2583 réponses à ce sujet

[Sabresandiego]

Claymore and Eviscerator are great shotguns, but Scimitar needs some love in this thread. It may not have the one shot kill power or the DPS that the others have, but it has its own advantages.



-It is better against barriers than any other shotgun

-It allows you to fire multiple rounds without reloading

-It is a great weapon for stripping defenses

-It is a great shotty for dealing with multiple enemies

-Its a great weapon for setting people on fire with incendiary rounds (it only takes 1 pellet)

-The amount of lead it puts out is unrivaled

-The gun is more versatile than the other shotguns

[thisisme8]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Claymore and Eviscerator are great shotguns, but Scimitar needs some love in this thread. It may not have the one shot kill power or the DPS that the others have, but it has its own advantages.

-It is better against barriers than any other shotgun
-It allows you to fire multiple rounds without reloading
-It is a great weapon for stripping defenses
-It is a great shotty for dealing with multiple enemies
-Its a great weapon for setting people on fire with incendiary rounds (it only takes 1 pellet)
-The amount of lead it puts out is unrivaled
-The gun is more versatile than the other shotguns

You won't find an argument from me.  I love the Scim.  Hell, I'm starting to feel a little love for the Katana too.  It's crazy, but the more I play around with each one, the more I like them.  Their like women in a way.

Edit:  ugh...  I can't believe I typed "Their" in that last sentence.  Should be "They're."  I'm so fired.

Modifié par thisisme8, 09 mars 2010 - 10:10 .

[RamsenC]

I actually like every shotgun too, even the Katana. The biggest reason I go for the Evi is the accuracy, if all the shotguns were that accurate I'm not sure what my favorite would be. One nice thing about the Scimitar is its easier to use when Fraps kills my frame rate since I have to be on point with the Evi to do well. 

Modifié par RamsenC, 09 mars 2010 - 10:07 .

[_Dannok1234]

Today I played through Tali's recruitment mission 3 times in a row just to see what the difference was in terms of gameplay when using Scimitar, Evi and Claymore. Guess what. There was virtually no difference at all. The only thing that I found to be of any note was that it felt slightly safer, or rather I took a bit less damage against the Geth Primes when using the Scimitar due to complete stunlock, though the Evi was not far behind.



The differences in terms of bonus against shields/barrier are generally negated by the fact that the Claymore and Evi have so much higher damage that they are just as good if not better at it. That doesn't mean the Scimitar isn't a great choice, and it is no doubt the easiest one to use and most forgiving. I don't think you'd see much arguing about that if you looked through this thread in fact I'd think it would be the opposite.( I know I've posted enough about it.)



Have to say though that the Claymore feels(to me) slightly redundant now that we have the Evi, against most enemies you will actually kill them faster/as fast using the Evi+melee. Which is great for those of us that like having another weapon. Of course the Claymore does add a certain something intangible quality due to it's size and ompf.

[Kronner]

Sabresandiego wrote...
-It is better against barriers than any other shotgun

Disagree. I bet you anything Claymore strips barrier faster (does a lot more damage, multiplier does not make up for the damage gap), same goes for Evi.

Sabresandiego wrote...
-It allows you to fire multiple rounds without reloading

So what? If enemy (or enemies) is (are) dead, you do not have to fire multiple shots.

Sabresandiego wrote...
-It is a great weapon for stripping defenses

So is any other weapon. If I wanted to strip defenses, I would not play Vanguard, but Sentinel, Engineer or Adept.

Sabresandiego wrote...
-It is a great shotty for dealing with multiple enemies

So is Claymore, Evi or Katana.

Sabresandiego wrote...
-Its a great weapon for setting people on fire with incendiary rounds (it only takes 1 pellet)

Any weapon with Inferno rounds is great for setting organics on fire.

Sabresandiego wrote...
-The amount of lead it puts out is unrivaled

Agree here, but it is not an advantage as far as I am concerned.

Sabresandiego wrote...
-The gun is more versatile than the other shotguns

Disagree. Evi is more versatile.

Scimitar is great weapon, but in most situations Claymore/Evi wins from my personal experience.

[RamsenC]

Even though the Evi does make the Claymore somewhat redundant, the speed at which you kill thing you can't one shot is crazy. You have to land those reload trick melees though.

