2583 réponses à ce sujet

[Keiser SZE]

mozez101 wrote...

I've noticed that some of the vanguard videos use the barrier bonus ability instead of reave or an ammo ability. Does barrier actually help?

Barrier helps you out in the event your Charge puts you out in the open of a gunfight. It's more or less just a bailout for when you screw up for not thinking your charge through. If you're tactically sound you shouldn't need it. Reave and AP would be better bonus talents if you know what you are doing.

Modifié par Keiser SZE, 12 février 2010 - 08:43 .

[rumination888]

sinosleep wrote...

Pointless? I've actually swapped back to incendiary ammo and when I post the vid I've got sitting at home you'll see why. Charging a group of 3 and setting all of them on fire while you kill the first is invaluable. Sure, they would all be dead in short order regardless, but the fact that they are too busy trying to stop drop and roll to shoot you is a great defense.

Pointless for their damage I should say. Squad Incendiary is really all I need and I can just get that from Grunt or Jacob.

RamsenC wrote...

I missed this earlier, but what is the
Claymore trick and how does that make it fire faster than an Evi? Also
how are ammo powers worthless, without inferno or AP getting through
armor is much harder.

Also did anyone watch my video? I made it for the 10 guys in this thread pretty much

I saw it. A bit too reckless

www.youtube.com/watch <--- Claymore Trick

[sinosleep]

RamsenC wrote...
I missed this earlier, but what is the Claymore trick and how does that make it fire faster than an Evi? Also how are ammo powers worthless, without inferno or AP getting through armor is much harder.

Also did anyone watch my video? I made it for the 10 guys in this thread pretty much

I tried to watch it earlier but it was still processing, its loading up now. As for the claymore, it's the melee mid-reload trick done to perfection here

[edit] ninja'd

Although I still won't be using the claymore, sniper is too useful to give up for enemies that can't be charged.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 février 2010 - 08:49 .

[_Dannok1234]

I'm astounded with the amount of time you can spend in the open without dying RamenC, video was fun

at work now so can't post as much.

[thisisme8]

Tons of cool videos on here today. I heard Average Gatsby mention this in his "Adepting through Insanity" video, but with one Scion directly behind the other, the one in the back won't fire off his Shockwave. Kronner did you notice that in your video?
Edit:  The reason I bring that up is because it makes taking 2 on at a time easily manageable as long as you can time your Charges to go through the Scion's Shockwave.

Also, RamsenC, you definitely close the gap there, eh? It's worth the effort for 1 shot kills with Evi. I like it.

I'm amazed even in my own Collector Ship runs that the times I fly through the platform parts it feels like it was easy, but the 10 other times it's like they're all over me. I think it's mostly the Scions throwing the Shockwaves from the other platforms.

Modifié par thisisme8, 12 février 2010 - 09:27 .

[Seblun]

Well I gotta say it, the M-27 Scimitar Assault Shotgun is my favorite Shotgun. I'm in love, I have completed 3-4 missions now with maybe only 2 deaths, 1 of which was when I charged into a crowd of maybe 5.



With all the other Shotguns (minus Claymore) the speed and low clips just aren't enough to clear out rooms quickly.



The problem (with me at least) was that IF I miss a shot from the Evi or Katana that's pretty much it, I'm dead. There's just no room for mistake with them.



Oh and I'm on the Xbox 360, if that changes anything...

[mundus66]

rumination888 wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Pointless? I've actually swapped back to incendiary ammo and when I post the vid I've got sitting at home you'll see why. Charging a group of 3 and setting all of them on fire while you kill the first is invaluable. Sure, they would all be dead in short order regardless, but the fact that they are too busy trying to stop drop and roll to shoot you is a great defense.

Pointless for their damage I should say. Squad Incendiary is really all I need and I can just get that from Grunt or Jacob.

RamsenC wrote...

