2583 réponses à ce sujet

[Mordigan]

Dannok1234 wrote...

The difference in killing one enemy and going on to the next one with the scimitar is the same as for the Evi. Difference is that you take more shots. (so if you miss it's far far safer weapon).

Taking more shots = taking more time to kill an enemy, which means more exposure, which means higher chances of being shot by other enemies..

The Claymore is less forgiving if you miss of course, but it rewards the player if he shoots accurately by killing enemies faster.

If you have poor aim, then yes, the Scimitar will be better.

The Claymore is only better when you do the reload trick, if you do not, you'll kill more enemies faster with the Scimitar then with the claymore. (shooting next enemy at 1.2 seconds after first shot, rather then 2 seconds.)

From my experience, the Claymore is superior regardless of whether you use the reload trick or not. 

The Claymore's superior damage combined with better penetration on armor, the Scimitar just can't keep up with it..

I'll maintain that the Scimitar is the most forgiving and safest choice for insanity. The claymore only becomes better if your doing the trick every single time. Page 15 people.. page 15. Lots of good info.

Numbers be damned.  I've used them all, and unless my eyes deceived me, the Claymore kills enemies much faster than any other shotgun.

[smavrakis2]

I agree with the posters above me, no matter what the numbers say, the difference between the claymore and the other shoties is pretty big. I mean it's common with the claymore to charge 2 enemies, one-hit the first and doing the reload trick, one-hit the other too, all in a couple of seconds.



It's one hell of a shotgun.

[akseltestdrive4]

Is the claymore really that much better? I use the evi myself. Seems like I should go get it but I would lose my vindicator.



On my new adept run, I toss singularities and run up to the guy trying to melee the dude, it isn't working out too well yet lol.

[tirea_atreides]

^^ It was the same for me as well, on the Collectors Ship when I tried out all (except for Katana) shotguns. I didn't really use the reload trick on the Claymore and it was still the fastest run. Evi was second in terms of time needed to kill everyone, but somehow also made it almost impossible for me to survive at all (I think it's because with Scimitar I also strafe a lot and with Evi I cannot decide what to do). With Scimitar it wasn't difficult to kill everything but it was definitely the slowest to kill thus needing the most time to beat the level.

[thisisme8]

Ok, so check it out.



You first have to think of all the circumstances involved before you decide what the best shotgun is. Armor bonuses, Ammo bonuses, enemie types, whatever... those are less important than the major factor in deciding:



Play-style mixed with player skill.



Player skill, just a note, is not about being better. Just happens that amidst this shooter is an RPG, which attracts RPG players (myself included). Some RPG players aren't as well versed in shooter gameplay, so telling someone they need to get the Claymore, line up headshots every time right after a Charge, then shoot, is a little crazy. End side note.



So, Kronner can actually run around 1-shotting tons of enemies with the Claymore, which no other gun will do consistently. For him, my bet is, the Claymore is better.



Some people prefer the Scim because it's so forgiving and has more thermal clip capacity while still being lethal and fast. Also, easiest to FRAP with. I'm just saying....



Others prefer Evi since it inherently also damages armor, has more damage overall (vs. Katana), and Evi sounds better than Katana... which is a sword name and not a shotgun name...



So take all those things into account. The majority of us that have been in this thread for most of the 26 pages have agreed that while there are definite numbers qualifying each gun, the truth has more to do with your style and which gun is more comfortable.



The end.

[Kronner]

thisisme8 wrote...

Ok, so check it out.

You first have to think of all the circumstances involved before you decide what the best shotgun is. Armor bonuses, Ammo bonuses, enemie types, whatever... those are less important than the major factor in deciding:

Play-style mixed with player skill.

Player skill, just a note, is not about being better. Just happens that amidst this shooter is an RPG, which attracts RPG players (myself included). Some RPG players aren't as well versed in shooter gameplay, so telling someone they need to get the Claymore, line up headshots every time right after a Charge, then shoot, is a little crazy. End side note.

So, Kronner can actually run around 1-shotting tons of enemies with the Claymore, which no other gun will do consistently. For him, my bet is, the Claymore is better.

Some people prefer the Scim because it's so forgiving and has more thermal clip capacity while still being lethal and fast. Also, easiest to FRAP with. I'm just saying....

Others prefer Evi since it inherently also damages armor, has more damage overall (vs. Katana), and Evi sounds better than Katana... which is a sword name and not a shotgun name...

So take all those things into account. The majority of us that have been in this thread for most of the 26 pages have agreed that while there are definite numbers qualifying each gun, the truth has more to do with your style and which gun is more comfortable.

The end.

I agree. All shotguns are effective and good enough to beat Insanity, but objectively speaking properly used Claymore has no peer, I especially found Scimitar to be lacking in damage in my NG+ playthrough (until I got the upgrades, that is).
Not to mention you get to use krogan weapon
Though I do like Evi a lot, actually I love her so much I had to make new Vanguard with Assault Rifles and Evi 

Modifié par Kronner, 18 février 2010 - 02:52 .

