2583 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Ah ok, guess I'll go ahead an download it then, lol.

[Graunt]

Ah nevermind, it's under Cerberus Weapon and Armor.

Modifié par Graunt, 10 février 2010 - 05:30 .

[_Dannok1234]

Thats great Sniosleep, good to see others confirming what I've been saying about that lately, and now there's several thats been confirming what I've been saying about AP ammo. Allmost wish it wasn't so, but what can you do.



To those that asked about the Advanced Weapons training, I personally always liked having the Vindicator and Scimitar over taking the Claymore, and with this new "claymore light", there seems to be even less reason to take it. Unless you specifically want it for the big freakin' gun factor, otherwise you just lose out I think. If I ever feel like doing some work from distance, the Vindicator is great for head shots. Such as those annoying platforms that Sinosleep just did, I can't believe he didn't get more bugs in that clip, I seem to get 'em constantly.

[sinosleep]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Thats great Sniosleep, good to see others confirming what I've been saying about that lately, and now there's several thats been confirming what I've been saying about AP ammo. Allmost wish it wasn't so, but what can you do.

To those that asked about the Advanced Weapons training, I personally always liked having the Vindicator and Scimitar over taking the Claymore, and with this new "claymore light", there seems to be even less reason to take it. Unless you specifically want it for the big freakin' gun factor, otherwise you just lose out I think. If I ever feel like doing some work from distance, the Vindicator is great for head shots. Such as those annoying platforms that Sinosleep just did, I can't believe he didn't get more bugs in that clip, I seem to get 'em constantly.

It's seems to be a line of sight issue with the initial "boarding" gap I guess you could call it where you can board the individual platforms. If your charge can't make it through the gap, you will get a glitch. If you line it up so that you can charge through the gap, then you shouldn't get one. Unless of course you are charging UP to the gap vertically instead of down from the gap. This isn't an issue on the first platform because it winds up being level to the platform you are on. The 2nd and 3rd platforms however force you to hurdle the gap in order to board. If you try to charge up the gap you will get a glitch and get stopped at the gap. You can however, charge down from a higher platform unto a lower platform so long as you line it up to go through the actual gap, since if you clip anything you will, once again, glitch.

[_Dannok1234]

I sometimes seem to be having issues charging through the thicker walls that are on those things. I probably just gave up it, expect for the first platform. Going to head back in and give it a go.

Edit : seems to glitch more when charging from "in cover", so standing up first helps a bit with those thicker walls and as you say going close to the edge of the platforms.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 06:03 .

[GCreature]

sinosleep wrote...

Unless the DLC is free, I won't be getting it so I have no way of testing it. All I know is from all the testing I did on the collector ship, none of the defensive bonus powers seemed worth it. I tried all of them except for fortification (don't really understand why it's even in the game cause from the tooltip it appears to do the exact same thing as barrier except it doesn't get universal cool down bonuses) and on the collector ship at least none of them lasted long enough to be of any benefit. They would last until a harbinger showed up, at which point he would blast them to oblivion before I could charge and refill them. Since I don't need the extra protection against normal mobs, and it's not enough against big bads like harbingers I don't think they are worth it at all.

Because I'm still getting used to using a keyboard and mouse, I'm not a great shot, so I'm not headshotting everything I charge. Which means I've been finding Barrier useful against standard geezers. I can see how  the more skillful you get, the less useful it is though. Right now it's a bit of a crutch.

[_Dannok1234]

It's only in your mind GCreature, try without it. Don't shoot back at your enemies then try with it. I challenge you to find anything more then milliseconds of improvement, if any with any kind of shield "stacked" with heavy charge.

[thisisme8]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Thats great Sniosleep, good to see others confirming what I've been saying about that lately, and now there's several thats been confirming what I've been saying about AP ammo. Allmost wish it wasn't so, but what can you do.

To those that asked about the Advanced Weapons training, I personally always liked having the Vindicator and Scimitar over taking the Claymore, and with this new "claymore light", there seems to be even less reason to take it. Unless you specifically want it for the big freakin' gun factor, otherwise you just lose out I think. If I ever feel like doing some work from distance, the Vindicator is great for head shots. Such as those annoying platforms that Sinosleep just did, I can't believe he didn't get more bugs in that clip, I seem to get 'em constantly.

