126 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Those aren't their opinions, per se. All they're doing is pointing out that role playing games are about role playing. They aren't the ones pulling a rack of extra criteria out of thin air.

I have been playing role playing games since the days when DnD White Box was in its first printing.  I am not pulling extra criteria out of thin air.  I am pulling them out of decades of role playing experience, both as a player and game master.

Yes, yes, I'm sure you've played RPGs since the dark ages and this somehow means you get to decide what an RPG is, save it Killian. We've heard all this 'I've got an RPG player badge' rubbish before.

cRPGs have not remained static. There is not one 'system' they follow. The only unifying fatctor in them is the simple fact that the player chooses to build and equip his character to his preferred specifications. That's it.

PnP based RPGs have no more affect on what defines a cRPG than Chess and Risk have on RTS. They share a root of development but they clearly aren't the same things.

*Nowhere* is there some bible of what is and what isn't an RPG. Stop pretending that there is.

[nicodeemus327]

Frotality wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Frotality wrote...

i love how the webster definition of inventory is they key point to argue now...

ah, internet forums, how you love to stray from the point of a thread....

I'm arguing sematics to prove a point and get information out of people. Player aren't upset they don't have an inventory. They are upset because you can't customize squad member's armor and cannot sell stuff from thier inventroy.

a valid goal, i see YOUR point at least. and agreed, lack of customization is my issue, not the means usually used to convey it.

Especially with squadmates. Also not being able to sell armor and upgrades. Saying that is completly different then saying "gimme my inventory back".

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 08 février 2010 - 11:24 .

[Permutation]

Sorry, but I liked being able to access and equip my gear anytime or anywhere I please. I also liked modular and customizeable modifications over static "upgrades". The new system is a tactical disadvantage with little functionality, and feels rather forced-upon for a game that is supposed to be about choice.

[Killian Kalthorne]

JaegerBane wrote...
*Nowhere* is there some bible of what is and what isn't an RPG. Stop pretending that there is.

Maybe not a bible, but I do have a set of scrolls somewhere in my attic.  

[nicodeemus327]

Permutation wrote...

Sorry, but I liked being able to access and equip my gear anytime or anywhere I please. I also liked modular and customizeable modifications over static "upgrades". The new system is a tactical disadvantage with little functionality, and feels rather forced-upon for a game that is supposed to be about choice.

The only reason they are static is because you can't sell them. They could have given you one piece of armor or a different weapon for each upgrade level and this would have behaved just like a tradiational system.

[Permutation]

You're wrong. The weapon/armor modifications in ME1 were modular. Players could mix and match different modifications with different attributes for different results. This is not the case in ME2, and in no way do they or could they behave like the system in ME1. They're static, whether a player can sell them or not. The thing that is even more irritating is that they call it a "Research Terminal" when there is nothing left for the player to research or decide on their own. It's all left to the game. Miscellaneous upgrade 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, and so on. Just purchase the next upgrade. No choice involved.

Modifié par Permutation, 08 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[Bratinov]

The game was dumbed down, thats all there is to it.
I wouldn't have bought it if it wasn't for the story.
If I wanted a Chest-High Walls shooter thing i would get Gears of War (which i dont like).

Modifié par Bratinov, 08 février 2010 - 11:41 .

[nicodeemus327]

Permutation wrote...

You're wrong. The weapon/armor modifications in ME1 were modular. Players could mix and match different modifications with different attributes for different results. This is not the case in ME2, and in no way do they or could they behave like the system in ME1. They're static, whether a player can sell them or not. The thing that is even more irritating is that they call it a "Research Terminal" when there is nothing left for the player to research or decide on their own. It's all left to the game. Miscellaneous upgrade 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, and so on. Just purchase the next upgrade. No choice involved.

