2583 réponses à ce sujet

[_Dannok1234]

But thats the thing RamenC, how can AP be far better when I tried the following:
First Hub you encounter on the Heretic Station.
Geth Trooper, insanity. Evi, AP ammo. Head shot=Dead, Body shot 1-2mm of red left on the health bar.
Geth Trooper, insanity. Evi Inferno Ammo. Head shot=Dead, body shot 3-4mm of red left on health bar.
(for consistencies sake I actually did that 4 times with each ammo on the same trooper.)

Now I'm an accountant and not a scientist, but I'm fairly sure that would indicate that the difference between the two ammunition types in terms of damage is rather small. I didn't watch if there was any additional burning going on or not, synthetic enemies do not seem to panic however.

Don't get me wrong tho, I would love to have someone contradict that if they can provide a repeatable test etc.But until then, I'll say AP ammo is damn near worthless as a bonus power for anyone that has Inferno.

About the reave thing. Since it won't deplete armor fully on insanity I want samara's for near instant take down of husk armor, but your right it's perfectly viable to pick something else. I did play around with dominate some and it was very useful, to the point were I forgot to charge at times.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 12:20 .

[RamsenC]

I don't think the Geth are the best enemies to test that on since they have high shields and low health, Probably the easiest enemies to one shot.

Again not saying you are wrong, but I've noticed Warp doing more damage than Reave because of the duration being cut short on insanity. This does not happen all the time though and it could only be something that only effects biotics. Still curious about inferno DoTs stacking as well.

edit: I think i'll test this out as well.

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 12:28 .

[_Dannok1234]

Trying to think of a place thats easy to test it on. If not shields and syntethics (figured they'd be a bit neutral, but as you point out the inferno might not even work on them at all). What does have armor tho, if that was the preferred option. Mech's are again not organic.. Worcha and Krogan regain health, so might put unfair bias towards inferno. Other then that we have scions and harbringers, but those might be difficult to test on consistently.



I think I'll just wait for yours and see if you I can duplicate it if yours differ

[Northborn]

Blue Suns on the Grunt or Purgatory missions might make good test subjects. :3



Some have armor I believe.

[RamsenC]

I was planning on testing vs random merc chumps on the Zaeed loyalty mission. So any missions with stupid mercs should do



On a side note Tali is pretty awesome as a squad member. Seems enemies can't help but get distracted by her drone, which makes getting away with risky stuff easier. Also if you are fighting a tough enemy like Scion for example, you can get a constant assault of shoot-melee-melee-shoot with the Evi. Does massive damage in a short time, just back off Scions when they are about to do that explode move.

[Kronner]

I decided to try both Claymore and Evi with Warp, Tungsten and Inferno ammo each, against Collectors (Drone, Guardian, Assassin) on Horizon.
/I've chosen this fight because I can just restart the mission with differenent gun/change talents before going in without big time loss.

Neither ammo is worth taking over Inferno imho. I do not think there will be any difference with armored foes, since Inferno is supposed to give bonus against it.

NG+, Insanity
level 30 Vanguard
2/5 Shotgun damage and +50% damage against shields
using Cerberus Assault Armor just for kicks

Evi and Tungsten:


Evi and Warp:


Evi and Inferno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6D73RnZEGw

Claymore and Tungsten:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5WPg2s1cI8

Claymore and Warp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAsV75kZFDc

Claymore and Inferno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3ph7RgvX3c

[RamsenC]

Nice videos, seems the inferno ammo was doing fine. I just find it strange that Bioware says 3 seconds, but its not 3 seconds at all.



Throw some melees between those Evi shots

[Kronner]

RamsenC wrote...

Nice videos, seems the inferno ammo was doing fine. I just find it strange that Bioware says 3 seconds, but its not 3 seconds at all.

Throw some melees between those Evi shots

Yeah, still working on shot-melee-shot

Also, I think I read somewhere that supposed DoT is converted into immediate damage if the enemy has any kind of shielding..I think it is actually that way. Will try to find that post (I think Christina Norman posted it)

Modifié par Kronner, 10 février 2010 - 01:32 .

[mundus66]

Inferno armor is just as good with evi or assault shotgun imo, but when you use claymore, you want them to die in 1 shot so i would take ap ammo. I say, go evi and get mass reave, that combined with Samars mass reave is lethal. There are some situations where charge just isn't viable, mainly vs big foes. In these situations the only thing you can do is shoot. With reave you have an extra attack. Also vs mobs like husks i usually use reave to soften them up. Before i shockwave/mass pull (Samara).

Modifié par mundus66, 10 février 2010 - 01:36 .

[_Dannok1234]

Very nice vid's Kronner. The only differences I could see in those was that the barriers went down slightly faster with Warp ammo.(not so much I'd bother taking it if I had inferno however)

I've been playing around on the collector vessel (first one), as a soldier with 3/4 in AP and Inferno. I could not tell the difference between the two when firing on armor or health. So I'm guessing that Inferno ammo damage adds to health or AP ammo doesn't(but I think it does). Because a 50% difference would have been noticeable, while a 10% difference might not mean much. I used the Vindicator and 10% damage is about 11 points of damage per burst,which is something you won't be noticing in game.

Which goes back to ammo powers as a bonus to anyone that has inferno is a waste.

One thing I did note, was that there was no DOT at all firing on armored things, or at least not Harbinger, Praetorean(sp) or husks. Which suggests that what I said earlier about DOTS being applied instantly on armored foes to be correct. It does actually seem to burn shield/barrier wearing enemies, so not sure about that mechanic, but maybe the burn itself is % of base damage and is in addition to a straight up damage increase.