About the Claymore and the AP ammo:
The Claymore is the single most reliable "1 shot, 1 kill" shotgun.  Paired with AP ammo, you get an immediate 70% boost to damage vs. armor and health.  While the Incendiary ammo provides a close 60%, it is also over 3 seconds.  So in my experience, the Incendiary ammo is best suited for the Katana and Scim since more often then not, you will be 2 shotting enemies, which gives enough time for the ammo DOT's to really work for you.  Pairing AP Ammo with the Katana, Scim, or Evi is reduntant and a waste of your Bonus Power.
Now, with the Claymore's reload pattern, you want to avoid a second shot at all costs.  You want to shoot once and them be dead, which is why an immediate damage bonus vs. the one thing shotties lack (until Evi): armor is optimal.  As a side bonus, it also amplifies your health damage.  So really, the AP Ammo is only useful if you pair it with the Claymore for a consta-Charge Vanguard.  It's definitely a "Specialist" setup.  Remember, the key to this build is reliability.

Let me sum it up since sometimes I feel like I ramble and lose people:
AP Ammo + Claymore = Psycho Charging 1 shot Vanguard
Other Ammo + Other Shotgun = More flexible Vanguard that doesn't rely on the Claymore and AP Ammo


Currently I'm running through with the Scim, Heavy Warp Ammo, Shockwave, and Pull (ignoring Incendiary and Cryo completely) just to see how well it works and whether or not I ever find any use out of my other powers on Insanity.  The problem with me is it's not like I don't think they are useful, I just keep forgetting that I have them.


One of these days I'll break down and get Reave...

[_Dannok1234]

thisisme8 wrote...
About the Claymore and the AP ammo:
The Claymore is the single most reliable "1 shot, 1 kill" shotgun.  Paired with AP ammo, you get an immediate 70% boost to damage vs. armor and health.  While the Incendiary ammo provides a close 60%, it is also over 3 seconds.  So in my experience, the Incendiary ammo is best suited for the Katana and Scim since more often then not, you will be 2 shotting enemies, which gives enough time for the ammo DOT's to really work for you.  Pairing AP Ammo with the Katana, Scim, or Evi is reduntant and a waste of your Bonus Power.
Now, with the Claymore's reload pattern, you want to avoid a second shot at all costs.  You want to shoot once and them be dead, which is why an immediate damage bonus vs. the one thing shotties lack (until Evi): armor is optimal.  As a side bonus, it also amplifies your health damage.  So really, the AP Ammo is only useful if you pair it with the Claymore for a consta-Charge Vanguard.  It's definitely a "Specialist" setup.  Remember, the key to this build is reliability.

Let me sum it up since sometimes I feel like I ramble and lose people:
AP Ammo + Claymore = Psycho Charging 1 shot Vanguard
Other Ammo + Other Shotgun = More flexible Vanguard that doesn't rely on the Claymore and AP Ammo


Currently I'm running through with the Scim, Heavy Warp Ammo, Shockwave, and Pull (ignoring Incendiary and Cryo completely) just to see how well it works and whether or not I ever find any use out of my other powers on Insanity.  The problem with me is it's not like I don't think they are useful, I just keep forgetting that I have them.


One of these days I'll break down and get Reave...

Fact is this. I find that AP ammo does 2-3mm of health damage on the health bar more then Inferno ammo when used with the Evi.
This suggests to me that the Inferno ammo description is wrong. It does not apply 60% of weapon damage over 3 seconds, but rather it does it at once and works against health as well. Which makes AP ammo pretty much a 10% boost over inferno. Which to me is really not worth a bonus talent. I'd rather try to find that damage somewhere else.

In regards to a DOT working better with a fast weapon then a slow one. Well that doesn't seem quite right does it? Since it would be renewed and thus canceled out after a mere 0.6 seconds with the Scimitar vs 2 seconds with the Claymore. Either weapon can give you a Psycho charging vanguard of death. Thats more about play style then weapon choice. It's just that one kills 0.4 seconds slower then the other at most and more safely against elites. (and one gets access to other weapons to play around with should one get bored with the shotgun or not be able to charge)

Also consider this. Christina Norman says that DOTS will be applied instantly against targets that have armor or shields, further showing how tiny the difference between the two ammo's are.

Claymore 200 base damage a shot, with inferno 320, with AP ammo 340. Not exactly great improvement is it.
Compared to say Reave for the times when you face enemies you cannot charge.

So all in all I would say that your reasoning is a bit wrong. Seems like the Inferno ammo is more useful to a Claymore then AP ammo, and AP is better for the faster shooting weapons(not that I think it's useful at all over another bonus power, or over inferno due to panic on organics).
Since if you are killing things in one shot with the Claymore, then it will have armor/shield and thus give you the full bonus of Inferno at once even if the description is correct.