How is that so different from the old system? You just upgrade to the next armor or weapon or whatever has slightly better stats. The modular aspect is still there for shepard with armor upgrade / customizations. I will agree it should have been expanded to the entire squad.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 08 février 2010 - 11:48 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

JaegerBane wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Darth Obvious wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

how can you guys call yourselves rpg fans if things like this are nothing to you, an rpg isn´t just this but if customization is out the window then i can´t call ME2 an rpg.

Wow, then I guess our pen-and-paper Star Wars SAGA game is not an RPG, according to your narrow-minded definition. We would never dream of using some stupid inventory system, carrying around tons of loot and spending time checking every dead body for even more junk. Our guys carry lightsabers, that's it.

The fact is that ME2 is definitely an RPG, whether you are mature enough to admit it or not.

I said an rpg isn´t just about this, you are the one narrow minded so go wave your maturity somewhere else.

Actually you said in plain english that if customisation goes out the window you can't call ME2 an RPG. There isn't really a hell of a lot of room for misunderstanding there.

Personally I can't figure out why you think customisation has been thrown out the window - I know it hasn't with what's installed on my system, anyway, as my Shep's armour has been custom designed for surivivability and weapon damage, his skillset emphasises biotics over conventional combat (hence the suit set up) and his personal arsenal is intended to provide a balanced selection of hardware to allow him to attack target at any range. This setup was all my choice.

Check the bold outline,that´s what i meant, and customization IS MINIMUM, you can´t deny that, the only improvement i see is changing color and even that only works for the N7 armor, changing parts for different stats sucks because i hate most of the looks in the new parts, if mods were in the game like it should, then i could choose which armor to use and apply those mods to it, That´s customization! what choice do i have besides one pair of gauntlets if i want extra damage? no choice, you get that and nothing more.

Everyone has its own opinion on the matter, i respect that, and i hope you do too.

[nicodeemus327]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Check the bold outline,that´s what i meant, and customization IS MINIMUM, you can´t deny that, the only improvement i see is changing color and even that only works for the N7 armor, changing parts for different stats sucks because i hate most of the looks in the new parts, if mods were in the game like it should, then i could choose which armor to use and apply those mods to it, That´s customization! what choice do i have besides one pair of gauntlets if i want extra damage? no choice, you get that and nothing more.

Everyone has its own opinion on the matter, i respect that, and i hope you do too.

You have the same option for shepard in me2. The armor cusotmization is like the armor modules in me1. Want more shields? You got it. More ammo? Sure. You can also choose between increasing your run speed and shield regen speed. In the old system you would buy (or find) a new piece of armor and discard the old because they don't stack. The in new system you would buy (or find) a new upgrade and keep the old because they do stack. The choices are mostly the same at least for good ol' shep.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 12:20 .

[Permutation]

It's different because players had a choice to upgrade different functions for different results. Just like in KotOR, how players could construct a lightsaber to their own specifications from different components. You could put any of them together for the configuration that best suits your wants/needs. There was a ton to choose from. Generic "one fits all" damage upgrades is not in the spirit of RPGs. Sh**, even Modern Warfare 2 allows for more gear customization than ME2, and it's an FPS. Why is that?

[joejoe099]

i just like the fact i dont have to go through over 150 things to equip wat i want, now i just pick, done

[nicodeemus327]

Permutation wrote...

It's different because players had a choice to upgrade different functions for different results. Just like in KotOR, how players could construct a lightsaber to their own specifications from different components. You could put any of them together for the configuration that best suits your wants/needs. There was a ton to choose from. Generic "one fits all" damage upgrades is not in the spirit of RPGs. Sh**, even Modern Warfare 2 allows for more gear customization than ME2, and it's an FPS. Why is that?

You certainly have to choose different upgrades in ME 2. In fact those choices are more important since you can't upgrade everything. Also the armor customization (are people just missing this part?) for shepard offers about the same choices the old system did.

There is no more choice going from armor upgrade 2/5 to 3/5 in me 2 then there is going from armor with 120 shields to 130 shields (example numbers) in me1. All you do is choose which one is higher. That's it.

