2583 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

ajayatfringefx wrote...

Thresher Maw wrote...

For some time now the Claymore/Scimitar/Eviscerator have all been considered fairly equal. I wonder, does the new Aegis armor change that at all? With the obscene amount of melee damage on it, I wonder if perhaps it causes the Eviscerator to pull ahead of the other two shotguns, given that Eviscerator users rely on melee damage more than users of the other shotguns.

Not really. 2 well placed scimitar shots (will equal to the same speed as one evi shot) can outright kill grunt enemies. Anything that doesn't get killed can eat the plates from the kestrel armor.

That is not true.
After you Charge, your first shot goes off immedietaly (1 shot from any gun), by the time you will fire 2nd shot with Scimitar, Evi will have already fired the first shot for some time (0.8 second I think).

[ajayatfringefx]

Kronner wrote...

ajayatfringefx wrote...

Thresher Maw wrote...

For some time now the Claymore/Scimitar/Eviscerator have all been considered fairly equal. I wonder, does the new Aegis armor change that at all? With the obscene amount of melee damage on it, I wonder if perhaps it causes the Eviscerator to pull ahead of the other two shotguns, given that Eviscerator users rely on melee damage more than users of the other shotguns.

Not really. 2 well placed scimitar shots (will equal to the same speed as one evi shot) can outright kill grunt enemies. Anything that doesn't get killed can eat the plates from the kestrel armor.

That is not true.
After you Charge, your first shot goes off immedietaly (1 shot from any gun), by the time you will fire 2nd shot with Scimitar, Evi will have already fired the first shot for some time (0.8 second I think).

Oh ok, I didn't really account for charge's immediate shot.

[Jedi07]

Error again*

Modifié par Jedi07, 14 juillet 2010 - 08:20 .

[Jedi07]

I was wondering if there's anyone here who plays the 360 version and could upload a video walkthrough, beating the Collector Vessel on Insanity.

Watching all those videos showing the PC version makes me want to buy that version,  but since my god damn laptop will probably overheat due too manny hours of ME2...I'd consider not buying it until I upgrade my old desktop. =P

Modifié par Jedi07, 14 juillet 2010 - 08:26 .

[Freakaz0idx]

I tried my Insanity new game+ Vanguard and it's damn near impossible to stay true to the vanguard playstyle and survive. Everything was going well in Mordin's mission till I got to the fans/generators. The rocket launcher Vorchas auto killed Miranda/Jacob every time and the Krogan and Vorcha near the second generators were too much to handle. The the fact that they were fully upgraded made it unbearable. I just quit.

[pcrisipm]

the big problem with the vanguard are the gameplay glitches.

countless times the charge fails -- that frustrating and infuriating "can't reach the target" -- and then there's the collector platform bug where the visual effects of a successful charge show up but shepard stays on the spot.

and then the shotguns just don't cut it. sure, they pack a punch, but no way near a one-shot kill. the claymore is more powerful, but up close i need 2 shots to get a kill on a collector drone, for instance -- with the window sniper rifle it's a headshot.

vanguard is a pain in the ass until one gets level 4 on most powers, then i'd say it's frustrating.
it's not that the class isn't exciting to play, quite the opposite -- it's very satisfying to charge from enemy to enemy and leave a bunch of charred corpses behind (the effect of shotgun + inferno ammo). the frustration comes from dying way too many times because of playing the vanguard in a vanguard style and the game bugs not letting you.

Modifié par pcrisipm, 17 juillet 2010 - 08:33 .

[Kronner]

pcrisipm wrote...

the big problem with the vanguard are the gameplay glitches.

countless times the charge fails -- that frustrating and infuriating "can't reach the target" -- and then there's the collector platform bug where the visual effects of a successful charge show up but shepard stays on the spot.

and then the shotguns just don't cut it. sure, they pack a punch, but no way near a one-shot kill. the claymore is more powerful, but up close i need 2 shots to get a kill on a collector drone, for instance -- with the window sniper rifle it's a headshot.

vanguard is a pain in the ass until one gets level 4 on most powers, then i'd say it's frustrating.
it's not that the class isn't exciting to play, quite the opposite -- it's very satisfying to charge from enemy to enemy and leave a bunch of charred corpses behind (the effect of shotgun + inferno ammo). the frustration comes from dying way too many times because of playing the vanguard in a vanguard style and the game bugs not letting you.

