2583 réponses à ce sujet

[RamsenC]

thisisme8 wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

When factoring in multiple enemies burst damage is still more important since you want to kill one enemy as fast as possible so you can move to another. DPS would be better if they all lined up perfectly for you, but that never happens. You have a point when it comes to elite enemies, but the scimitar doesn't have any built in damage bonuses to armor, which most elite enemies have.

Claymore is king of dps because of this and the fact that with the reload trick the gun has a giant 20 bullet Thermal clip.

Quiet you

About the timer I have no idea, but I wouldn't mind knowing this.

[Nexolek]

sinosleep wrote...

How is ol boy adding a timer to his videos? I can use the same save I used for the AP ammo vs Inferno ammo comparison. Rachni have a good amount of health and armor and are big so they are hard to miss. I have 4/5 damage upgrades and it looks like reload trick claymore is beasting it up. I don't know how to do the time more accurately than just seconds though.

I guess that depends on what video editor you use. In Premiere it would be very easy to get the times down to hundredths of a second. That's how I cut all my deaths so nicely.

[Sabresandiego]

RamsenC wrote...

When factoring in multiple enemies burst damage is still more important since you want to kill one enemy as fast as possible so you can move to another. DPS would be better if they all lined up perfectly for you, but that never happens. You have a point when it comes to elite enemies, but the scimitar doesn't have any built in damage bonuses to armor, which most elite enemies have.

Claymore is king of dps because of this and the fact that with the reload trick the gun has a giant 20 bullet clip.

When you factor in damage overkill, missed shot penalties, reload errors, and stripped defense biotic combos the scimitar starts to shine. I really like how they made the shotguns so different yet comparable in effectiveness.

Modifié par Sabresandiego, 13 mars 2010 - 03:34 .

[Nexolek]

Big kudos to Bioware. They give us four shotguns that are so equally awesome, yet each so unique. I can't think of anywhere else where I've seen such amazing weapon balance.

[RamsenC]

That's why I like the Evi, it's never overkill and the better accuracy helps ensure all pellets hit. Accuracy is hard to include in dps comparisons, but it does help. Just don't miss...ever

[sinosleep]

All four vids came in at 22 seconds pre edit, lol. Even the katana. I included melee in the comparisons. 2 melees in between evi and katana shots, 1 in between scimi shots, and it doesn't appear that the reload trick melee does any damage.

[thisisme8]

sinosleep wrote...

All four vids came in at 22 seconds pre edit, lol. Even the katana. I included melee in the comparisons. 2 melees in between evi and katana shots, 1 in between scimi shots, and it doesn't appear that the reload trick melee does any damage.

Soooooooooo...  they're still pretty even?

[sinosleep]

Well I have to edit out the differences in the time it took to charge the first rachni, but all told I don't see the difference being anything drastic.

Just downloaded VDUB, it's got a handy dandy counter that's detailed to the hundredths so it'll be easy to see. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 mars 2010 - 03:50 .

[sinosleep]

Damn it, why do I call klixen rachni?

[RamsenC]

Because no one knows what klixen are. At least I don't.

[sinosleep]

Here are the numbers guys.

evi

8.233 first shot hits
10.483 klixen dies
2.25 seconds total

scimi
7.333
9.933
2.6 seconds

katana
7.050
10.350
3.3 seconds

claymore
7.250
9.150
1.9 seconds

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 mars 2010 - 04:09 .

[Sabresandiego]

Ramsen Im gonna record 3 or 4 missions tonight, just casual play. Anything you want to see? You were asking for a blue suns video so I just did strontium mule. Its short and half the video is me doing stupid bypass checks. lol

[RamsenC]

I have no interest in casual play



It doesn't have to be blue suns, anything with blue shield enemies will do.

[Sabresandiego]

RamsenC wrote...

I have no interest in casual play

It doesn't have to be blue suns, anything with blue shield enemies will do.

I dont want to do speed runs since learning the levels makes you go faster and I dont feel like putting in the effort to do that. I tend to play at pretty high speed casually though. Ill do strontium mule, thane recruitment, tali rectruitment, and legion loyalty.

[sinosleep]

Guys, I don't know how I goofed earlier since I deleted the old vids, but I've since refilmed in 1080p doing the same tests several times and with the new numbers the scimi actually comes in last. The time only gets worse if you don't melee in between since it requires a 5th shot and you don't lose any time with the 1 melee 1 shot rotation. As for the improved katana time, the katana fires fast enough where 2 melee attacks actually hurts your time which is what I had done in the first vid. The katana should be fired in a 1 shot 1 melee rotation.

Here are the new times

CLAYMORE

7.00 attacked klixen
8.833 killed klixen

1.833 total time spent


SCIMITAR

6.700 attacked klixen
9.833 killed klixen

3.133 total time spent

EVICERATOR

7.683 attacked klixen
10.083 killed klixen

2.445 total time spent


KATANA

7.017 attacked klixen
9.433 killed klixen

2.416 total time spent

and a link to the video. Will be 1080p when it's done processing. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 mars 2010 - 06:40 .

[Sabresandiego]

The claymore is pure ownage in that video.

[thisisme8]

sinosleep wrote...

Guys, I don't know how I goofed earlier since I deleted the old vids, but I've since refilmed in 1080p doing the same tests several times and with the new numbers the scimi actually comes in last. The time only gets worse if you don't melee in between since it requires a 5th shot and you don't lose any time with the 1 melee 1 shot rotation. As for the improved katana time, the katana fires fast enough where 2 melee attacks actually hurts your time which is what I had done in the first vid. The katana should be fired in a 1 shot 1 melee rotation. 

