2583 réponses à ce sujet

[_Dannok1234]

Bah all this info is on what, page 15 or so
It's easy to keep track of how it works, anything the Claymore does in 1 shot, the Evi will match in one shot and melee, anything the Evi does in one shot and melee the Scimitar will match in 2 shots and 1 melee. (Give or take a couple of milliseconds.) The winner for killing 3 enemies one after the other in a clump, will be the Evi at the theoretical max of 2.5, the other two at 3 seconds give or take a few milliseconds.

Ps what time is 9.83 wouldn't that be 10.23? seconds making the Scimitar about 1 second slower then listed.

Edit : cool and informative vid though

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 07:17 .

[thisisme8]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Bah all this info is on what, page 15 or so
It's easy to keep track of how it works, anything the Claymore does in 1 shot, the Evi will match in one shot and melee, anything the Evi does in one shot and melee the Scimitar will match in 2 shots and 1 melee. (Give or take a couple of milliseconds.) The winner for killing 3 enemies one after the other in a clump, will be the Evi at the theoretical max of 2.5, the other two at 3 seconds give or take a few milliseconds.

Ps what time is 9.83 wouldn't that be 10.23? seconds making the Scimitar about 1 second slower then listed.

Edit : cool and informative vid though

It's still fun to see the numbers.  Especially since I know exactly how they perform in my hand, but the difference on paper is sometimes interesting to note.  The more you know.

[_Dannok1234]

I have to say it's pretty funny that the Katana is so good, that did actually surprise me, it pretty much means you can use any of the shotguns and play the same way and hardly notice it.

Edit: Assuming you are being accurate with your shots, if you play more fast an lose there is one obvious choice.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 07:28 .

[sinosleep]

Dannok1234 wrote...
Ps what time is 9.83 wouldn't that be 10.23? seconds making the Scimitar about 1 second slower then listed.

No, it's hundredths of a second. 

[_Dannok1234]

By the way, since you have an accurate timer going on there, how long does it actually take to do a melee hit?

[Sabresandiego]

I think everyone assumes the katana is bad since its the first gun you start with, and it you have no upgrades in the beginning of the game.

[Kronner]

Katana is decent shotty, but Evi is easily better as far as I am concerned and you can have her basically from the start too.

[sinosleep]

While mashing the melee key I got this


5.317 charge hits
5.667 full charge damage ends
5.950 melee animation starts
6.100 damage begins
6.550 damage complete animation complete
6.767 2nd animation begins
6.883 damage begins
7.350 damage complete animation complete

Modifié par sinosleep, 13 mars 2010 - 07:48 .

[_Dannok1234]

So it's probably 0.6 seconds with about 0.2 second delay between each hit. Althought I guess it can be clipped into when the damage starts, that way it fits into the times you got in your video.

Edit : cool and thanks

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 08:01 .

[sinosleep]

Melee damage is supposed to be the same regardless of defense right? If so, Klixen sure do have a hell of a whole lot more health than armor. You can get the armor off with 2 melee hits, but I can't melee the thing to death before it kills me, lol.

[_Dannok1234]

Just noticed something about RamenC's post that hit me as odd. Claymore was listed with 4800 damage after 3 seconds. Thats 1200 too much for 3 shots So it's only 3600.

Also interesting to add the 187.5(melee) damage to the numbers, as it really shows how close it is.
Scimitar with 5 shots and 5 melee's, 3ish seconds 3367,5 damage.
Eviscerator 3 shots and 4 melee 2,5ish seconds 3399,6 damage.
Katana 4 shots and 4 melee 3.6 ish sec 3390 damage.
Claymore 3 shots and no melee 3 seconds, or if 1,8 refire is correct then 3.6 sec for 3600.

Think that should be a fairly accurate representation of what you can feel in game as well.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 08:23 .

[_Dannok1234]

sinosleep wrote...

Melee damage is supposed to be the same regardless of defense right? If so, Klixen sure do have a hell of a whole lot more health than armor. You can get the armor off with 2 melee hits, but I can't melee the thing to death before it kills me, lol.