I missed this earlier, but what is the
Claymore trick and how does that make it fire faster than an Evi? Also
how are ammo powers worthless, without inferno or AP getting through
armor is much harder.

Also did anyone watch my video? I made it for the 10 guys in this thread pretty much

I saw it. A bit too reckless

www.youtube.com/watch <--- Claymore Trick

Wow, this could make it the best weapon in the game seriously. Do you have to fire 5 shots before you can do this or does it work right away?

[sinosleep]

mundus66 wrote...
Wow, this could make it the best weapon in the game seriously. Do you have to fire 5 shots before you can do this or does it work right away?

You can do it all day. Only thing is 1.) you'd be giving up utility against enemies you can't charge against, and 2.) it's not something I think most could keep up in the heat of battle to be honest. I'd compare it to countering in Tekken (it's a fighting game series, and I've been a Tekken head since forever ago). I can counter at ALL DAY LONG against new to above average players, but when it comes to facing another high level player my counter rate drops dramatically and it just isn't even worth it to try unless they really telegraphed something and I know I've got all day to counter. I mean, once there's a mess of attacks coming your way, and you're desperately trying to get off your own against another very skilled played, all of a sudden something as simple as hitting back and two buttons isn't that simple any more. I think this reloading technique might be the same way. You can do it all day long while nothing's attacking you, but say you charge a group of 3 miss your first shot, aren't near cover, and notice there are more on the way? It'll prolly be a lot harder to time that melee shot then. Even if it seems as simple as simply waiting for the noise just before the spent clip is released.

Modifié par sinosleep, 12 février 2010 - 09:35 .

[thisisme8]

sinosleep wrote...

mundus66 wrote...
Wow, this could make it the best weapon in the game seriously. Do you have to fire 5 shots before you can do this or does it work right away?

You can do it all day. Only thing is 1.) you'd be giving up utility against enemies you can't charge against, and 2.) it's not something I think most could keep up in the heat of battle to be honest. I'd compare it to countering in Tekken (it's a fighting game series, and I've been a Tekken head since forever ago). I can counter at ALL DAY LONG against new to above average players, but when it comes to facing another high level player my counter rate drops dramatically and it just isn't even worth it to try unless they really telegraphed something and I know I've got all day to counter. I mean, once there's a mess of attacks coming your way, and you're desperately trying to get off your own against another very skilled played, all of a sudden something as simple as hitting back and two buttons isn't that simple any more. I think this reloading technique might be the same way. You can do it all day long while nothing's attacking you, but say you charge a group of 3 miss your first shot, aren't near cover, and notice there are more on the way? It'll prolly be a lot harder to time that melee shot then. Even if it seems as simple as simply waiting for the noise just before the spent clip is released.

I can barely remember to melee half the time, much less use my Shockwave and Pull (which I've had for about four missions now)...  so yeah, I see what you mean.

[DesolCobra]

I am currently trying to get through insanity using vanguard and I originally took AP ammo power but soon decided that it isn't worth it since incendiary ammo does the job well enough for me. Therefore I did advanced training and swapped to energy drain since I'm still at the beginning areas before Horizon. The mercs all got shields and I built Garrus wrong and didn't get overload for him (was thinking Miranda's overload is fine). What do you guys think about using energy drain at the beginning until you get shotgun shield penetrating upgrade? With Evi and incendiary / ap ammo, armor isn't an issue but shields are.

[gauntz]

Sorry to repeat what's been said before, but people seem to be disagreeing alot. I'm wondering what ammo power to use. Going to create a vanguard and play on insanity soon, did a trial run on Purgatory insanity today, wasn't that terribly hard really (though I died a lot before remembering that melee now has it's own key) and very exciting. Normally I would leave ammo powers to squad, but since I'm running with Samara and Miranda I'll have to do it myself. The idea I have of the different ammo types is:



Incendiary Ammo: Imbues your attacks with a powerful DoT which is highly effective against armor and health, and causes organics to stumble in fear when armor is stripped away. Also stops regen. Do the DoT stack if you shoot several times before the duration is over? Doesn't seem very good for vanguard since target often dies very quckly before the full potential has passed.