[sinosleep]

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down. This vid is another one of the reasons I like the scimitar, it lets me get the sniper rifle. Also, youtube messed up in processing and some how looped the video. It's essentially over at 2:30, but the since it loops the video is 5 minutes long.

Modifié par sinosleep, 18 février 2010 - 03:03 .

[Kurupt87]

have found an alternative to vanguard! its no replacement, sure, but it is good fun.

drill charge in bioshock 2! c'mon, you know you wanna! its actually surprisingly similar, chill them then charge em and they shatter. aint as good as vanguard but its definite alternative for a day or 2, before serious charge withdrawel symptoms become apparant/overwheleming and you have to come back to ME2.

@sinosleep, man that squad power off/charge/overload combo abosolutely dicks on em, nice play, they didn't even got close to you. definitely gna have to start doing that, but damn my xbox controller and awkward button placements!

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down.

Nice one, anyone tried taking on those mechs the vanguard way (up close and personal)? What planet does this take place, I am gonna give it a try.

Kurupt87 wrote...

have found an alternative to vanguard! its no replacement, sure, but it is good fun.
drill
charge in bioshock 2! c'mon, you know you wanna! its actually
surprisingly similar, chill them then charge em and they shatter. aint
as good as vanguard but its definite alternative for a day or 2, before
serious charge withdrawel symptoms become apparant/overwheleming and
you have to come back to ME2.

haha, is it any good though? I found bioshock one pretty lame shooter and nothing more, not sure I am gonna give 50 bucks for the sequel..

Modifié par Kronner, 18 février 2010 - 03:26 .

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down.

Nice one, anyone tried taking on those mechs the vanguard way (up close and personal)? What planet does this take place, I am gonna give it a try.

In my experience it's doable if it's just one mech, but going up close and personal when there's two mechs around is brutal. It's the third mission in a 4 mission group that starts with N7 archeological dig site

[Kronner]

Thank you, if I have enough time today, I'll give it a try

[Hailcloud]

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down. This vid is another one of the reasons I like the scimitar, it lets me get the sniper rifle. Also, youtube messed up in processing and some how looped the video. It's essentially over at 2:30, but the since it loops the video is 5 minutes long.

Very nice indeed! Those YMIR mechs are tough man.

I have to ask you folks here on this board your opinions on shockwave/pull.  I know you all have discussed it a couple of times, but how often do you use, say, a Heavy Shockwave or a Pull Field?  Are they pretty situational uses?  I'd understand using a Shockwave against some baddies that are in tricky cover, but I could also see just charging in there and mowing them down.

I really think I'm overlooking something here...mostly situations where those things come in extra handy.  I saw you use that pull/warp explosion in your video there sino.  Wicked stuff.

Thanks for the help in advance, and also, apologies in advance.  I'm sure these have been discussed at length somewhere.  Any tips/info would be greatly appreciated.

[sinosleep]

Pull field has been growing on me due to the obscenely quick cool down. I think maxed as I have it in that video you can use it every 2 seconds. It's particularly effective against groups of husks since pull alone will kill them once stripped of their defenses. So say on the reaper IFF mission, it's very easy to just incineration blast with Mordin then pull field yourself and eliminate 3 husks in 3 seconds.

[Kronner]

IMHO:

Shockwave simply sucks and you need to put 3 points into that just to unlock pull.

Yeah, both look nice and all, but squad cryo ammo is even better CC since it does not consume your cooldown and it works non-stop for an entire mission.

[Kurupt87]

yeah, the trouble with bioshock is that it is just so damn easy. it is actually impossible not to complete the game becuase of the rez/ez mode chamber things. and 50 bucks, cheap, try eu prices, brand new in shops its 35-40 quid (bout 70-80 dollar boi), i got mine with a couple of discounts on it so wernt so bad. i just like the mix of shooting/magic (basically what the plasmid stuff is) that it gives you, unique in a fps. if you play it like you dont have the rez ability then it is actually a challenging game (ie reload if you get rezed), but with the mechanic there then its hard to go to the effort of reloading if you can just walk out of a booth with half health/evi and carry on kicking arse. also, you have the debatably fun/not-so-fun option to kill little girls :/ (although i still find it harder to kill the weighted companion cube from portal).

[_Dannok1234]

Kronner wrote...