That is food for thought isn't it. Could that make Shredder ammo the best against Klixen? Now that would be a shocker.

Edit. disappointing as expected, main difference between ammo powers seem to be 1 melee hit that you can do anyway without really slowing you down.

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 08:48 .

[thisisme8]

Dannok1234 wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

Melee damage is supposed to be the same regardless of defense right? If so, Klixen sure do have a hell of a whole lot more health than armor. You can get the armor off with 2 melee hits, but I can't melee the thing to death before it kills me, lol.

That is food for thought isn't it. Could that make Shredder ammo the best against Klixen? Now that would be a shocker.

They aren't the only ones.  While Krogan may or or may not have equal amounts, that regen on Insanity is crazy.  Do not know what I would do without Incendiary, but Thane with the sniper + Shredder might not be so bad on Mordin's loyalty mish.  If only we could retrain them too.

[_Dannok1234]

I've come to really enjoy the Gibbed save editor just for that reason Thisisme8, well that and not having to do resources every time, I actually like the mechanic a lot, but on the n'th play through it does get old.

[Kronner]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Just noticed something about RamenC's post that hit me as odd. Claymore was listed with 4800 damage after 3 seconds. Thats 1200 too much for 3 shots So it's only 3600.

Also interesting to add the 187.5(melee) damage to the numbers, as it really shows how close it is.
Scimitar with 5 shots and 5 melee's, 3ish seconds 3367,5 damage.
Eviscerator 3 shots and 4 melee 2,5ish seconds 3399,6 damage.
Katana 4 shots and 4 melee 3.6 ish sec 3390 damage.
Claymore 3 shots and no melee 3 seconds, or if 1,8 refire is correct then 3.6 sec for 3600.

Think that should be a fairly accurate representation of what you can feel in game as well.

I disagree with this. While you may be able to shoot 3 times with Claymore, there is no way can you do 5 shots and 5 melees with Scimitar (or 4 shots and 4 melees with Katana) against 3 different foes in the same timeframe, just for the reason that it takes some time to get in melee range.

Modifié par Kronner, 13 mars 2010 - 09:01 .

[thisisme8]

Kronner wrote...

I disagree with this. While you may be able to shoot 3 times with Claymore, no way in hell can you do 5 shots and 5 melees with Scimitar (or 4 shots and 4 melees with Katana) against 3 different foes in the same timeframe, just for the reason that it takes some time to get in melee range.

Look at my post at the very bottom of the last page...  69, I think. 


Too many variables.  Way too many.  Gun in hand, that's how I make my final call for every weapon.  Numbers are great to know and help me make a sensible decision by providing me with under the hood mechanics, but gun in hand is the final call.  It's why I like the Avenger more than the Vindicator.  It just feels better to me and I do enough damage with it.

[Kronner]

thisisme8 wrote...

Look at my post at the very bottom of the last page...  69, I think. 


Too many variables.  Way too many.  Gun in hand, that's how I make my final call for every weapon.  Numbers are great to know and help me make a sensible decision by providing me with under the hood mechanics, but gun in hand is the final call.  It's why I like the Avenger more than the Vindicator.  It just feels better to me and I do enough damage with it.

Which is why I disagree with Dannok1234 about the shots+melee post calculation
Somehow BioWare made all weapons usable, which is very different from ME1 where basically everyone used Spectre Pistol because it was by far the best weapon in the game. Gotta love BioWare.

I also prefer Avenger btw, it looks cool and I only use it on my Sentinel,Adept and Engineer, so it is not even main thing I dish out damage with

Modifié par Kronner, 13 mars 2010 - 09:10 .

[RamsenC]

Dannok1234 wrote...

Just noticed something about RamenC's post that hit me as odd. Claymore was listed with 4800 damage after 3 seconds. Thats 1200 too much for 3 shots So it's only 3600.

Mistakes were made

I edited my post 

[thisisme8]

RamsenC wrote...