-cut text-

Sorry, didn't want to start a pyramid.  Anyway, I find that really interesting.  If you do more damage with the Scim rotating melees, then its speed is inconsequential and it loses to the Katana hands down.  However, as interesting as the numbers are, I still stand by "the decision is yours" and they are "essentially" equal.  For min/maxers and DPS kings, there are the numbers and there are the winners and losers.  For those that aren't so concerned, the feel of the shotgun should still be the best indicator for choice.

Great work as usual Sinosleep.

[Sabresandiego]

How are you recording in 1080p, your framerates dont drop? Im gonna have to try it

[sinosleep]

I feel the same way, sure, the scim may have come in last in that vid, but over all I like the fact that it's a very forgiving weapon. Sure, you can positively merc things with the claymore, but good luck if you miss. I hit more often than not, but I still find comfort in knowing that when I have the scim equipped missing isn't the end of the world. You just reacquire the target and keep right in shooting in no time. The katana is the big surprise for me. The time in between the melee and the shot fired seems like a long time which is why I went with 2 melees in the other video but cutting it down to 1 in between shots vaulted the katana to 2nd place. Seems nuts, considering the katana gets the bigger bonus towards shields, not armor.

@sabresandiego The frame rate took a hit, but since I was only fighting one mob I dealt with it. Recording at half screen it floats around 45-60 and then I just upconvert to 720p using anyvideoconverter. I changed it to fullscreen this time around and and the rate dropped to 30-45. 

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 mars 2010 - 07:01 .

[Kronner]

Great demonstration sinosleep! I agree that Claymore is not very forgiving weapon, but the feel it provides is worth it, at least for me

[flamingdts]

sinosleep wrote...

I feel the same way, sure, the scim may have come in last in that vid, but over all I like the fact that it's a very forgiving weapon. Sure, you can positively merc things with the claymore, but good luck if you miss. I hit more often than not, but I still find comfort in knowing that when I have the scim equipped missing isn't the end of the world. You just reacquire the target and keep right in shooting in no time. The katana is the big surprise for me. The time in between the melee and the shot fired seems like a long time which is why I went with 2 melees in the other video but cutting it down to 1 in between shots vaulted the katana to 2nd place. Seems nuts, considering the katana gets the bigger bonus towards shields, not armor.

@sabresandiego The frame rate took a hit, but since I was only fighting one mob I dealt with it. Recording at half screen it floats around 45-60 and then I just upconvert to 720p using anyvideoconverter. I changed it to fullscreen this time around and and the rate dropped to 30-45. 

Sinosleep, 

I'm wondering. Can you make a video comparing the kill speed when against a harbinger? 

Or maybe a video comparing the kill speed when against around 3 enemies? 

I'm really interested in seeing how big of a factor overkilling with the claymore is. Does it actually slow you down significantly when against 3 weaker enemies? 

[sinosleep]

No doubt Kronner. After my first playthrough I swore by the claymore, but my second playthrough saw me switch to the scimitar. Who knows, whenever I get around to making a third vanguard I might wind up switching to another shotgun.

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 mars 2010 - 07:06 .

[Kronner]

flamingdts wrote...

Or maybe a video comparing the kill speed when against around 3 enemies? 

I'm really interested in seeing how big of a factor overkilling with the claymore is. Does it actually slow you down significantly when against 3 weaker enemies? 

Watch the vid in my signature, Claymore is very good against groups.

[Sabresandiego]

flamingdts wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

I feel the same way, sure, the scim may have come in last in that vid, but over all I like the fact that it's a very forgiving weapon. Sure, you can positively merc things with the claymore, but good luck if you miss. I hit more often than not, but I still find comfort in knowing that when I have the scim equipped missing isn't the end of the world. You just reacquire the target and keep right in shooting in no time. The katana is the big surprise for me. The time in between the melee and the shot fired seems like a long time which is why I went with 2 melees in the other video but cutting it down to 1 in between shots vaulted the katana to 2nd place. Seems nuts, considering the katana gets the bigger bonus towards shields, not armor.

@sabresandiego The frame rate took a hit, but since I was only fighting one mob I dealt with it. Recording at half screen it floats around 45-60 and then I just upconvert to 720p using anyvideoconverter. I changed it to fullscreen this time around and and the rate dropped to 30-45. 

Sinosleep, 

I'm wondering. Can you make a video comparing the kill speed when against a harbinger? 

Or maybe a video comparing the kill speed when against around 3 enemies? 

I'm really interested in seeing how big of a factor overkilling with the claymore is. Does it actually slow you down significantly when against 3 weaker enemies? 

I dont think any shotgun kills as fast as a reload trick claymore. The strength of the scimitar lies not in its kill speed, but in its versatility (defense stripping, high ammo, rapid fire, least overkill, good at spreading incendiary, etc...). The claymore is just raw 1 shot power, which is pretty cool in its own way.

[thisisme8]

Edit:  should have quoted Sinosleep's post right after mine.  Sorry.

Not just that, it comes with a bigger Thermal Clip size.  That's huge to me.  If anyone has been watching my videos, you know how bad I am at remembering to reload that sunofab****.

I think that your point is completely valid though.  It's impossible to take an abstract DPS number and declare a practical winner.  There is no way in hell I can do this or this.  I'm just not that good.  So Kronner's or Sabresandiego's opinion on which is the best is all good and well for them, but I have to come to my conclusion on my own, just like they did.  Skill levels are different, reload times and magazine capacities are different, defense multipliers are different, enemies are different, but the most important is that they shoot different.  You have to weigh those things out, and it's why I don't like when people ask "what is the best shotgun?"  Go test them all out and see for yourself, I can't tell you!

Anyways...  If I ruled the world... I'd love all shotguns.  Reggea-style.

Modifié par thisisme8, 13 mars 2010 - 07:15 .