I agree. All shotguns are effective and good enough to beat Insanity, but objectively speaking properly used Claymore has no peer, I especially found Scimitar to be lacking in damage in my NG+ playthrough (until I got the upgrades, that is).
Not to mention you get to use krogan weapon
Though I do like Evi a lot, actually I love her so much I had to make new Vanguard with Assault Rifles and Evi 

Just to point something out here. Against a target the Claymore can one-shot. You use 0.6 seconds to kill with the Scimitar and 0.3-0.5 with the Evi. Thats a great deal faster then you can actually reload the Claymore. I was just trying to point out to Mordgian(sp) and yourself, that it's a really tiny difference. When you factor in stuff like miss-timing the reload trick and/or missed shots.
You'll actually start killing your next enemy well over 1 second faster with the Scimitar then you do with the Claymore (for someone who can't/don't use the trick).

So my point was, that the Claymore is only superior to the other shotguns if you are able to do that trick every single time. Never miss a shot and even then the difference, is nowhere near as great as you seem to think it is.
Keep in mind you can fire one shot + melee very nearly instantly. Thats 162+125 with the Scimitar and 294+125 with the Evi. Which is higher then the 400.1 you get with the Claymore.

Hopefully you won't misunderstand my intention here, I'm just saying it's not a world of difference, and for a advice thread, I personally think it's a good idea to point out to folks that might be reading that the Claymore is only superior if you do the reload trick. If you don't you will do more damage in the same time frame with the other shotguns.(Talking about firing against more then one enemy obviously.)

[thisisme8]

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down. This vid is another one of the reasons I like the scimitar, it lets me get the sniper rifle. Also, youtube messed up in processing and some how looped the video. It's essentially over at 2:30, but the since it loops the video is 5 minutes long.

I commented on your vid.  Had me in suspense for a second there... :happy:

[Hailcloud]

sinosleep wrote...

Pull field has been growing on me due to the obscenely quick cool down. I think maxed as I have it in that video you can use it every 2 seconds. It's particularly effective against groups of husks since pull alone will kill them once stripped of their defenses. So say on the reaper IFF mission, it's very easy to just incineration blast with Mordin then pull field yourself and eliminate 3 husks in 3 seconds.

That is mighty convenient.  Looks like I'll have to experiment with it and see what's what with it.  You can also use Mordin's Incineration Blast and then do an Area Charge into the middle of the husks, killing them all instantly.  Pretty fun if you're ever giving Area Charge a go.  Hell, I'd say there are enough Husks on the IFF mission just to make a save beforehand, respec to Area Charge and give it a try.  Charging into those guys and making them explode in droves is glorious.

And to Kronner, I switched over to Thisisme's build on the starter page of this guy yesterday, and I have to say that squad cryo ammo is pretty cool.  I do really like that you don't have to worry about cooldowns and everything with it.

I appreciate the responses guys, I'm really just trying to get a lot of viewpoints/opinions as I go through Insanity on my Vanguard.  I feel like I may have to do another one just to get the full experience with all the possibilities with this class and all of these different talents you can choose from.

I must say though that I'm already starting to miss my Inferno Ammo.  I love that animation and the way it makes em squirm

Also, sino, your videos are making me want to give the scimitar a go =)

Modifié par Hailcloud, 18 février 2010 - 04:32 .

[amrose2]

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down. This vid is another one of the reasons I like the scimitar, it lets me get the sniper rifle. Also, youtube messed up in processing and some how looped the video. It's essentially over at 2:30, but the since it loops the video is 5 minutes long.

What triggers the Cain effect when the mech dies? I've had this happen to me randomly on missions and still can't figure out what happens to cause it - is it Heavy overload?

Modifié par amrose2, 18 février 2010 - 04:39 .

[thisisme8]

amrose2 wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the newest vid. 2 YMIR mechs and the blue suns go down. This vid is another one of the reasons I like the scimitar, it lets me get the sniper rifle. Also, youtube messed up in processing and some how looped the video. It's essentially over at 2:30, but the since it loops the video is 5 minutes long.

What triggers the Cain effect when the mech dies? I've had this happen to me randomly on missions and still can't figure out what happens to cause it - is it Heavy overload?

Kill it with a headshot.  Any weapon.

Edit:  A must if taking on two at a time.

Modifié par thisisme8, 18 février 2010 - 04:43 .

[Kronner]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

I agree. All shotguns are effective and good enough to beat Insanity, but objectively speaking properly used Claymore has no peer, I especially found Scimitar to be lacking in damage in my NG+ playthrough (until I got the upgrades, that is).
Not to mention you get to use krogan weapon
Though I do like Evi a lot, actually I love her so much I had to make new Vanguard with Assault Rifles and Evi 

Just to point something out here. Against a target the Claymore can one-shot. You use 0.6 seconds to kill with the Scimitar and 0.3-0.5 with the Evi. Thats a great deal faster then you can actually reload the Claymore. I was just trying to point out to Mordgian(sp) and yourself, that it's a really tiny difference. When you factor in stuff like miss-timing the reload trick and/or missed shots.
You'll actually start killing your next enemy well over 1 second faster with the Scimitar then you do with the Claymore (for someone who can't/don't use the trick).