Cryo Ammo: Freezes targets when only health is left. Seems useless for the vanguard except for squad, since loads of targets die on the first hit to health anyways.



Armor Piercing Ammo: Equally powerful or more powerful than Incendiary, and works against the same types of defense, but delivers the bonus instantly rather than after a DoT. A decent, no-nonsense buff for a vanguard.



Shredder Ammo: Only works against health, but also gives the highest buff of any ammo power. Does it stop regen? Again, seems pretty useless against anything but vorcha and krogan, since most targets where health is a major defense are very squishy anyways.



Warp Ammo: Works against barriers, armor, health and targets affected by slam, pull and singularity, everything except shields, but also delivers the lowest buff of all. Seems the best along with AP.



Disruptor Ammo: Very strong against shields and mechs, but can't be gotten without Zaed so pretty situational.



In addition, I'm wondering how I should evolve my ammo if I get AP, Warp, Shredder or Incendiary. Samara and Miranda won't get anything since I won't invest in two ammo powers if I get Tungsten/Heavy Warp or Inferno for example, but will my own bonus outperform the boost Miranda and Samara would get from say squad AP instead of Tungsten? Also, I'm curious do Shredder, Warp and AP have any visible effect like the fire from Incendiary or the freeze from Cryo? I guess the bonus ammo powers are slightly reduced by the fact that picking them means no reave/barrier.

[Kronner]

gauntz wrote...

Sorry to repeat what's been said before, but people seem to be disagreeing alot. I'm wondering what ammo power to use. Going to create a vanguard and play on insanity soon, did a trial run on Purgatory insanity today, wasn't that terribly hard really (though I died a lot before remembering that melee now has it's own key) and very exciting. Normally I would leave ammo powers to squad, but since I'm running with Samara and Miranda I'll have to do it myself. The idea I have of the different ammo types is:

Incendiary Ammo: Imbues your attacks with a powerful DoT which is highly effective against armor and health, and causes organics to stumble in fear when armor is stripped away. Also stops regen. Do the DoT stack if you shoot several times before the duration is over? Doesn't seem very good for vanguard since target often dies very quckly before the full potential has passed.

...

I did some tests here:

Kronner wrote...

I decided to try both Claymore and Evi with Warp, Tungsten and Inferno
ammo each, against Collectors (Drone, Guardian, Assassin) on Horizon.
/I've
chosen this fight because I can just restart the mission with
differenent gun/change talents before going in without big time loss.

Neither
ammo is worth taking over Inferno imho. I do not think there will be
any difference with armored foes, since Inferno is supposed to give
bonus against it.

NG+, Insanity
level 30 Vanguard
2/5 Shotgun damage and +50% damage against shields
using Cerberus Assault Armor just for kicks

Evi and Tungsten:


Evi and Warp:


Evi and Inferno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6D73RnZEGw

Claymore and Tungsten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5WPg2s1cI8

Claymore and Warp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAsV75kZFDc

Claymore and Inferno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3ph7RgvX3c

And imho Inferno Ammo is the best. DoT does not matter, what matters is that organic foes panic and do not attack you when you set them on fire.
Damage difference between Warp/Tungsten/Inferno ammo is insignificant.

Modifié par Kronner, 12 février 2010 - 10:21 .

[rumination888]

The Claymore really is for experienced users only. I only pimp the Claymore on these forums because I understand how powerful it can be in the hands of a pro. Unless you do NG+(and I don't) and have been working the trick in your battles as much as possible, experience with the Claymore is pretty hard to come by.

I'm sure I can handle the Claymore better against the platform Collectors if i replayed that part(I tried to do it a couple times in the vid and failed horribly at it, hence why I said I was playing poorly).

Modifié par rumination888, 12 février 2010 - 10:32 .

