126 réponses à ce sujet

[Killian Kalthorne]

yuncas wrote...

So is the only thing going on here an argument about definitions?

Definitions are paramount to a linguist, buddy. 

Modifié par Killian Kalthorne, 08 février 2010 - 10:58 .

[JaegerBane]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

No it is not. Action RPG is a subgenre of the CRPG. RPS is a subgenre of shooters, may they be first person or third person.

I'm glad we have such knowledgeable sages to tell us poor peons of the true path.

Look, to put it bluntly, you have your opinion, fine. Stop trying to claim that there's some sort of overarching authority where Lord British has come down and decreed what is an RPG and what isn't.

It doesn't appear to have registered with you that the difference between an action RPG and a role playing shooter comes down to little more than marketing. What do you do in either? Play a character, improve him along the lines you wish, equip him with what you wish and use developed skills and acquired loot to kill things and go on adventure.

Anything beyond that is how you to choose to see it, but don't be so outrageously arrogant to try and press your opinion on someone else.

[yuncas]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

yuncas wrote...

So is the only thing going on here an argument about definitions?

Definitions are paramount to a linguistic, buddy. 

Que?

[Killian Kalthorne]

JaegerBane wrote...
Anything beyond that is how you to choose to see it, but don't be so outrageously arrogant to try and press your opinion on someone else.

So it is okay for others to press their opinion on me but lo and behold it is wrong for me to press back!

[Killian Kalthorne]

yuncas wrote...

Que?

BUTTER! 

[BanditGR]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Inventory? what inventory guys theres nothing now {smilie}

We cant even sell stuff or trade materials from boring scans {smilie}

A inventory is just a list of goods and materials. The armor customization and upgrade screens are inventories. Hell, the weapon selection screen is an inventory as well.

Dumbed down inventories, an inventory is a list of goods i can manage, sell, restock, an so on. In ME2 you just choose what you want to equip, that´s it.. you can´t sell anything either, the equipment does not scale ever, going a bit further the equipment has no stats, just that little boost to shield or some other ability, really.. how can you guys call yourselves rpg fans if things like this are nothing to you, an rpg isn´t just this but if customization is out the window then i can´t call ME2 an rpg.

Nope, an inventory is just a list. Nothing more, nothing less. The selling aspect isn't part of it. All these extra things you mention have nothing to do with RPGs. You can customize in ME 2.

Sorry but you are delusional or have never played a game with proper inventory management and UI. An inventory is way more than just a "list", especially in RPG's and customization goes way beyond changing a color in certains parts of a uniform. That's just laughable and an illusion of customization. An inventory in any decent RPG allows you to make informed decisions, based not only on looks but also uniform statistics, bonuses and gains. The various body parts mods in ME2 are pitiful in terms of bonuses. They are no way needed for anything other than maybe (just maybe) insanity. There is no decision between 3% weapon damage and 5% health, there really aren't that many armor parts to make a significant difference that will be "felt" gameplay wise. And I'm not talking about feeling pr0 and great and mighty. Far from it. Can't you really see the joke ? I've completed 4 playthroughs wearing the exactly same set of N7 armor, with the exact same "mods", simply because wearing anything else not only "sucked" in terms of stats but considering the helm toggle oversight, was simply immersion breaking.

People that bash on the inventory system of ME1 have valid arguments. Yes, it sucked that you had 150 weapons, mods, armor etc and you couldn't even freaking sort them, the way you wanted to. BUT this was a UI issue, basically a design flaw. The fact that weapons other than the Spectre ones didn't matter after a certain point, was another design flaw,in terms of gameplay balance. What people though, don't seem to be able to comprehend is that completely removing the inventory was not needed to "fix" these flaws. It was mostly a change for the sake of streamlining everything into a fixed set of "choices". Well, yeah obviously you do not need an inventory, since you will only have 2-3 weapons of each "basic" kind and 5-6 heavy weapons. Obviously you don't need an inventory since you are only allowed to "customize" on your ship. Obviously you don't need an inventory since you can customize your squad's armor by changing their...uniform texture, after your gain their loyalty. Last but not least, why the hell do you need an inventory when weapon stats are not even shown anywhere (except datamining them through the .ini files).

Don't get me wrong. ME2 is a good game, but as has been mentioned, it could have been an AMAZING game, if more attention had been payed into such details. Not for the sake of calling it a pure "RPG" (which it isn't, never was and never will be and that's not bad if you enjoy the game for what it is). Frak that. But for the sake of actually presenting people with choices and meaningful customization (in a way that does not break immersion). More choices in any field is always a good thing. Like I said, I just wish that Bioware could find some middle ground in certains features and not just move from one "broken" system to a different one, equally as "broken" or simplistic.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

No it is not. Action RPG is a subgenre of the CRPG. RPS is a subgenre of shooters, may they be first person or third person.

Research Video Game Taxonomy. Genres are a graph and not a tree. If you don't know what I mean then figure it out on your own.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Right on, Bandito!

[JaegerBane]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Anything beyond that is how you to choose to see it, but don't be so outrageously arrogant to try and press your opinion on someone else.

So it is okay for others to press their opinion on me but lo and behold it is wrong for me to press back!

Those aren't their opinions, per se. All they're doing is pointing out that role playing games are about role playing. They aren't the ones pulling a rack of extra criteria out of thin air.

[Killian Kalthorne]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

No it is not. Action RPG is a subgenre of the CRPG. RPS is a subgenre of shooters, may they be first person or third person.

Research Video Game Taxonomy. Genres are a graph and not a tree. If you don't know what I mean then figure it out on your own.

As one who has studied varying genres in literature and media, you can use either a graph or tree.  I prefer the tree methodology because I like being woodsy.