If you look closely at the me1 and me2 systems the two big differences are you can't customize squad mates (huge oversight imo) and you can't sell upgrades. That's it. Anything else is just bull.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 12:27 .

[MoonChildTheUnholy]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Check the bold outline,that´s what i meant, and customization IS MINIMUM, you can´t deny that, the only improvement i see is changing color and even that only works for the N7 armor, changing parts for different stats sucks because i hate most of the looks in the new parts, if mods were in the game like it should, then i could choose which armor to use and apply those mods to it, That´s customization! what choice do i have besides one pair of gauntlets if i want extra damage? no choice, you get that and nothing more.

Everyone has its own opinion on the matter, i respect that, and i hope you do too.

You have the same option for shepard in me2. The armor cusotmization is like the armor modules in me1. Want more shields? You got it. More ammo? Sure. You can also choose between increasing your run speed and shield regen speed. In the old system you would buy (or find) a new piece of armor and discard the old because they don't stack. The in new system you would buy (or find) a new upgrade and keep the old because they do stack. The choices are mostly the same at least for good ol' shep.

You´re not getting what i said, in ME2 if i want more shields as you say i am forced to go with a piece of specific armor which i may not like, if mods were included instead i could swap anything for what i want and still have the armor i want, isn´t it frustrating to have a cool helmet and the stats are not what you want? in ME1 this was much better, note that i don´t want the huge amount of loot! i want to customize and upgrade my own equipment as i see fit and not how the game forces me.

[gr00grams]

You certainly have to choose different upgrades in ME 2. In fact those choices are more important since you can't upgrade everything.

No, I got all upgrades on my first playthrough thanks. Everything was 5/5 etc. All ship upgrades, all model ships, all fish, you name it.



Every shop had nothing left to sell.



The armor customization is good, but it needs more.

Also, I want to see some numbers. I like stat comparisons.



That all said, I do like the new systems better, but only to certain points.

Like gun mods are now skills. That's bad.

No squad as you stated is not cool either.



Again though, you can get every upgrade for absolutely everything in 1 playtrhough quite easily in ME2.

[nicodeemus327]

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

nicodeemus327 wrote...

MoonChildTheUnholy wrote...

Check the bold outline,that´s what i meant, and customization IS MINIMUM, you can´t deny that, the only improvement i see is changing color and even that only works for the N7 armor, changing parts for different stats sucks because i hate most of the looks in the new parts, if mods were in the game like it should, then i could choose which armor to use and apply those mods to it, That´s customization! what choice do i have besides one pair of gauntlets if i want extra damage? no choice, you get that and nothing more.

Everyone has its own opinion on the matter, i respect that, and i hope you do too.

You have the same option for shepard in me2. The armor cusotmization is like the armor modules in me1. Want more shields? You got it. More ammo? Sure. You can also choose between increasing your run speed and shield regen speed. In the old system you would buy (or find) a new piece of armor and discard the old because they don't stack. The in new system you would buy (or find) a new upgrade and keep the old because they do stack. The choices are mostly the same at least for good ol' shep.

You´re not getting what i said, in ME2 if i want more shields as you say i am forced to go with a piece of specific armor which i may not like, if mods were included instead i could swap anything for what i want and still have the armor i want, isn´t it frustrating to have a cool helmet and the stats are not what you want? in ME1 this was much better, note that i don´t want the huge amount of loot! i want to customize and upgrade my own equipment as i see fit and not how the game forces me.

I see what you're saying now. Whatever. I had to wear so many ugly pieces of armor in ME1 (the pink phoenix series come to mind) that the new system feels much better. The choice of which armor to use is still the same. Use the one with a higher number.

[Permutation]

It's not the same. It's linear. No choice. The problem with a lot of RPG newbies is the unwillingness to manage an inventory and mod system that ultimately gives the game more depth of choice. But the sheep just can't be bothered with a thought, so it was removed for ME2.