Edit: i have a feeling that pretty much any ammo will work just fine, just some are safer then others. I get what you mean about abilities tho'. When you have charge, X ammo power and a shotgun of your choice, you really don't need much else. Except for the rare times you are unable to charge.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 06:52 .

[Corak2009]

Any tips for completing the Purgatory mission with a Vanguard? There is a section with lots of enemies and one of the big mechs. You can't charge because it is hard to find cover, and the Mech is always shooting rockets like crazy. All of these other videos have enemies scattered around with plenty of cover. I know the key to using a vanguard is charging and then finding cover while the power cools down. In purgatory, you have a lot of enemies with little cover.

[_Dannok1234]

You can actually still charge around quite a lot in that room(assuming I'm thinking of the same room). When you enter and there are enemies on the opposite side of you(not those down below you), you can charge into them and from there pretty much charge anyone else. I think I just charged around like a madman until only the mech was left. Hit pause once in a while and you might be able to set your squad to distract the mech while you finish off the prison guards.

[lazorexplosion]

Dannok1234 wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...
About the Claymore and the AP ammo:
The Claymore is the single most reliable "1 shot, 1 kill" shotgun.  Paired with AP ammo, you get an immediate 70% boost to damage vs. armor and health.  While the Incendiary ammo provides a close 60%, it is also over 3 seconds.  So in my experience, the Incendiary ammo is best suited for the Katana and Scim since more often then not, you will be 2 shotting enemies, which gives enough time for the ammo DOT's to really work for you.  Pairing AP Ammo with the Katana, Scim, or Evi is reduntant and a waste of your Bonus Power.
Now, with the Claymore's reload pattern, you want to avoid a second shot at all costs.  You want to shoot once and them be dead, which is why an immediate damage bonus vs. the one thing shotties lack (until Evi): armor is optimal.  As a side bonus, it also amplifies your health damage.  So really, the AP Ammo is only useful if you pair it with the Claymore for a consta-Charge Vanguard.  It's definitely a "Specialist" setup.  Remember, the key to this build is reliability.

Let me sum it up since sometimes I feel like I ramble and lose people:
AP Ammo + Claymore = Psycho Charging 1 shot Vanguard
Other Ammo + Other Shotgun = More flexible Vanguard that doesn't rely on the Claymore and AP Ammo


Currently I'm running through with the Scim, Heavy Warp Ammo, Shockwave, and Pull (ignoring Incendiary and Cryo completely) just to see how well it works and whether or not I ever find any use out of my other powers on Insanity.  The problem with me is it's not like I don't think they are useful, I just keep forgetting that I have them.


One of these days I'll break down and get Reave...

Fact is this. I find that AP ammo does 2-3mm of health damage on the health bar more then Inferno ammo when used with the Evi.
This suggests to me that the Inferno ammo description is wrong. It does not apply 60% of weapon damage over 3 seconds, but rather it does it at once and works against health as well. Which makes AP ammo pretty much a 10% boost over inferno. Which to me is really not worth a bonus talent. I'd rather try to find that damage somewhere else.

In regards to a DOT working better with a fast weapon then a slow one. Well that doesn't seem quite right does it? Since it would be renewed and thus canceled out after a mere 0.6 seconds with the Scimitar vs 2 seconds with the Claymore. Either weapon can give you a Psycho charging vanguard of death. Thats more about play style then weapon choice. It's just that one kills 0.4 seconds slower then the other at most and more safely against elites. (and one gets access to other weapons to play around with should one get bored with the shotgun or not be able to charge)

Also consider this. Christina Norman says that DOTS will be applied instantly against targets that have armor or shields, further showing how tiny the difference between the two ammo's are.

Claymore 200 base damage a shot, with inferno 320, with AP ammo 340. Not exactly great improvement is it.
Compared to say Reave for the times when you face enemies you cannot charge.

So all in all I would say that your reasoning is a bit wrong. Seems like the Inferno ammo is more useful to a Claymore then AP ammo, and AP is better for the faster shooting weapons(not that I think it's useful at all over another bonus power, or over inferno due to panic on organics).
Since if you are killing things in one shot with the Claymore, then it will have armor/shield and thus give you the full bonus of Inferno at once even if the description is correct.

Edit: i have a feeling that pretty much any ammo will work just fine, just some are safer then others. I get what you mean about abilities tho'. When you have charge, X ammo power and a shotgun of your choice, you really don't need much else. Except for the rare times you are unable to charge.