Modifié par RamsenC, 09 mars 2010 - 10:27 .

[Sabresandiego]

Kronner can disagree with my points all he wants, my videos are enough argument that what I say about the scimitar is true.

[Kronner]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner can disagree with my points all he wants, my videos are enough argument that what I say about the scimitar is true.

Really? Like what?
What does Scimitar have to do with the Reave + Pull + Warp combo? Scimitar does the least damage per shot of all the Shotguns, thus it cannot possibly strip Barrier faster than Claymore or Evi. Every weapon with Inferno Ammo is great for setting organics on fire, not just Scimitar. Scimitar is great for dealing with groups, but so is Evi or Claymore.
How are these advantages?
It is safest to use Shotgun and a very good weapon, but the advantages you listed are laughable.

Modifié par Kronner, 09 mars 2010 - 10:37 .

[RamsenC]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner can disagree with my points all he wants, my videos are enough argument that what I say about the scimitar is true.

I think your videos are a better argument for warp explosions being awesome than the scimitar being awesome. No offense, not trying to start an argument, just saying.

[_Dannok1234]

Posting a video about being successful when using a weapon does not change the facts.

[Sabresandiego]

Kronner wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner can disagree with my points all he wants, my videos are enough argument that what I say about the scimitar is true.

Really? Like what?
What does Scimitar have to do with the Reave + Pull + Warp combo?

Watch my video and count the number of times I use the scimitar to strip defenses before doing a pull, charge, or warp explosion. Now count the amount of times I use reave. You might be surprised.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 09 mars 2010 - 10:39 .

[Kronner]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Watch my video and count the number of times I use the scimitar to strip defenses before doing a warp explosion. Now count the amount of times I use reave. You might be surprised.

heh, once again, I did not say Scimitar is not good at removing defenses, but that is NOT advantage since ALL weapons can do that.

[Sabresandiego]

Kronner wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Watch my video and count the number of times I use the scimitar to strip defenses before doing a warp explosion. Now count the amount of times I use reave. You might be surprised.

heh, once again, I did not say Scimitar is not good at removing defenses, but that is NOT advantage since ALL weapons can do that.

You cant remove defenses as well with other shotguns as you can with the scimitar, due to the fact that they cant put out the same amount of lead. Its simple logic, the claymore can at most take down 1 enemies defense per reload cycle. The scimitar can take out the defenses of far more enemies before having to reload. You also dont have to exploit a bug to make the gun effective.

[Kronner]

Sabresandiego wrote...

You cant remove defenses as well with other shotguns as you can with the scimitar, due to the fact that they cant put out the same amount of lead. Its simple logic, the claymore can at most take down 1 enemies defense per reload cycle. The scimitar can take out the defenses of far more enemies before having to reload. You also dont have to exploit a bug to make the gun effective.

So you wanna go in, strip defenses for all enemies and then do the combo? I doubt it.
From what I have seen (did not see all vids, just the suicide run and the collector ship) is that you use Reave, Pull and Warp to cause explosion.
Also the reload trick is not a bug, Christina Norman herself recommended using this.

Modifié par Kronner, 09 mars 2010 - 10:52 .

[RamsenC]

The reload trick was probably not intended design, but a lot of things that aren't intended become accepted because they add something unique to the game. I can't think of any other examples off hand, but it's happened before.

edit: Oh wait heres an example. In street fighter 2 canceling normals into special moves was not intended design, but it was accepted and now its a street fighter staple.  

Modifié par RamsenC, 09 mars 2010 - 10:54 .

[Sabresandiego]

Kronner wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

You cant remove defenses as well with other shotguns as you can with the scimitar, due to the fact that they cant put out the same amount of lead. Its simple logic, the claymore can at most take down 1 enemies defense per reload cycle. The scimitar can take out the defenses of far more enemies before having to reload. You also dont have to exploit a bug to make the gun effective.

You can take step back and shoot, bam defense gone and you can use the combo.
Also the reload trick is not a bug, Christina Norman herself recommended using this.

If you take a step back and shoot with claymore, that removes one enemies defense. With scimitar I can unload lead onto multiple targets without reloading, removing defenses much more rapidly and effectively. There are multiple examples of this in my speed run.