So my point was, that the Claymore is only superior to the other shotguns if you are able to do that trick every single time. Never miss a shot and even then the difference, is nowhere near as great as you seem to think it is.
Keep in mind you can fire one shot + melee very nearly instantly. Thats 162+125 with the Scimitar and 294+125 with the Evi. Which is higher then the 400.1 you get with the Claymore.

Hopefully you won't misunderstand my intention here, I'm just saying it's not a world of difference, and for a advice thread, I personally think it's a good idea to point out to folks that might be reading that the Claymore is only superior if you do the reload trick. If you don't you will do more damage in the same time frame with the other shotguns.(Talking about firing against more then one enemy obviously.)

I disagree.
With Claymore you do 800 damage (I repeat it once again) not 400 with the first shot (you charge, move forward and shoot from melee range). There is absolutely no need for a melee attack since the guy you shot is dead. So you can take cover, wait until you can charge again and repeat.
I mean you assume the foes are in line or something, it takes a while before you turn to face them, aim and shoot, in that timeframe it does not matter that your Scimitar still has 5 shots available, Claymore will just reload while you do that /even more so when you use the reload melee trick/
The reload trick is also very easy to do, it took me a while but now I have no problems using it (just hold your mouse button and press F (melee) when you hear "the click" ).

I do not know exact numbers but anyways..just took them from here - social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/895465/1:

Claymore
time t = 0, first shot, 800dmg at least /no upgrades etc
time t = 1.25, 1600 dmg (assuming you get to melee range)
t = 2.5, 2400 dmg

Scimitar
time t = 0, 324+125 = 449
time t =  0.6, damage = 2*(449) = 898
t = 1.2, damage is 3*449 = 1347
..
t=2.4, damage is 5*449=2245

that is assuming you are non-stop firing and meleeing, which is obviously never gonna happen. If any number are wrong, I'd appreciate correction

[sinosleep]

The only problem with that is that often, those numbers are over kill. They only really help you when you're facing things with ridiculous amounts of HP or defenses, which I'd rather just take out with my sniper rifle or heavy weapon any way.

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

The only problem with that is that often, those numbers are over kill. They only really help you when you're facing things with ridiculous amounts of HP or defenses, which I'd rather just take out with my sniper rifle or heavy weapon any way.

it's not really overkill, I found on my ng+ playthrough that unless I hit them from melee range even ordinary guys can survive one blast, so the damage is needed, scimitar sucked and got better only after I got some upgrades.
You guys act like the fact that you can do melee attack after you shoot is some kind of advantage. By the time you melee and prepare your second scimitar shot, my guy is dead after blast from the Claymore.

[sinosleep]

I haven't even mentioned melee. I've made my reasons for preferring the scimitar clear. It's far more forgiving of misses, it has as huge clip, it allows me to use the sniper rifle while in invaluable for situations where I can't charge and in dealing with YMIR mechs, and I haven't noticed any significant delay in my killing speed with it. What you kill in 1 second I kill in 2 or less. Less than a half second is well worth it for all the benefits it provides.

Modifié par sinosleep, 18 février 2010 - 05:12 .

[Kurupt87]

claymore, to use wow terms here, is a single target dps wep. the scimitar is aoe dps and is safer. you have argued for claymore, i will now give an example of the scimitar.
in samaras recruitment, during the boss fight, random mobs spawn in from side rooms until wasea is dead. because i was charging around like a mentalist i'd got way ahead of allies, had flanked the 3 or 4 guys along with wasea, when behind me 3 mobs opened a door and walked in started shooting me. 2 vanguards and a heavy. now, at this stage, holding R1 to pause and swing and check out whos behind me, i was thinking ahh well, i'll die but i'll give em a gd go. warp'd one vg, cs'd another, charged the warped target, boom goes scim followed by melee. now, he is stun'd for sure, and the cs'd guy is just figuring out where he is. the heavy's rocket just blew up where i charged from. shotgun shot 2 is dead vg, now starts the simitar dance, sidestepping and blasting away at both targets, and due to shotgun stun and charge when it got off cd, as well as the inferno aoe stun on health, i easily killed all three in about 10 seconds without ever going into health.
now this was obviously a dream situation for the scim, all 3 of em nicely clumped together, but it shows how good the scim is at handling crowds.

edit: i say 10s as a guesstimate, i dno how long it was because im not a clock, all i kno is that it was damned fast, and that i couldnt have done it with the claymore. one guy would be dead, maybe a 2nd if i do really well, but there was no cover nearby that i could use, diagram time
+ = bad guy
v = me

+   +
                      +  +
+  +        v      +

all the cover available would have put into line of fire of the other grouping, so no chance to hop behind cover and reload.

Modifié par Kurupt87, 18 février 2010 - 05:35 .