Modifié par Permutation, 09 février 2010 - 12:39 .

[nicodeemus327]

Permutation wrote...

It's not the same. It's linear. No choice. The problem with a lot of RPG newbies is the unwillingness to manage an inventory and mod system that ultimately gives the game more depth of choice. But the sheep just can't be bothered with a thought, so it was removed for ME2.

The same is true for ME1 and 99% of the "traditional RPGs" out there. Here's the choice you make. Which one has a higher number? That's the one you go for. The depth of the mod system is achieved via the armor customization system (I really think you just missed this part) where you can do things like choose a greater ammo capacity, more shields or health, increase run speed or faster shield regen.

Modifié par nicodeemus327, 09 février 2010 - 12:48 .

[CMD-Shep]

I don't mind the the lack of the inventory system from ME1. However, I would have liked it if upgrades to your weapons would have manifested themselves as visible changes to the weapon itself (longer barrel, bigger scope ETC.). Also, I would have liked the ability to see DPS stats for each weapon.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Also the armor customization is severely limited that you can only customize Shepherd and none of your squad because none of your squad, except one, wears proper armor. The choice of armor is not the same. If it was I would be able to get some armor on the half naked chick or get Garrus armor that isn't falling apart.

[nicodeemus327]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Also the armor customization is severely limited that you can only customize Shepherd and none of your squad because none of your squad, except one, wears proper armor. The choice of armor is not the same. If it was I would be able to get some armor on the half naked chick or get Garrus armor that isn't falling apart.

I 100% agree with you on this one. I think that's the real failing of the system.

[Jaysonie]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

Also the armor customization is severely limited that you can only customize Shepherd and none of your squad because none of your squad, except one, wears proper armor. The choice of armor is not the same. If it was I would be able to get some armor on the half naked chick or get Garrus armor that isn't falling apart.

Is this such a huge issue with you, because youve been bringing it up quite abit. Besides, you can make the half naked chick wear a vest.

[Permutation]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Permutation wrote...

It's not the same. It's linear. No choice. The problem with a lot of RPG newbies is the unwillingness to manage an inventory and mod system that ultimately gives the game more depth of choice. But the sheep just can't be bothered with a thought, so it was removed for ME2.

The same is true for ME1 and 99% of the "traditional RPGs" out there.
Here's the choice you make. Which one has a higher number? That's the
one you go for. The depth of the mod system is achieved via the armor
customization system (I really think you just missed this part) where
you can do things like choose a greater ammo capacity, more shields or
health, increase run speed or faster shield regen.

The depth of the armor mods is an illusion. There are a total of two pieces in the entire game to be obtained for the legs, chest, shoulders and head. All of which are hideous with the exception of a few pieces. But at least now I can change the color of a very limited and fugly armor selection. F***ing lame.

Modifié par Permutation, 09 février 2010 - 12:55 .

[Killian Kalthorne]

It is a huge issue. It is the paramount of stupidity to wear broken armor to a firefight, and Garrus may be many things but he is not stupid.



As I stated before, I wanted an improvement over the inventory system from ME1, not have it removed. What Bioware did for weapons was an improvement. WHat they did for Shepherd's armor was an improvement. They just needed to set up that same system that Shepherd has for the entire squad.

[TobiasRieper]

I love how the lack of an inventory adds to the realism of the game.



I always hated the fact how characters would be carrying around 10 different armours and switching them while in the field.



The fact that things are custom made and fit on your spaceship, makes it more realistic, cause it has the space and facilities to do so.



Really liked it.



That said, there should be more options for weaponry, armour pieces and the like. Especially the weaponry, I would've preferred a couple of different weaponry with obvious drawbacks, pro's and con's, making it not just a matter of upgrading and using the newest one, but having you develop the weapons and choosing the things you need the most to fit your play style.



(the linearity of the upgrades was a bit of an disappointment, I would've loved to have more extensive weapon customization, you have an armoury after all (the armour was on the right way, just needs more options))