Example would be: Scimitar base damage 81.9 Damage. 60% of base damage is 52,65 applied over 3 seconds.
I'll assume that ME2 like most games do not stack dots from the same source, but renews, which would work well with what I generally see in game. It's also a tiny amount of damage. Which would suggest that Inferno actually gets a damage boost straight up, just like the other ammo types. It's just not a very good description.

Which can be said for a good many abilities in this game. I'm pretty sure it says the cooldown on drone is 30.00 seconds for example, nor does it say that adrenaline rush gets 100%/140% damage bonus.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[sinosleep]

Here's the link for the DOTS applying instantly thing

click here

Christina Norman wrote...

All damage over time effects do full damage immediately to armor, barrier, and shields

Modifié par sinosleep, 10 février 2010 - 01:56 .

[_Dannok1234]

There you go, thats what I was saying earlier

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Here's the link for the DOTS applying instantly thing

[url=

[/url]

http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/128/index/1067808

]click here

Christina Norman wrote...

All damage over time effects do full damage immediately to armor, barrier, and shields

Nice find! Thanks.
So there is no point in taking AP or Warp over Inferno for sure now

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

Nice find! Thanks.
So there is no point in taking AP or Warp over Inferno for sure now

Well, AP ammo should still do more damage to health quicker, since inferno should DOT on health.

[mundus66]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Nice find! Thanks.
So there is no point in taking AP or Warp over Inferno for sure now

Well, AP ammo should still do more damage to health quicker, since inferno should DOT on health.

Well yes but when it does damage to health the enemies are dancing, which gives you enough time to line up another shot. With Claymore i would stick with AP rounds though.

[_Dannok1234]

But it's only 10%! 10% for 10 bloody talent points.. how good is that.

Edit :
I just had another go with the Evi and ap/inferno. On the geth there is a difference of roughly 3-4mm of health. That would turn larger with the Claymore so with that gun I can see the appeal. The less base your weapon does, the less noticeable the difference becomes, and visa versa.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 02:17 .

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Nice find! Thanks.
So there is no point in taking AP or Warp over Inferno for sure now

Well, AP ammo should still do more damage to health quicker, since inferno should DOT on health.

Yes, but when enemy has only health he is dead anyways AND Inferno causes organics to panic..
Inferno is the best ammo for Vanguard in the game imho.

Modifié par Kronner, 10 février 2010 - 02:04 .

[sinosleep]

Hey man, I'm not sayin, I'm just saying. At the end of the day the bonus talent is kinda negligible any way. IF you're going to play a bull rushing vanguard you're going to have to invest 30 points in charge, assault, and an ammo type. By the time you put another 10 into something else you're already 3/4 of the way through the game.

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Hey man, I'm not sayin, I'm just saying. At the end of the day the bonus talent is kinda negligible any way. IF you're going to play a bull rushing vanguard you're going to have to invest 30 points in charge, assault, and an ammo type. By the time you put another 10 into something else you're already 3/4 of the way through the game.

Definitely agreed!
Though, sometimes I feel like playing with some tactics and then Area Reave is great fun

[RamsenC]

After messing around with inferno ammo its good enough. The DoT for health damage is a minor inconvenience at best. On a whim i decided to side with Morinth for a cooldown free dominate (also Samara is lame), which leaves me open for a new power or some double domination.

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...
Definitely agreed!
Though, sometimes I feel like playing with some tactics and then Area Reave is great fun

Oh indeed it is, I just wanted to be the one to be tossing the shockwaves about. Then I realized that if I still wanted to have squad cryo ammo I'd be level 30.

Modifié par sinosleep, 10 février 2010 - 02:19 .

[_Dannok1234]

Can't believe I didn't do this sooner! What a fool I am.

Went back without any ammo mods and did it again. Here's the run down.
Ammo powers work on base damage, which with all the other things you get like +% against shields and damage, turn out to be just a small part of the damage your weapon is doing. So AP ammo does add 70% base damage more to health then Inferno does. It's just that it's not that big of a deal. The higher the damage on the weapon, the more you'll notice it. So claymore, Widow and some extent Evi will benefit the most from AP ammo, for the rest it's nothing you'll care about.

Edit: on second thought though, who even remembers to use your bonus power as a vanguard unless it's a ammo mod  

Modifié par Dannok1234, 10 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...
Definitely agreed!
Though, sometimes I feel like playing with some tactics and then Area Reave is great fun

Oh indeed it is, I just wanted to be the one to be tossing the shockwaves about. Then I realized that if I still wanted to have squad cryo ammo I'd be level 30.

Try NG+, you lose Paragon/Renegade points (kinda dumb) but you get to keep your guns and level.
maybe something like:
Heavy Charge 10
Ammo for you 10
Squad cryo ammo 10
Assault mastery 10

thats 40 points gone, another 10 to either Shockwave or Bonus talent and one for Pull.

Vanguards rock

Modifié par Kronner, 10 février 2010 - 02:27 .

[RamsenC]

I wish you could give up your loyalty power for faster cooldowns. Don't think I even need one anymore.

[RamsenC]

I made a short video on how to use the Evi against tougher enemies. I went up against a Geth Prime with minor support from Tali, while keeping aggro the entire time. Pretty much went shoot-meleex2-shoot which kept the Geth Prime from doing much of anything.



edit: I like how Tali says "nice" at the end.

Modifié par RamsenC, 10 février 2010 - 04:06 .