Gotta strongly disagree with you. Charge rarely ever fails. Claymore one shots ANY regular troop (drones too) from melee range, Eviscerator is one shot and a melee, Scimitar is 2 shots and melee or 3 shots. (Insanity, level 30)
All you need is Heavy Charge and Champion. Rest is just a bonus.

Modifié par Kronner, 17 juillet 2010 - 09:23 .

[pcrisipm]

well, Kronner, i must admit i'm only at level 20 (insanity). this is one of my last classes to try -- still haven't played as sentinel either.
like i said, it's lots of fun to play vanguard, but sometimes feels like i die unnecessarily. maybe it's a matter of high expectations -- i actually expected the vanguard to be as powerful close-up as the sniper from afar, and i don't feel that.
i'm right now playing the disabled collector ship, on the way out after the platforms bit -- i actually got stuck on the platforms and replayed the mission to change teammates. i remember that by now as infiltrator i'd have the widow and cleaned the platforms with little more that as many headshots as there were enemy heads -- except for the scions.

Modifié par pcrisipm, 17 juillet 2010 - 11:47 .

[Kronner]

pcrisipm wrote...

well, Kronner, i must admit i'm only at level 20 (insanity). this is one of my last classes to try -- still haven't played as sentinel either.
like i said, it's lots of fun to play vanguard, but sometimes feels like i die unnecessarily. maybe it's a matter of high expectations -- i actually expected the vanguard to be as powerful close-up as the sniper from afar, and i don't feel that.
i'm right now playing the disabled collector ship, on the way out after the platforms bit -- i actually got stuck on the platforms and replayed the mission to change teammates. i remember that by now as infiltrator i'd have the widow and cleaned the platforms with little more that as many headshots as there were enemy heads -- except for the scions.

Level 20 .. that means you should deal even more relative damage (enemies are weaker when you are level 20, not 30),  if you have at least some Shotgun uprades researched. Are you sure you are shooting from melee range? After you charge get as close to the enemy as you can, then one shot from Claymore guarantees a kill, and it does not even have to be a headshot.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

Gotta strongly disagree with you. Charge rarely ever fails.

It doesnt work as it should on the platforms.Thats for sure.Because its impossible to charge from one platform to the other as it should be.I just end at the end of the platform where i try to charge(they are "connected" then).So i have to moove to the platform where i want to charge enemies and took a loot bullets doing it this way. The collector platforms are clearly bugged.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Gotta strongly disagree with you. Charge rarely ever fails.

It doesnt work as it should on the platforms.Thats for sure.Because its impossible to charge from one platform to the other as it should be.I just end at the end of the platform where i try to charge(they are "connected" then).So i have to moove to the platform where i want to charge enemies and took a loot bullets doing it this way. The collector platforms are clearly bugged.

Yes, it does not, but since I know it, I do not attempt to Charge when I know it is not going to work. All you need to do is wait for the platforms to be connected, get out of cover and charge. Works every time.

[pcrisipm]

the platforms are buggy for sure, but you get used to it i guess. you stop trying to charge from behind cover, even though that's what you're used to.

as to the shotgun damage, with the claymore what i do is charge + claymore shot + melee. the claymore certainly does away with the barrier and most of the health bar, but it needs the melee hit for a kill.
with the fire ammo on the claymore shot is enough, though -- it leaves the collector 'simmering' in the flames to death.

now, Konner made a good point there -- that "since i know". the thing is i don't know (or didn't) and when charge failed i tried again and again, thinking maybe i'm doing something wrong. eventually i figured it was a game bug and, well, played around it.
the vanguard feels like it has a steeper learning curve. the vanguard style is very risky, closing in on the enemy, sometimes in the middle of a bunch of enemies really, and a tiny mistake can get you killed.
knowing the quirks and bugs of the game can make a difference.

on a slightly side note, one thing that annoys me is not being able to charge into the odd guy on some balcony or elevated spot. when i played as other classes that never really felt strange since there was no way to physically get there, i couldn't walk there, so i kill them from where i stand.
but the vanguard can get there -- and i really feel compelled to charge those guys.
i even admit that maybe that's for the player's protection, since there would be no way to get out of there, but it still annoys me profoundly. they are like begging to be charged...