0:06 I use warp to remove barrier but a sliver of it is left. I wouldnt waste a claymore shot on removing that, but I fire my scimitar at long range to remove that sliver of barrier so I can immediately do a pull + charge combo.

0:17 I use scimitar to remove defenses so I can get a charge knockback

0:52 I use long range scimitar shots to finish off an almost dead collector

Im not gonna go through the whole video, those examples are sufficient enough to prove that scimitar can do things that claymore would be much less efficient at.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 09 mars 2010 - 10:56 .

[_Dannok1234]

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner can disagree with my points all he wants, my videos are enough argument that what I say about the scimitar is true.

Really? Like what?
What does Scimitar have to do with the Reave + Pull + Warp combo?

Watch my video and count the number of times I use the scimitar to strip defenses before doing a pull, charge, or warp explosion. Now count the amount of times I use reave. You might be surprised.

Why do you need to keep mentioning your videos when we are talking about the different merits/capability of shotguns. I do not see how your videos connect to it. 

While there is some difference in the time taken to kill a normal or "elite" enemy, the difference is very small, and it can actually change depending on the number of enemies you are going to kill in a row. If you had read our discussions on this subject you'll find plenty of math to show you that they are all very similar, but there is no denying the fact that the Scimitar does the least amount of damage and takes the longest to kill a single enemy.

I'll write it once again, just for you.
The Scimitar uses 0.6 seconds assuming you are proficient at meleeing in between the shots to kill one normal enemy on insanity level 30, fully upgraded. With the Evi it takes the time of a 1 shot+1melee which is slightly faster. With the Claymore it's an instant death so for one normal enemy it is the winner by up to 0.3-0.5 seconds I would say. When it comes to firing/killing your next enemy, the Claymore can do that after 1.5 seconds, the Evi after 1.25 seconds and the Scimitar at 1.8 seconds. Again you can see it's slightly behind. For 3 enemies the Evi has pulled ahead with a theoretical speed of 2.5 seconds, and the Claymore and Scimitar are tied for 3 seconds. However you will need to aim/move extremely fast to achieve that with the Scimitar. (Probably best with pausing and tightly packed enemies, but it does happen.)

None of this makes the Scimitar a worse choice however, you shoot more often which means you have a greater chance for Inferno rounds to cause panic etc etc. They are just different and it comes down to which one you prefer to use the most. It just happens that many start enjoying the more powerful shotguns for the feel of them. 

[Sabresandiego]

With the claymore you have to make every shot count, with the scimitar you can make a take a bunch of ridiculous potshots and actually benefit from it.

[_Dannok1234]

Sabresandiego wrote...

If you take a step back and shoot with claymore, that removes one enemies defense. With scimitar I can unload lead onto multiple targets without reloading, removing defenses much more rapidly and effectively. There are multiple examples of this in my speed run.

0:06 I use warp to remove barrier but a sliver of it is left. I wouldnt waste a claymore shot on removing that, but I fire my scimitar at long range to remove that sliver of barrier so I can immediately do a pull + charge combo.

0:17 I use scimitar to remove defenses so I can get a charge knockback

0:52 I use long range scimitar shots to finish off an almost dead collector

Im not gonna go through the whole video, those examples are sufficient enough to prove that scimitar can do things that claymore would be much less efficient at.

This only means that you find the Scimitar useful for this purpose, it does not make the Scimitar a superior weapon to the other shotguns.

[Sabresandiego]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Sabresandiego wrote...

Kronner can disagree with my points all he wants, my videos are enough argument that what I say about the scimitar is true.

Really? Like what?
What does Scimitar have to do with the Reave + Pull + Warp combo?

Watch my video and count the number of times I use the scimitar to strip defenses before doing a pull, charge, or warp explosion. Now count the amount of times I use reave. You might be surprised.

Why do you need to keep mentioning your videos when we are talking about the different merits/capability of shotguns. I do not see how your videos connect to it. 

While there is some difference in the time taken to kill a normal or "elite" enemy, the difference is very small, and it can actually change depending on the number of enemies you are going to kill in a row. If you had read our discussions on this subject you'll find plenty of math to show you that they are all very similar, but there is no denying the fact that the Scimitar does the least amount of damage and takes the longest to kill a single enemy.