Dannok1234 wrote...

Just noticed something about RamenC's post that hit me as odd. Claymore was listed with 4800 damage after 3 seconds. Thats 1200 too much for 3 shots So it's only 3600.

Mistakes were made

I edited my post 

Forgiven.

[_Dannok1234]

Oh I totally agree that you will not be able to get the theoretical times very often in the game, but pure theoretical damage is darn close. Thats why I've come to favor the Evi over any other.

[_Dannok1234]

Okay here goes(deep breath), this post might make me look like a complete fool out to polish my epeen, but I find it amusing and would really like to see one of you super twitchy people try this.

Last night I broke my record on the first part of the collector station using the following setup/tactic.
Miranda+Jack squad power usage set to active, jack supplying Miranda with Warp ammo (didn't once use their powers manually). Active abilties used by Shep was only charge, weapons used were Eviscerator and Viper. I hit my timer 1-2 seconds before my first charge (first enemy). First Valve 29 seconds, 4th valve 1:16, 6th Valve 2:06 and last valve at 2:53.

The reason I find this amusing is that we're all at one point or another talking about how powerful Warp combo's and reave and such are. Yet it's only 6-8 seconds slower then Sabre's totally amazing super speed run. So maybe those abilities are not as incredible as we think, that or the shotguns+charge in themselves are also totally off the charts. (Also as long as you do everything correctly, you will barely take health damage, however the margin for error doing it this way is very small)

I gave a go at trying to fraps it, but as I discovered, with all settings at minimum and 1440x900 rather then my usual 1920*1200, my fps with Fraps not recording was 25-35 during fights, and with fraps recording 14-20 during fights, which makes it completely impossible. Doing a speed run with shotgun and charge only, requires you to make every single shot count. I used Sabre's video as "how to guide" when it came to fastest way to move through the level, just substituting every warp combo or reave with Charge and shotgun action.

Just to state it clearly. I do not think this is a superior way to play this mission compared to any other way to play, but for me it's the most rewarding/fun way to do it, as it adds to the difficulty. Nor do I think for a second that I'm better then any of the regulars posting here. I'm just an accountant with too much time to spend in front of a pc. (obviously)

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 09:28 .

[RamsenC]

I'll probably give a shotgun+charge run a shot, but I have the same problem with Fraps. It's not as bad as it is with you, but when the game hits 20 fps I don't play nearly as well.



The only part I really want warp explosions or heavy weapons is the last group since reinforcements come if you don't kill them fast enough.

[Sabresandiego]

I did make several mistakes in my speed run, so the time is definitely beatable but it wont be easy. I was getting faster times each attempt but I got sick of playing the same level so I settled with what I got. You have to remember not to skip any enemies especially the last fight.

[_Dannok1234]

RamsenC wrote...

I'll probably give a shotgun+charge run a shot, but I have the same problem with Fraps. It's not as bad as it is with you, but when the game hits 20 fps I don't play nearly as well.

The only part I really want warp explosions or heavy weapons is the last group since reinforcements come if you don't kill them fast enough.

They aren't a problem,  if you watch Sabre's vid, they come in from the start if you move forward rapidly and thats to your advantage, because then you can kill them two at a time rather then one by one. 

[_Dannok1234]

Sabresandiego wrote...

I did make several mistakes in my speed run, so the time is definitely beatable but it wont be easy. I was getting faster times each attempt but I got sick of playing the same level so I settled with what I got. You have to remember not to skip any enemies especially the last fight.

I have no doubt you'll find ways to improve, it was just that I found it funny that you can do the same without using powers that are considered super powerful. I really doubt I'll ever be able to match your fastest, I'm just not precise enough nor do I have the reactions for it. (nor the pc as it turns out)

This was more about Warp/reave vs Shotgun/charge being pretty much equal in terms of pure kill speed. Then again I'm easily amused.  

Edit: Haha, just remembered the char I used had 10 points in reave

Modifié par Dannok1234, 13 mars 2010 - 09:50 .