I noticed incinerate says x damage over 3 seconds just like inferno ammo, but seems to do at least 50% of its damage in the initial blast and the rest as dps over 3 seconds; it takes off a big chuck of life immediately. Probably inferno ammo is similar? If so I'm inclined to agree with you, you may as well use inferno ammo which does only slightly less damage but panics unshielded organics with the burning and pick reave.

[thisisme8]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Fact is this. I find that AP ammo does 2-3mm of health damage on the health bar more then Inferno ammo when used with the Evi.
This suggests to me that the Inferno ammo description is wrong. It does not apply 60% of weapon damage over 3 seconds, but rather it does it at once and works against health as well. Which makes AP ammo pretty much a 10% boost over inferno. Which to me is really not worth a bonus talent. I'd rather try to find that damage somewhere else.

In regards to a DOT working better with a fast weapon then a slow one. Well that doesn't seem quite right does it? Since it would be renewed and thus canceled out after a mere 0.6 seconds with the Scimitar vs 2 seconds with the Claymore. Either weapon can give you a Psycho charging vanguard of death. Thats more about play style then weapon choice. It's just that one kills 0.4 seconds slower then the other at most and more safely against elites. (and one gets access to other weapons to play around with should one get bored with the shotgun or not be able to charge)

Also consider this. Christina Norman says that DOTS will be applied instantly against targets that have armor or shields, further showing how tiny the difference between the two ammo's are.

Claymore 200 base damage a shot, with inferno 320, with AP ammo 340. Not exactly great improvement is it.
Compared to say Reave for the times when you face enemies you cannot charge.

So all in all I would say that your reasoning is a bit wrong. Seems like the Inferno ammo is more useful to a Claymore then AP ammo, and AP is better for the faster shooting weapons(not that I think it's useful at all over another bonus power, or over inferno due to panic on organics).
Since if you are killing things in one shot with the Claymore, then it will have armor/shield and thus give you the full bonus of Inferno at once even if the description is correct.

Edit: i have a feeling that pretty much any ammo will work just fine, just some are safer then others. I get what you mean about abilities tho'. When you have charge, X ammo power and a shotgun of your choice, you really don't need much else. Except for the rare times you are unable to charge.

I follow you.  It's actually hitting home right now too because I'm running around with Warp Ammo and not feeling that much of a difference with it either...  and hell, Warp Ammo is much less than AP or Incendiary.  What I'm hoping is that it makes a noticeable difference against the Collector's Barriers.  If it doesn't, then I'm done using the bonus power for Ammo Types.

Perhaps with the Claymore, having any maxed Ammo Type at all will get you in the 1 shot category.

Lastly, does anyone know for sure if Evi's armor damage bonus comes with, or at the cost of, shield damage?

[tehWillis]

So now that Evi is in, AP ammo is kinda useless. So which bonus power is recommended? I eyeballing energy drain, but I don't like the idea of being locked out of charge for 6 seconds when I use the drain. Or should I just go for AoE Reave?

[rumination888]

tehWillis wrote...

So now that Evi is in, AP ammo is kinda useless. So which bonus power is recommended? I eyeballing energy drain, but I don't like the idea of being locked out of charge for 6 seconds when I use the drain. Or should I just go for AoE Reave?

This quote from Dannok a few posts up says it all:

When you have charge, X ammo power and a shotgun of your choice, you really don't need much else.

[tehWillis]

Aye true, but I gotta fill that bonus power slot with something. And I'd prefer it's something I could get some use out of at least. 

Modifié par tehWillis, 10 février 2010 - 09:13 .

[_Dannok1234]

rumination I'm glad more and more of the vanguard crowd are seeing it, seems less likely I'm wrong that way For some time now I've been wondering if I was going nuts.



tehwillis

Reave, Dominate, Drone all fairly useful. If you actually remember to use them you can use Dominate to set up somewhat easier charging etc.



I tend to dream up some tactic or another for a specific place, then when I actually get there.. Charge, Shoot and melee, repeat until everything is dead.

[Sarah Aran]

Corak2009 wrote...

Any tips for completing the Purgatory mission with a Vanguard? There is a section with lots of enemies and one of the big mechs. You can't charge because it is hard to find cover, and the Mech is always shooting rockets like crazy. All of these other videos have enemies scattered around with plenty of cover. I know the key to using a vanguard is charging and then finding cover while the power cools down. In purgatory, you have a lot of enemies with little cover.

