2583 réponses à ce sujet

[thisisme8]

I agree with Hraldgur. He summed it up pretty well.

[TheBellTolls4Me]

thisisme8 wrote...

I agree with Hraldgur. He summed it up pretty well.

So what's a good bonus power other than Reave? I try to avoid Reave like the plague. It made me start playing like a caster instead of a vanguard.

[Hraldgur]

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

 If I bring along Garrus, he'll keep overwriting Cryo when it's
actually needed.

The reason that AP Ammo is there is for times when Cryo is useless,
usually against Praetorians and scions (I'm looking at you, Horizon), cause I
consider those two to be two of the most difficult for most vanguards to take
down. It's not a matter of the extra damage; it's a matter of cryo being
useless in that situation, when you could have AP ammo to make it easier
to kill these things. I did consider reave, except I am not fond of it -
for one, it's so good I consider it to be cheap. For another, slam isn't
that useful, in my experience. It works on a single target when their defenses
are down and it might not even kill them. It's just not worth it.

As for Destroyer vs Champion - I'm running the Claymore, and with the
way it kills people, I can't see that bonus being nearly as useful as the
cooldown reduction. The cooldown reduction increases survivability by a
lot, without impacting your killing power very much.

 Yeah, that praetorian is Horizon a pain for vanguards. Aside from using
reave or bringing the cain along (not sure you can have it at this point
without NG+), the only thing you can do really is whittle it down with your SMG
and carnifex (though the grenade launcher helps too). Zaeed and Miranda help
too, as long as you make sure they take cover in corner somewhere and snipe/use
warp. 

Scion's are annoying, but take practice. Once you take out the swarm of
husks (use the big crates to shield yourself from the scions' shockwaves) its
just a matter of popping in and out of cover with correct timing.

Slam's not as powerful as reave (well, nothing is really) but is good
for the lolz and makes a decent pull substitute (3s cooldown ftw!)

 

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

So what's a good bonus power other than Reave? I try to avoid Reave like the plague. It made me start playing like a caster instead of a vanguard.

Slam is great fun and looks awesome, but not that useful as you said. Energy drain can be is okay, but too caster-ish for you i'm guessing, and it doesn't help vs armor-heavy enemies. I've recently been experimenting with Inferno grenade - damage isn't awesome but it looks cool, and it fits my view of (my) vanguard as a brutal, CQC, room-by-room assault specialist. 

If none of these are for you, warp ammo can be a fun alternative (i hate using the squad version via jack), but like others have said in the thread, vanguards don't really need a bonus power - people generally go with either reave for power gaming, or whatever seems fun (which is ultimately the most important thing)

Modifié par Hraldgur, 29 mars 2010 - 11:12 .

[thisisme8]

You can always just take Throw. It's a great power.

[Kronner]

thisisme8 wrote...

You can always just take Throw. It's a great power.

How can you get Throw as a bonus?

[TheBellTolls4Me]

Hraldgur wrote...

Slam is great fun and looks awesome, but not that useful as you said. Energy drain can be is okay, but too caster-ish for you i'm guessing, and it doesn't help vs armor-heavy enemies. I've recently been experimenting with Inferno grenade - damage isn't awesome but it looks cool, and it fits my view of (my) vanguard as a brutal, CQC, room-by-room assault specialist. 

If none of these are for you, warp ammo can be a fun alternative (i hate using the squad version via jack), but like others have said in the thread, vanguards don't really need a bonus power - people generally go with either reave for power gaming, or whatever seems fun (which is ultimately the most important thing)

Don't get me wrong - I love casting classes (the sentinel is my second favorite class), but I don't believe that the vanguard should be played in that way. I'm kind of trying to avoid casting with the vanguard as much as possible, hence my leaning towards the ammo powers.

I know it's a casting ability, but functionally, how good is dominate on a vanguard? I could see it being useful - distract enemies, then charge them.

I'm tempted to make a casting vanguard build, focused around Shockwave and Pull, just for the hell of it. I'd do the run on casual or normal, probably, but it'd be amazing to screw around with.

