think of) was ever only holding about 3 or 4 enemies (husks), it can hold 6, but there was never a mob large enough etc.

The way the baddies use cover etc, it is almost always a single entity you are aiming at.

EDIT* While I don't think there is much variation in builds at all, I think it should be noted like ME1 the classes to play very differently. That is at least a major positive. Just that they will all be almost identical.

Modifié par gr00grams, 08 février 2010 - 04:47 .