[thisisme8]

DesolCobra wrote...

I am currently trying to get through insanity using vanguard and I originally took AP ammo power but soon decided that it isn't worth it since incendiary ammo does the job well enough for me. Therefore I did advanced training and swapped to energy drain since I'm still at the beginning areas before Horizon. The mercs all got shields and I built Garrus wrong and didn't get overload for him (was thinking Miranda's overload is fine). What do you guys think about using energy drain at the beginning until you get shotgun shield penetrating upgrade? With Evi and incendiary / ap ammo, armor isn't an issue but shields are.

Really, you'll only need to substitute Evi out for one mission, and that's Jack's recruitment mission.  If you go immediately to Mordin's right when you get the Normandy, Evi will work fine since no one in that mission has shields. Switch to the Katana and head to Jack's recruitment mission right after to pick up the 2/5 Shotgun damage which will unlock the +50% damage to shields for the shotgun.  Then you can go right back to Evi and never use the Katana again... if you are so inclined.

You won't see another shotgun upgrade until you unlock Tuchanka (1 in shop, 1 if you kill the Thresher Maw in Grunt's Loyalty mish), although you can pick up the Scim in Samara's recruitment mission.  The last upgrade is in the IFF mish.

You do want to head to Tuchanka as soon as it's open to pick up the 3rd upgrade because that will unlock the Double Clip Capacity upgrade for the shotty which is very handy.

[RamsenC]

rumination888 wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Pointless? I've actually swapped back to incendiary ammo and when I post the vid I've got sitting at home you'll see why. Charging a group of 3 and setting all of them on fire while you kill the first is invaluable. Sure, they would all be dead in short order regardless, but the fact that they are too busy trying to stop drop and roll to shoot you is a great defense.

Pointless for their damage I should say. Squad Incendiary is really all I need and I can just get that from Grunt or Jacob.

RamsenC wrote...

I missed this earlier, but what is the
Claymore trick and how does that make it fire faster than an Evi? Also
how are ammo powers worthless, without inferno or AP getting through
armor is much harder.

Also did anyone watch my video? I made it for the 10 guys in this thread pretty much

I saw it. A bit too reckless

www.youtube.com/watch <--- Claymore Trick

So all I have to do is reload-melee right after shooting and there no reload time? I need to try this. How hard is this to pull off? Not sure how I feel about exploiting this though, its practically cheating.

On a side note I do not play that reckless normally, usually use Tali's combat drone often just to be safe, it's just more entertaining that way. Also makes me wonder how people can complain about Vanguard on insanity, I'm playing like a maniac and surviving. If any other class can complete that part faster I'd like to see it.

Modifié par RamsenC, 12 février 2010 - 12:46 .

[_Dannok1234]

Finally! Spent an hour trying to duplicate your 3min run on those platforms Ramen, man there are so many things that can go wrong.. just a stray bullet or a glitched charge and it's all over. Letting that Harbinger spawn on the first platform seems to be a very good idea tho, gives you so much time for the Scion later. Thanks for sharing that, very nice way to speed through it once you know how.

Edit: If you want to play it safe and use 3:30-4mins, bring on the vindicator for the last platform with 4-5(forget how many). Makes it far less "luck/twich" based at least for me.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 12 février 2010 - 03:33 .

[ChaoticBroth]

Those platforms hate charge. I think that's the only part of the game (post Heavy Charge) that I actually just decided to sit behind cover and just attack enemies with other powers or my heavy pistol or something.

[_Dannok1234]

If you watch RamenC's video and do pretty much exactly like he does it's not bad at all. Except I'll generally play it safer on the last platform and take out a couple drones before I charge in, but thats due to lack of twitch skill on my part.

[RamsenC]

Yea I don't recommend doing the last part that way, probably would die if I tried it again, the earlier platforms are easy though. Charging at three guys and a harbinger isn't wise, I just wanted to see if I could do it. Normally I'd wait for the guys to space out a little and use a combat drone.

edit: i still have no idea how to do the Claymore trick. That video wasn't enough for me to figure it out on my own sadly.