[nicodeemus327]

BanditGR wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Inventory? what inventory guys theres nothing now {smilie}

We cant even sell stuff or trade materials from boring scans {smilie}

A inventory is just a list of goods and materials. The armor customization and upgrade screens are inventories. Hell, the weapon selection screen is an inventory as well.

Dumbed down inventories, an inventory is a list of goods i can manage, sell, restock, an so on. In ME2 you just choose what you want to equip, that´s it.. you can´t sell anything either, the equipment does not scale ever, going a bit further the equipment has no stats, just that little boost to shield or some other ability, really.. how can you guys call yourselves rpg fans if things like this are nothing to you, an rpg isn´t just this but if customization is out the window then i can´t call ME2 an rpg.

Nope, an inventory is just a list. Nothing more, nothing less. The selling aspect isn't part of it. All these extra things you mention have nothing to do with RPGs. You can customize in ME 2.

Sorry but you are delusional or have never played a game with proper inventory management and UI. An inventory is way more than just a "list", especially in RPG's and customization goes way beyond changing a color in certains parts of a uniform.

Use a dictionary. An inventory is just a list. Just becasue you can't sell stuff from your inventory doesn't it non- existant.

[Killian Kalthorne]

JaegerBane wrote...
Those aren't their opinions, per se. All they're doing is pointing out that role playing games are about role playing. They aren't the ones pulling a rack of extra criteria out of thin air.

I have been playing role playing games since the days when DnD White Box was in its first printing.  I am not pulling extra criteria out of thin air.  I am pulling them out of decades of role playing experience, both as a player and game master.

[OnizukaBlues]

I loved ME1's inventory, armor and weapons alot more than ME2's but both are great in the end. I just loved abusing the heat reduction ammo types in ME1 where I basically never overheated my assault rifle, simple shooting non stop, and relatively easy on insanity mode too because of it.



ME2 levels the playing by ALOT, but I don't fancy the thermal clips though >.>

[yuncas]

Well put Bandit.

[Killian Kalthorne]

nicodeemus327 wrote...
Use a dictionary. An inventory is just a list. Just becasue you can't sell stuff from your inventory doesn't it non- existant.

So, where is the armor for my squad in this inventory list then?

[Frotality]

i love how the webster definition of inventory is they key point to argue now...

ah, internet forums, how you love to stray from the point of a thread....

[nicodeemus327]

JaegerBane wrote...

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Anything beyond that is how you to choose to see it, but don't be so outrageously arrogant to try and press your opinion on someone else.

So it is okay for others to press their opinion on me but lo and behold it is wrong for me to press back!

Those aren't their opinions, per se. All they're doing is pointing out that role playing games are about role playing. They aren't the ones pulling a rack of extra criteria out of thin air.

I think that was my major point. ME 2 is still very much an RPG despite what people like an inventory should be/do.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...
Use a dictionary. An inventory is just a list. Just becasue you can't sell stuff from your inventory doesn't it non- existant.

So, where is the armor for my squad in this inventory list then?

Stop being as ass.

[Killian Kalthorne]

If you take one major aspect out of a RPG then it stops being a RPG.

[Killian Kalthorne]

nicodeemus327 wrote...
Stop being as ass.

Stop being obtuse.

[nicodeemus327]

Frotality wrote...

i love how the webster definition of inventory is they key point to argue now...

ah, internet forums, how you love to stray from the point of a thread....

I'm arguing sematics to prove a point and get information out of people. Player aren't upset they don't have an inventory. They are upset because you can't customize squad member's armor and cannot sell stuff from thier inventroy.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...
Stop being as ass.

Stop being obtuse.

You're supposed to type "PERIOD". You ruined the cycle.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

If you take one major aspect out of a RPG then it stops being a RPG.

Like I posted before. Not true at all.

[BanditGR]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

BanditGR wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Inventory? what inventory guys theres nothing now {smilie}

We cant even sell stuff or trade materials from boring scans {smilie}

A inventory is just a list of goods and materials. The armor customization and upgrade screens are inventories. Hell, the weapon selection screen is an inventory as well.

Dumbed down inventories, an inventory is a list of goods i can manage, sell, restock, an so on. In ME2 you just choose what you want to equip, that´s it.. you can´t sell anything either, the equipment does not scale ever, going a bit further the equipment has no stats, just that little boost to shield or some other ability, really.. how can you guys call yourselves rpg fans if things like this are nothing to you, an rpg isn´t just this but if customization is out the window then i can´t call ME2 an rpg.

Nope, an inventory is just a list. Nothing more, nothing less. The selling aspect isn't part of it. All these extra things you mention have nothing to do with RPGs. You can customize in ME 2.

Sorry but you are delusional or have never played a game with proper inventory management and UI. An inventory is way more than just a "list", especially in RPG's and customization goes way beyond changing a color in certains parts of a uniform.

Use a dictionary. An inventory is just a list. Just becasue you can't sell stuff from your inventory doesn't it non- existant.

I love it how you conveniently ignore the essence of what I posted and insist on your own (narrowminded imho) view. I don't believe I even mentioned the word "sell" in my post. Anyway, one trying to present his PoV on this particular issue (and not only), on this forum is a lesson in futility, assuming you want to criticize (even if you are trying to be constructive and not condensending).

Modifié par BanditGR, 08 février 2010 - 11:14 .

[Frotality]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Frotality wrote...

i love how the webster definition of inventory is they key point to argue now...

ah, internet forums, how you love to stray from the point of a thread....

I'm arguing sematics to prove a point and get information out of people. Player aren't upset they don't have an inventory. They are upset because you can't customize squad member's armor and cannot sell stuff from thier inventroy.

a valid goal, i see YOUR point at least. and agreed, lack of customization is my issue, not the means usually used to convey it.