101 réponses à ce sujet

[Alexandus]

First and Foremost, I was extremely impressed with Tali's loyalty mission (and no, I'm not among the legions of rabid talimancers, no worries). Interesting dillemas, politics, and exceptional voice acting.

I was most impressed with most of the admiralty. The older female admiral's care for Tali was touching, the younger female was interesting in her unique viewpoint (wasnt pro or anti-war...just wanted to get the geth back under quarian control, haha), and I found myself for the first time agreeing with the voice of Tyern Loghain.

The admiral that gives me anger management problems is the self-righteous idiot that wears the pink quarian armor, the one that always votes against tali.

He strips Tali of her original ship name simply for a political advantage in the hearing, campaigns against tali the entire time, and has the gall to try to salve his own conscience by telling her that he's sorry and that it's nothing personal. Worse, his political views are idiotic at best, he seems to think that escaping and/or bowing to the geth is the best way to ensure his people's prosperity. History teaches that peace cannot be bought.

War with the geth will force the quarians to innovate and evolve to new heights. Nothing cultivates advancement like the passion and necessity spawned by conflict. Think back to Doctor Mordin's speech about limitations and stagnation, if you've heard it (the single wisest squadmate in ME2, imo).

Arighty, thats enough ranting for one post I think. In conclusion, I think it's tragic that you aren't given the opportunity to give the pink admiral a renegade interrupt of some kind . Thoughts?

[cepapoe]

I don't agree with what he is doing (and he does come across as an arrogant snob in the trial) but I can understand his position when it comes to the Quarian future. If the quarian did attack the geth the only thing they would achieve is their own destruction. My two cents.

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

My thoughts?

Simply that I disagree with your opinion of the geth and your cowboy summary of it "History teaches that peace cannot be bought."

It makes no sense to not go for peace when it is possible. Especially since the Geth would rip the Quarians into bits, the argument that war "improves" the Quarians defeats the purpose and proper motivation for war, survival. Only morons would want a war for the sake of "innovating technology".

The Geth handed them their asses before and will do it again.

Also why are you so sure that the pink Admiral was taking it personally rather than being against Tali and her father's research solely for political reasons?

Modifié par Mikazukinoyaiba2, 08 février 2010 - 06:15 .

[MasterMegatron]

There's always one idiot in a group. Thankfully it wasn't Admirals Loghain or Morrigan.

[Kordras]

While he is a bit of a ****, I agree that the Quarians should be pursuing a way to deal with the Geth that doesn't involve war. They're just not up to the task (even Kal'Reegar says so, and he's a badass ). But yea, I loved that whole mission, especially Simon Templeman's role (KAIN!).

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Furthermore you misunderstand his intentions, he doesn't want to "bow down" to the Geth, he just thinks the Quarians should give up trying to "take back the homeworld" and settle somewhere else and find their own new homeworld.



Not at all unreasonable, it isn't like the pure Geth are on a campaign to kill all Quarians, the Geth hasn't even pursued them beyond the Perseus Veil.

[The Capital Gaultier]

 The self-righteous one was the only admiral I did agree with.  Despite his (seeming, not real) dislike for Tali, he's quite a noble person.

Koris Vas Quib'Quib, I salute you!

Really, it's the other two who are unreasonable.  The war admiral wanting a full-scale war against an enemy he doesn't even understand and a psychopath trying to enslave a sapient race.

Modifié par The Capital Gaultier, 08 février 2010 - 06:20 .

[EG NeoMorph]

Did you see the email that annoying Admiral sent to the Normandy afterward... turns out he is going to carry on doing what Tali's father did (not saying anymore to avoid spoilers).



Oh and did anyone recognise that Teryn Loghain is now a Quarian Admiral... and a good one at that lol.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Alexandus wrote...

Worse, his political views are idiotic at best, he seems to think that escaping and/or bowing to the geth is the best way to ensure his people's prosperity. History teaches that peace cannot be bought.

Try talking to Legion before you dismiss the idea of peace with the geth as foolish. Peace cannot be bought, but perhaps it can be given. The quarians and the geth both must give something in order to balance the equation. 