I'll write it once again, just for you.
The Scimitar uses 0.6 seconds assuming you are proficient at meleeing in between the shots to kill one normal enemy on insanity level 30, fully upgraded. With the Evi it takes the time of a 1 shot+1melee which is slightly faster. With the Claymore it's an instant death so for one normal enemy it is the winner by up to 0.3-0.5 seconds I would say. When it comes to firing/killing your next enemy, the Claymore can do that after 1.5 seconds, the Evi after 1.25 seconds and the Scimitar at 1.8 seconds. Again you can see it's slightly behind. For 3 enemies the Evi has pulled ahead with a theoretical speed of 2.5 seconds, and the Claymore and Scimitar are tied for 3 seconds. However you will need to aim/move extremely fast to achieve that with the Scimitar. (Probably best with pausing and tightly packed enemies, but it does happen.)

None of this makes the Scimitar a worse choice however, you shoot more often which means you have a greater chance for Inferno rounds to cause panic etc etc. They are just different and it comes down to which one you prefer to use the most. It just happens that many start enjoying the more powerful shotguns for the feel of them. 

Good post, I never deny that scimitar has the lowest DPS. I simply listed many of its strengths and Kronner disagreed with me. Your post should be directed at Kronner, not me since I agree with you.

[_Dannok1234]

Sabresandiego, I have to ask this, but do you have some kind of interest in trying to somehow prove that the Scimitar is the best shotgun, do you get sponsored by the maker or some such? I'm having a hard time to understand your motivation for not accepting that it doesn't matter which shotgun you use, it's all about personal choice. The one that is best for you is best for you, the end.

[Kronner]

Well, at 0:06 the combo is totally useless, Claymore/Evi would kill that Collector faster. At 0:17 you remove barrier and toss him away with Charge, if you just Charged, you could kill him easily. 0:052 yeah, it takes you 3 shots to remove tiny amount of health, great. The only thing when the combo makes sense is when you use it from afar, example from 1:41 to 1:45 in your vid, that killed a lot of Collectors, Scimitar had nothing to do with that.
I like Scimitar and sometimes I play with it (hell I did Scimitar only playthrough) but it's main advantage is safety, and good damage overall, not that it can strip defenses.

Modifié par Kronner, 09 mars 2010 - 11:04 .

[Sabresandiego]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Sabresandiego, I have to ask this, but do you have some kind of interest in trying to somehow prove that the Scimitar is the best shotgun, do you get sponsored by the maker or some such? I'm having a hard time to understand your motivation for not accepting that it doesn't matter which shotgun you use, it's all about personal choice. The one that is best for you is best for you, the end.

I never said scimitar was the best shotgun. I said it needs some love. For me it is the most fun to use and most effective. I never claimed it was the best. It is Kronner that claims that Eviscerator and Claymore are superior to scimitar and that is what I refute. Reread the posts, you need to be directing your posts at kronner and not me.

[_Dannok1234]

Hm as far as I'm aware he just refuted a few of your claims in your first post about the Scimitar which you have to admit was inaccurate. If he has changed his mind and now believe that it does matter which weapon you use, then sure I'll argue against him as well, because it really doesn't matter.
The way one plays the game barely changes at all depending on the shotgun used, if it does then that is a personal thing, not a mechanic that forces one to do it.

Edit: Ah yes, his last line in that post. Which states that from his personal experience the other two are better. I have no doubt that this is true for him. From my experience the Scimitar and Evi are superior to the Claymore. Which is what we've said in this thread for many many pages, it's all personal. They are too close.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 09 mars 2010 - 11:08 .

[Kronner]

Sabresandiego wrote...

I never said scimitar was the best shotgun. I said it needs some love. For me it is the most fun to use and most effective. I never claimed it was the best. It is Kronner that claims that Eviscerator and Claymore are superior to scimitar and that is what I refute. Reread the posts, you need to be directing your posts at kronner and not me.

Nah, I simply disagree with your list of "advantages". And Scimitar does not need more love, I think it is actually the most favourite shotgun in this thread (counting people who prefer it). Scimitar is just as effective as any other shotgun, but not for reasons you listed.

Modifié par Kronner, 09 mars 2010 - 11:07 .