[thisisme8]

Kronner wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

You can always just take Throw. It's a great power.

How can you get Throw as a bonus?

You can't, but he wanted to know what bonus power he should take and I am simply suggesting he can take Throw, a power he already has.

I know it sucks that you have to put 3 points into Shockwave, but at the same time, "What bonus power should I take" doesn't say much because I have no idea what his playstyle is.  Besides, Haldgur already recommended Slam.

[thisisme8]

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Hraldgur wrote...

Slam is great fun and looks awesome, but not that useful as you said. Energy drain can be is okay, but too caster-ish for you i'm guessing, and it doesn't help vs armor-heavy enemies. I've recently been experimenting with Inferno grenade - damage isn't awesome but it looks cool, and it fits my view of (my) vanguard as a brutal, CQC, room-by-room assault specialist. 

If none of these are for you, warp ammo can be a fun alternative (i hate using the squad version via jack), but like others have said in the thread, vanguards don't really need a bonus power - people generally go with either reave for power gaming, or whatever seems fun (which is ultimately the most important thing)

Don't get me wrong - I love casting classes (the sentinel is my second favorite class), but I don't believe that the vanguard should be played in that way. I'm kind of trying to avoid casting with the vanguard as much as possible, hence my leaning towards the ammo powers.

I know it's a casting ability, but functionally, how good is dominate on a vanguard? I could see it being useful - distract enemies, then charge them.

I'm tempted to make a casting vanguard build, focused around Shockwave and Pull, just for the hell of it. I'd do the run on casual or normal, probably, but it'd be amazing to screw around with.

Go to the OP and check out the Painseeker build and vids.  That might suit your fancy for a "different" kind of build.

[TheBellTolls4Me]

thisisme8 wrote...

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Hraldgur wrote...

Slam is great fun and looks awesome, but not that useful as you said. Energy drain can be is okay, but too caster-ish for you i'm guessing, and it doesn't help vs armor-heavy enemies. I've recently been experimenting with Inferno grenade - damage isn't awesome but it looks cool, and it fits my view of (my) vanguard as a brutal, CQC, room-by-room assault specialist. 

If none of these are for you, warp ammo can be a fun alternative (i hate using the squad version via jack), but like others have said in the thread, vanguards don't really need a bonus power - people generally go with either reave for power gaming, or whatever seems fun (which is ultimately the most important thing)

Don't get me wrong - I love casting classes (the sentinel is my second favorite class), but I don't believe that the vanguard should be played in that way. I'm kind of trying to avoid casting with the vanguard as much as possible, hence my leaning towards the ammo powers.

I know it's a casting ability, but functionally, how good is dominate on a vanguard? I could see it being useful - distract enemies, then charge them.

I'm tempted to make a casting vanguard build, focused around Shockwave and Pull, just for the hell of it. I'd do the run on casual or normal, probably, but it'd be amazing to screw around with.

Go to the OP and check out the Painseeker build and vids.  That might suit your fancy for a "different" kind of build.

I like the painseeker build. I'll give it a shot and let ya know how it goes.

I'd record video, except I'm playing console :/ Yeah.

Also, the vanguard doesn't have throw. The vanguard has pull, with two points into shockwave.

Modifié par TheBellTolls4Me, 29 mars 2010 - 11:33 .

[Kronner]

thisisme8 wrote...

Kronner wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

You can always just take Throw. It's a great power.

How can you get Throw as a bonus?

You can't, but he wanted to know what bonus power he should take and I am simply suggesting he can take Throw, a power he already has.

I know it sucks that you have to put 3 points into Shockwave, but at the same time, "What bonus power should I take" doesn't say much because I have no idea what his playstyle is.  Besides, Haldgur already recommended Slam.

aha, I thought I might be missing something for a while. Throw is great

[greghorvath]

I spent about 3 hours trying to get through the last section of Korlus (before meeting Okeer) as the second henchman mission in an insanity + playthrough. It was hell. I pretty much followed the "charge and die instantly" method. In the end I just could not take it and went for "only charge the last enemy" tactic. Pull was a godsend. I either need more vanguard practice or simply just suck at it...