War with the geth will force the quarians to innovate and evolve to new heights. Nothing cultivates advancement like the passion and necessity spawned by conflict. Think back to Doctor Mordin's speech about limitations and stagnation, if you've heard it (the single wisest squadmate in ME2, imo).

War with the geth will result in quarian extinction... Unless the geth intentionally restrain themselves. The geth industrial base and fleet craps all over what the quarians have; the geth are seriously considering building something on the scale of a dyson sphere,  and any race that can do that could pump out millions of warships if they wanted to. The quarian fleet is large, some fifty thousand vessels, but many of those are civilian ships filled with civilians and not suitable for warfare at all, and certainly not suitable for warfare against an enemy that is quite frankly superior when it comes to ship combat, like the geth. 

[Dark_Caduceus]

He was a little bit of a dick to you and Tali, but regardless he seems to have the best ideas regarding the quarian's long term survival at heart.

[Inverness Moon]

The quarians will get curb stomped if they go to war with the geth. I agree with Qwib Qwib guy about making peace.

[Riot Inducer]

Gotta disagree, yes he's a complete douche in the trial but he's honestly got the right idea with his pacifistic ideals. Legion has brought to light the fact that the ONLY geth that are actively hostile to organics are a sub-sect that is working for the reapers (and they are wiped out in Legion's loyalty mission).

Now given this knowledge (which you can actually throw at the admirals if you have Legion in your party) starting a war with the Geth is foolish at best, there IS a peaceful solution and this Admiral is the only one who feels it should be sought out to save both races untold destruction.

Even so if the Quarians did go to war they would be marching into the unknown, only stealth enabled ships (Normandy SR1 & 2) have been able to delve very far into Geth space without being discovered (usually by the Heretics who then destroy the scout). There is no telling how strong of a presence the Geth have on the Quarian homeworld or what advances they've made since they were last encountered.

No matter how you cut it the Quarians would lose a LOT of their people and given that the entirety of the Quarian population is in fact on the fleet they would have to be using to assault the Geth, the Quarians run a very real risk of becoming extinct.

Modifié par Riot Inducer, 08 février 2010 - 06:29 .

[Lucazius]

My first impression about Admiral Zaal'Koris (the guy in red armor) was also bad...



Anyway, by the end of Tali's loyalty mission I realized his view of the geth was very like mine, and I even give my support to him.



There's no way the Quarians can defeat the Geth in a war. Their number are too few, their resources are too scarce and I really doubt they can regain "control" of the Geth like one of the other admirals want... Even Sovereign wasn't able to "hack" the geth and bend them to it's will. The Heretics were following Sovereign because of it's promesse of power and they were only 5% of the total Geth.



The geth are only defending themselves, and do not wish to harm organics... but they are not naive, they know the whole galactic community are afraid of them and see them as a menace that should be destroyed, that's why they are isolationist... and Legion is the key, for peace or ultimate conflict.

[ilikeicehockey]

he;s not that self-righteous. Talk to him after the initial meeting and he shows his true side. However that could be a ruse to get you onto his side though but its different

[Inverness Moon]

Anytime the possible war between the geth and the quarians is mentioned I feel the need to make Geth Star jokes.

[sergio71785]

He was kinda an ass, though thanks to him Tali has basically moved into the Normandy.

[Tyreal42a]

Eh...I thought he was the most sensible of the 3. Using Tali's trial for political reasons is unkind, but the others are doing similar. He says sorry to Tali and says it's nothing personal, if you talk to him before the trial, but his view is basically to attempt peace and coexistence with the Geth. While space Loghain is gun-ho about it and wants to charge in screaming bloody murder and space Morrigan basically wants to enslave them and repeat the same mistake that got them to where they are now.



And yes, I know their names, but I will always call them 'Space Morrigan,' and 'Space Loghain'.

[Alexandus]

Mikazukinoyaiba2 wrote...

My thoughts?

Simply that I disagree with your opinion of the geth and your cowboy summary of it "History teaches that peace cannot be bought."

It makes no sense to not go for peace when it is possible. Especially since the Geth would rip the Quarians into bits, the argument that war "improves" the Quarians defeats the purpose and proper motivation for war, survival. Only morons would want a war for the sake of "innovating technology".