Modifié par RamsenC, 12 février 2010 - 06:33 .

[_Dannok1234]

Just wish I had a save there with the Scimitar to compare to the Evi. Having used it against Harbingers I'm starting to wonder if I need to reconsider my shotgun choice.

Edit: found a save, yay! Turns out I found it even easier with the scimitar, phew

Modifié par Dannok1234, 12 février 2010 - 06:53 .

[rumination888]

RamsenC wrote...
So all I have to do is reload-melee right after shooting and there no reload time? I need to try this. How hard is this to pull off? Not sure how I feel about exploiting this though, its practically cheating.

On a side note I do not play that reckless normally, usually use Tali's combat drone often just to be safe, it's just more entertaining that way. Also makes me wonder how people can complain about Vanguard on insanity, I'm playing like a maniac and surviving. If any other class can complete that part faster I'd like to see it.

Its not an exploit, its intended to balance the Claymore. If the Claymore was incapable of it, then the Scimitar would just be the best choice for its ease of use and DPS(something that the ini file doesn't tell you is that any weapon with a refire rate over 0 is the rate when the fire button is held down. If you rapidly click the fire button, you'll shoot much faster, hence; Scimitar being the best DPS shotty if you don't use the Claymore correctly).

Christina Norman wrote...

One
advanced tip I can give for vanguard players is, you can cancel out of
a reload animation to melee an enemy and you will still reload as long
as you've completed 60% of the reload animation. It's tricky to master,
definitely for more twitchy players, but it really helps with the
claymore.

[Sarah Aran]

I finished my Hardcore run yesterday. In the end I picked up squad cryo ammo in time for the reaper IFF and was immediately impressed with just how much easier it made matters. Combined with the scimitar shotgun and incendiary ammo I was able to strip the armor on any husk in sight and my squadmates would more ore less reliably freeze it before it had a chance to do anything. Can't say if the same holds true on insanity, but I'm definitely a convert now. Having a vindicator for the suicide mission also made all the difference in the world, especially in the seeker swarm room. Turns out with the Zaaed DLC you can get a 6th upgrade for it and it did a very reliable job of melting habringer at range rather than having to rely on the SMG.

Edit: Felt cryo ammo needed expanding on a little more, the use of it compared to as some people argue, targets dying instanty in health comes from the option to just leave multiple targets alone, while still in health and know theat they're not going to haunt you any time soon, especialy husks. It freese the vanguard up to move some more around the room while still leaving something viable up to charge to if needed. Does it always work? No, but most of the time you will notice the difference. Is it worth it? Considering the points couldn't really be better spent elsewhere, definately. Far better investment than either shockwave or pull, and it helps SMG bearing squadmates shine.

Modifié par Sarah Aran, 12 février 2010 - 07:02 .

[RamsenC]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Just wish I had a save there with the Scimitar to compare to the Evi. Having used it against Harbingers I'm starting to wonder if I need to reconsider my shotgun choice.

Edit: found a save, yay! Turns out I found it even easier with the scimitar, phew

I wasn't recording sadly, but I just did that part with the Katana just as fast. I don't think your shotgun choice matters that much. Moving forward after charging so all your pellets hit is whats really important.

[mozez101]

I have read on gamefaqs that dominate is a great bonus skill and its even better than reave, because 1) its an insta-kill if an enemy only has health and 2) it provides a very good distraction. What do you guys think?

[Divine Flame]

mozez101 wrote...

I have read on gamefaqs that dominate is a great bonus skill and its even better than reave, because 1) its an insta-kill if an enemy only has health and 2) it provides a very good distraction. What do you guys think?

I've never used dominate but how would it be an instakill if it's supposed to posses an organic and put a barrier around em? Pardon my confusion.