Modifié par greghorvath, 29 mars 2010 - 11:41 .

[TheBellTolls4Me]

Ok, I'm running a painseeker vanguard with slam as my bonus power. It's working better than I thought, but then again, I'm playing on normal just casually.

[thisisme8]

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Hraldgur wrote...

Slam is great fun and looks awesome, but not that useful as you said. Energy drain can be is okay, but too caster-ish for you i'm guessing, and it doesn't help vs armor-heavy enemies. I've recently been experimenting with Inferno grenade - damage isn't awesome but it looks cool, and it fits my view of (my) vanguard as a brutal, CQC, room-by-room assault specialist. 

If none of these are for you, warp ammo can be a fun alternative (i hate using the squad version via jack), but like others have said in the thread, vanguards don't really need a bonus power - people generally go with either reave for power gaming, or whatever seems fun (which is ultimately the most important thing)

Don't get me wrong - I love casting classes (the sentinel is my second favorite class), but I don't believe that the vanguard should be played in that way. I'm kind of trying to avoid casting with the vanguard as much as possible, hence my leaning towards the ammo powers.

I know it's a casting ability, but functionally, how good is dominate on a vanguard? I could see it being useful - distract enemies, then charge them.

I'm tempted to make a casting vanguard build, focused around Shockwave and Pull, just for the hell of it. I'd do the run on casual or normal, probably, but it'd be amazing to screw around with.

Go to the OP and check out the Painseeker build and vids.  That might suit your fancy for a "different" kind of build.

I like the painseeker build. I'll give it a shot and let ya know how it goes.

I'd record video, except I'm playing console :/ Yeah.

Also, the vanguard doesn't have throw. The vanguard has pull, with two points into shockwave.

Right...  meant Pull.  So sorry.  Been playing my Sentinel so I'm thinking Throw! 

[thisisme8]

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Ok, I'm running a painseeker vanguard with slam as my bonus power. It's working better than I thought, but then again, I'm playing on normal just casually.

What's your build?  Just curious as to what you are sacrificing for Slam.

Edit:  Or are you just putting what's left over into Slam?

Modifié par thisisme8, 29 mars 2010 - 07:15 .

[Nozaro]

My opinion on Slam as a bonus power http://social.biowar...1080/81#1933328

I dont put any points into it, except the 1 automatically assigned point and its useful right up till i respec into pull after i have gotten Heavy Charge, Champion, Inferno Ammo and Squad Cryo Ammo , which is basically most of the game.

Like i said in that post in my opinion its probably the best 1 point bonus power you can use on a vanguard early game (not NG+ since you would have pull from your previous play through) because it lets you set up warp explosions from level 1. I am not a huge fan of warp explosions and dont use them that often , but for enemies on unchargable bridges and ledges and other areas its nice having access to warp explosions.

I am not nearly as knowledgable as alot of the other vanguards on this thread about the class this is just my opinion on the bonus power and getting the most bang for your buck out of it specialy early game which is when you need it most. Once i have all the powers maxed that i want i respec and dont put any points in the bonus power,  i end up just putting the rest of the points in pull because for me at that point in the game the bonus power becomes redundant.

Modifié par Nozaro, 29 mars 2010 - 08:14 .

[TheBellTolls4Me]

thisisme8 wrote...

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Ok, I'm running a painseeker vanguard with slam as my bonus power. It's working better than I thought, but then again, I'm playing on normal just casually.

What's your build?  Just curious as to what you are sacrificing for Slam.

Edit:  Or are you just putting what's left over into Slam?

I'll likely be putting only one point into slam. Level one slam, I'm using for disabling. It makes it easier to get up to a single target and it has half the cooldown of charge. If I had to get rid of anything, I'd forgo both ammo powers and max Shockwave and Slam. Pull is just too useful to let go of.

[TheBestClass]

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Ok, I'm running a painseeker vanguard with slam as my bonus power. It's working better than I thought, but then again, I'm playing on normal just casually.

What's your build?  Just curious as to what you are sacrificing for Slam.

Edit:  Or are you just putting what's left over into Slam?