The Geth handed them their asses before and will do it again.

Also why are you so sure that the pink Admiral was taking it personally rather than being against Tali and her father's research solely for political reasons?

"Simply that I disagree with your opinion of the geth and your cowboy summary of it "History teaches that peace cannot be bought."" -Are you fond of the Geth then? I liked Legion, but looking at the matter from a Quarian standpoint, they deprived them of their homeworld, drove them into exile, and made their race a lowered mockery of what it once was. Space Gypsies, to put it bluntly.

"Only morons would want a war for the sake of "innovating technology"." Now now, I didn't say they should assault the geth simply for technology, did I? To humor you, technology IS extremely important. Improved tech saves and improves lives, directly or indirectly benefiting medical, agricultural, safety, or economic pursuits. But its far from the most important reason. As I mentioned above, being in essence Space Gypsies has been hard on their species. Their practice of pilgrimidge is directly because of their population exceeding the migrant fleet's ability to sustain it. They have become immuno-comprised because of their homeworld being wrested from them.

The Native Americans had a saying, "Seven Generations," meaning that in making decisions, consider the effects for your people in the long term. How will the Quarians benefit from taking back their homeworld?
-Re-adapting to pathogenic environments
-Ability to sustain larger population
-Mitigation of Galactic disapproval of the Quarian's mistake with the Geth. Think of it like how Tali took back her father's ship from the geth, showing her aptitude and willingness to correct her mistakes.
-Much easier resource gathering
-And much, much more.

Now, to address your point that the Geth would wipe the floor with the Quarians. If true that the Geth's strength greatly exceeds that of the Quarians, there are a number of things the Quarians can do to mitigate or reverse the situation. Firstly, the research that Admiral Morrigan advocates for, seizing control of geth, this path may bear fruit. Secondly, I think it wise for the Quarians to begin colonizing other worlds in preparation to taking back their homeworld, build up their strength.


Lastly, consider this: With the Reapers advancing on the Milky Way, the Quarian preparations for war would be most advantageous for them and the galaxy at large, no?

[Internet Kraken]

Quib Quib is the only one that uses his brain though. There's no way the Quarians could beat the Geth. As mentioned ealier, the Geth are building a structure on the scale of the dyson sphere. The Geth could wipe the floor with them. If a fleet of heretic warships, representing less than 5% of the Geth's military strength, threatened the Citadel then how can the Quarians hope to beat the entire army? And it's not like the Geth are hostile. Legion has made it clear that peace can be achieved. The Quarians just refuse to see this.

This is why I dislike Tali. She's so consumed by her desire to get back on the homeworld that she doesn't realize the horrors the war will inflict upon both the Geth and Quarians. She is being selfish.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 08 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[Riot Inducer]

Tyreal42a wrote...
And yes, I know their names, but I will always call them 'Space Morrigan,' and 'Space Loghain'.

Ha! That's exactly what I thought when I talked to them, first thing when the trial started I was like, "Holy ****! It's Loghain! ...In space!"

[Ecael]

Admiral Koris vas Qwib'Qwib is Space Avernus.

[Tyreal42a]

Internet Kraken wrote...

Quib Quib is the only one that uses his brain though. There's no way the Quarians could beat the Geth. As mentioned ealier, the Geth are building a structure on the scale of the dyson sphere. The Geth could wipe the floor with them. If a fleet of heretic warships, representing less than 5% of the Geth's military strength, threatened the Citadel then how can the Quarians hope to beat the entire army? And it's not like the Geth are hostile. Legion has made it clear that peace can be achieved. The Quarians just refuse to see this.

This is why I dislike Tali. She's so consumed by her desire to get back on the homeworld that she doesn't realize the horrors the war will inflict upon both the Geth and Quarians. She is being selfish.

The Quarians are pretty advanced themselves, have more knowledge of the Geth than anyone else and, despite not being in the best condition, have the largest fleet in the galaxy. In Citadel space, at least. I wouldn't be so quick to underestimate them. But yes, even if they could win, it would likely be too high a cost.