That particular room was the room that sold me on a vanguard as I ended up grinning from ear to ear after it. There are plenty of enemies around the room to put distance between you and the mech at a moments notice, the hardest part really ends up being getting the silly things shields down. Assuming you're playing on a fresh game you'll find getting the shields down to be the hardest part, just keep trying to charge to somewhere behind the bot, preferably leaving your squadmates drawing its fire. The enemies shouldn't really be a problem, but if you're having trouble with them, try cutting a path to the back of the room as soon as you can and take the catwalks. The height should negate everything except the bot.

[tehWillis]

Thanks for the tips! I went ahead and snagged Reave.



I find myself doing the same thing as well. Like Shockwave, I find it very fun to use but always forget it once I start Charging around. xD

[mundus66]

Regarding armor pieces: I find the arms that give 5% weapon damage better than 10% spare ammo. Same for the head, the Dr Pepper Recon hood which gives 5% weapon damage is better imo than 10% headshot damage, its but ugly though, so i can understand why you rather use the visor.

Modifié par mundus66, 10 février 2010 - 10:09 .

[sinosleep]

I'm thinking about just completely neglecting the bonus power. I was fooling around with cryo ammo on the collector ship and it's actually a lot better than I was expecting considering it's only supposed to damage health. Fact is, it's not very hard to get guys down to health in this game, and with cryo ammo freezing everyone and their mother it's actually a far better defense than any of the barriers are. And since mass reave doesn't one shot armor like I did in hardcore, cryo ammo will also come in handy with husks. Just bring along Samara, mass reave, cryo ammo freezes em, shockwave will kill grouped husks quicker than the shotgun will.

[RamsenC]

Not sure about this, but I've heard enemies can resist a duration ability so it ends before it can do full damage. This would probably happen more on insanity, making inferno ammo weaker than expected. Also if the DoT does not stack its even less appealing.

Since I charge almost every cooldown as Vanguard a passive bonus power is the best bet, otherwise you will be waiting to charge too often or rarely use your new ability.

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 11:03 .

[sinosleep]

Well my whole thing about it is that there's a time and place for everything. When I did my hardcore playthrough I maxed charge first, then assault, then warp ammo and finally shockwave. So for the first half of the game I was pretty much using charge exclusively. But by the time I had maxed shockwave I had picked up Samara, unlocked reave, and had evolved her reave into mass reave. This came in very handy on missions like the reaper IFF, the endgame, and really any where I hadn't gone to yet that had cliffs. Charge was still my preferred method to kill most things, but on those levels there was no way in hell I was going to kill 3 or 4 husks faster than a simple cast of mass reave followed by a shockwave. I'm basically going to do the same thing on insanity now except that since mass reave won't one shot all armor barriers I'll have to supplement it with the squad cryo ammo. It'll still be quicker than charge for massed groups of collectors/husks/etc.

[_Dannok1234]

RamenC all my ammo testing and testing in general has been done on insanity. So my earlier "findings"/theory still holds on the ammo as far I'm aware. I will try out the Cryo thing tho, more and more are talking about it. It does seem to make sense, especially as a squad ammo. Even if it's just 10-20% chance to freeze with that many bullets zipping around, it's bound to hit fairly often.

About that place your talking about Sinosleep, I was thinking my reave+Samara's then Jack or Jacob for shockwave/lift. See if that can just plow through 'em.

Edit : "Lastly, does anyone know for sure if Evi's armor damage bonus comes with, or at the cost of, shield damage?"

to thisisme8
I haven't noticed any lack of shield damage. It will oneshot enemies on insanity if you hit them in the head with either inferno or ap ammo. (doesn't make a difference unless you hit the body, in which case 1 melee hit kills regardless.)

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 11:50 .

[RamsenC]

You can't be too sure what's happening with the inferno ammo by just looking at an enemies health bar though. I'm not saying I'm right, but if my doubts about inferno ammo are true, than AP is far better.

Also you can do mass reave followed by a shockwave by just having Samara on the squad. Unless you really want two reaves. However, in the game I'm playing now I picked the Vindicator over the Claymore so I don't really need a long range ability. I can see how picking Claymore would make reave more appealing.

If inferno ammo is better than I think, I would probably go with Dominate for the interesting tactics you can open up or see if I can consistently keep Geth Shield Boost up.

edit: BTW does inferno ammo do any damage to synthetics? Still not sure about that. Also I have not noticed the Evi having worse damage against shields. Hence its awesomeness.

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 12:04 .