I'll likely be putting only one point into slam. Level one slam, I'm using for disabling. It makes it easier to get up to a single target and it has half the cooldown of charge. If I had to get rid of anything, I'd forgo both ammo powers and max Shockwave and Slam. Pull is just too useful to let go of.

I've been considering taking Pull instead of Reave lately. I understand the usefulness of the power and I think it's stun effect is much better than that of Reave but those 3 points in Shockwave are a real annoyance and I'd rather not take points out of Inferno or Squad Cryo. Is it really worth it?

[TheBellTolls4Me]

TheBestclass wrote...

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Ok, I'm running a painseeker vanguard with slam as my bonus power. It's working better than I thought, but then again, I'm playing on normal just casually.

What's your build?  Just curious as to what you are sacrificing for Slam.

Edit:  Or are you just putting what's left over into Slam?

I'll likely be putting only one point into slam. Level one slam, I'm using for disabling. It makes it easier to get up to a single target and it has half the cooldown of charge. If I had to get rid of anything, I'd forgo both ammo powers and max Shockwave and Slam. Pull is just too useful to let go of.

I've been considering taking Pull instead of Reave lately. I understand the usefulness of the power and I think it's stun effect is much better than that of Reave but those 3 points in Shockwave are a real annoyance and I'd rather not take points out of Inferno or Squad Cryo. Is it really worth it?

I'd say it is. Pull field is great for croud control, and it comboes well with area charge, if you take it.

EDIT: Just ran into a weird glitch - I charged, and right as I hit the opponent, I was able to use shockwave without waiting for the cooldown. Saved me from dying, for sure.

Modifié par TheBellTolls4Me, 29 mars 2010 - 10:27 .

[dskylark]

Do you guys find that +10% Storm speed for your boots to be practical?



I feel +10% Health or 3% Shields have a slight inch of a difference more. Where as +10% storm speed would only be a centimeter difference.

[thisisme8]

dskylark wrote...

Do you guys find that +10% Storm speed for your boots to be practical?

I feel +10% Health or 3% Shields have a slight inch of a difference more. Where as +10% storm speed would only be a centimeter difference.

I think the benefit from the Storm Speed legs are lost on a Vanguard since their class Power is the best method of closing the distance that you have.  Especially when there are +10% health, +10% heavy weapons ammo, or +3% weapon damage shield legs out there.

Modifié par thisisme8, 30 mars 2010 - 08:38 .

[dskylark]

Thanks, it was just weird because I saw a lot of Vanguards lists their load out with Storm Speed bonus. It kind of made sense because of all the running to cover you would do after a charge, but I felt the 10% wasnt enough to justify it though.

[Relix28]

This is one very awesome guide for my beloved rushdown class. Thnx guys.

[Baskervore]

Relix28 wrote...

This is one very awesome guide for my beloved rushdown class. Thnx guys.

Agreed!

[TheBellTolls4Me]

Currently at Tuchanka on my painseeker vanguard. My current skills are 4 area charge, 4 champion, 2 incendiary, 1 cryo, 1 shockwave, and 1 slam. Yeah, I'm spread pretty thin, but that's because Shockwave and Slam are useful, even at the first level. So is Cryo. My party members tend to be Zaeed/Thane along with either Miranda or Grunt. Grunt for the survivability, and Miranda for removing defenses. I haven't decided which one I prefer, but I'm leaning towards Grunt.

[thisisme8]

TheBellTolls4Me wrote...

Currently at Tuchanka on my painseeker vanguard. My current skills are 4 area charge, 4 champion, 2 incendiary, 1 cryo, 1 shockwave, and 1 slam. Yeah, I'm spread pretty thin, but that's because Shockwave and Slam are useful, even at the first level. So is Cryo. My party members tend to be Zaeed/Thane along with either Miranda or Grunt. Grunt for the survivability, and Miranda for removing defenses. I haven't decided which one I prefer, but I'm leaning towards Grunt.

One thing to remember about the Painseeker is that Squaddie cooldown and area effect are better for you than power.  So abilities like Concussive Blast, Area Throw etc. are good.