As for Tali, where did you get this opinion? Perhaps it depends upon your choices and conversation options, but in my game, she seemed rather anti-war against them. Sure, she has a few bitter outbursts, somewhat understandable given they were driven from their homeworld, but as much as she might want to return, she seems to realise war would be a terrible option and wants to pursue other methods/peace.

[Riot Inducer]

Alexandus wrote...

Now, to address your point that the Geth would wipe the floor with the Quarians. If true that the Geth's strength greatly exceeds that of the Quarians, there are a number of things the Quarians can do to mitigate or reverse the situation. Firstly, the research that Admiral Morrigan advocates for, seizing control of geth, this path may bear fruit. Secondly, I think it wise for the Quarians to begin colonizing other worlds in preparation to taking back their homeworld, build up their strength.


Lastly, consider this: With the Reapers advancing on the Milky Way, the Quarian preparations for war would be most advantageous for them and the galaxy at large, no?

Unless of course the Quarians go on their little D-Day re-enactment before the Reapers arrive or make their presence known, then we have two of the most powerful factions in the galaxy depleting their strength fighting each other whilst the Reapers either bide their time or sweep in and destroy both weakened factions.

And the Quarians ARE being selfish about the whole homeworld thing, yes it's a big deal to them but there are HUNDREDS of perfectly suitable planets they could colonize they've just been too stubborn to look (they've only even started considering the possibility of colonization two years ago). They're flying around playing Battlestar Galactica even though the Cylons aren't chasing them down to wipe them out.  

[Mikazukinoyaiba2]

Alexandus wrote...
"Simply that I disagree with your opinion of the geth and your cowboy summary of it "History teaches that peace cannot be bought."" -Are you fond of the Geth then? I liked Legion, but looking at the matter from a Quarian standpoint, they deprived them of their homeworld, drove them into exile, and made their race a lowered mockery of what it once was. Space Gypsies, to put it bluntly.

I can't look at the matter solely from the Quarian perspective. I can understand the symbolism of going back to your homeworld but I also can see the reason why they had to flee and why the Geth threw them out, given the circumstances that was the only option other than flat out wiping out all of the Quarians. 

The Geth fought for survival while the Quarians fought for genocide, sounds like the Geth had the better intention.

"Only morons would want a war for the sake of "innovating technology"." Now now, I didn't say they should assault the geth simply for technology, did I? To humor you, technology IS extremely important. Improved tech saves and improves lives, directly or indirectly benefiting medical, agricultural, safety, or economic pursuits. But its far from the most important reason. As I mentioned above, being in essence Space Gypsies has been hard on their species. Their practice of pilgrimidge is directly because of their population exceeding the migrant fleet's ability to sustain it. They have become immuno-comprised because of their homeworld being wrested from them.

The Native Americans had a saying, "Seven Generations," meaning that in making decisions, consider the effects for your people in the long term. How will the Quarians benefit from taking back their homeworld?
-Re-adapting to pathogenic environments
-Ability to sustain larger population
-Mitigation of Galactic disapproval of the Quarian's mistake with the Geth. Think of it like how Tali took back her father's ship from the geth, showing her aptitude and willingness to correct her mistakes.
-Much easier resource gathering
-And much, much more.

Which is why they should either colonize or admit they were wrong for trying to wipe out the Geth and try to coexist with them. The Geth are willing, the Quarians just have to get over themselves.

Now, to address your point that the Geth would wipe the floor with the Quarians. If true that the Geth's strength greatly exceeds that of the Quarians, there are a number of things the Quarians can do to mitigate or reverse the situation. Firstly, the research that Admiral Morrigan advocates for, seizing control of geth, this path may bear fruit. Secondly, I think it wise for the Quarians to begin colonizing other worlds in preparation to taking back their homeworld, build up their strength.

I can't support the re-enslavery of the Geth and building up their strength is what they have been doing so far, but the Geth population grows far faster than the Quarians.

Trying to "build up strength" through colonies is like trying to win a foot race by putting lightning stickers on your shoes.

Lastly, consider this: With the Reapers advancing on the Milky Way, the Quarian preparations for war would be most advantageous for them and the galaxy at large, no?

no