Modifié par pcrisipm, 18 juillet 2010 - 08:13 .

[Kronner]

pcrisipm wrote...

the platforms are buggy for sure, but you get used to it i guess. you stop trying to charge from behind cover, even though that's what you're used to.

as to the shotgun damage, with the claymore what i do is charge + claymore shot + melee. the claymore certainly does away with the barrier and most of the health bar, but it needs the melee hit for a kill.
with the fire ammo on the claymore shot is enough, though -- it leaves the collector 'simmering' in the flames to death.

now, Konner made a good point there -- that "since i know". the thing is i don't know (or didn't) and when charge failed i tried again and again, thinking maybe i'm doing something wrong. eventually i figured it was a game bug and, well, played around it.
the vanguard feels like it has a steeper learning curve. the vanguard style is very risky, closing in on the enemy, sometimes in the middle of a bunch of enemies really, and a tiny mistake can get you killed.
knowing the quirks and bugs of the game can make a difference.

on a slightly side note, one thing that annoys me is not being able to charge into the odd guy on some balcony or elevated spot. when i played as other classes that never really felt strange since there was no way to physically get there, i couldn't walk there, so i kill them from where i stand.
but the vanguard can get there -- and i really feel compelled to charge those guys.
i even admit that maybe that's for the player's protection, since there would be no way to get out of there, but it still annoys me profoundly. they are like begging to be charged...

Interesting. Could you post a video?
I know for sure that when I was doing a level 30 NG+ Insanity playthrough, 2/5 Shotgun damage and Shield Piercing
upgrade was good enough so I could one shot any regular enemy (drones, troopers etc.), aim for the chest so that all pellets hit the enemy.

Modifié par Kronner, 18 juillet 2010 - 09:43 .

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...


Yes, it does not, but since I know it, I do not attempt to Charge when I know it is not going to work. All you need to do is wait for the platforms to be connected, get out of cover and charge. Works every time.

Its a bug that bioware should fix.I think we could agree on that.Its not really good that in one of the most difficult fights the class ablility dont work like it should. And charge fails many even in regular fights.Enemie is just 2-3 meters away,i have a clear line of sight,and still got the cannot reach the target message.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...


Yes, it does not, but since I know it, I do not attempt to Charge when I know it is not going to work. All you need to do is wait for the platforms to be connected, get out of cover and charge. Works every time.

Its a bug that bioware should fix.I think we could agree on that.Its not really good that in one of the most difficult fights the class ablility dont work like it should. And charge fails many even in regular fights.Enemie is just 2-3 meters away,i have a clear line of sight,and still got the cannot reach the target message.

Yes, Charge is not 100% working, but to be honest I made at least 8 or 9 Vanguard playthroughs and Charge fails that occured when I had clear line of sight could be counted on one hand of veteran woodcutter. Ever since I started using the Mass Effect 2 affinity fix (for AMD64 CPU) I have yet to see Charge fail. Too bad we have to lock on the enemy to Charge though, but I understand why they had to make it that way.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...


Yes, it does not, but since I know it, I do not attempt to Charge when I know it is not going to work. All you need to do is wait for the platforms to be connected, get out of cover and charge. Works every time.

Its a bug that bioware should fix.I think we could agree on that.Its not really good that in one of the most difficult fights the class ablility dont work like it should. And charge fails many even in regular fights.Enemie is just 2-3 meters away,i have a clear line of sight,and still got the cannot reach the target message.

Yes, Charge is not 100% working, but to be honest I made at least 8 or 9 Vanguard playthroughs and Charge fails that occured when I had clear line of sight could be counted on one hand of veteran woodcutter. Ever since I started using the Mass Effect 2 affinity fix (for AMD64 CPU) I have yet to see Charge fail. Too bad we have to lock on the enemy to Charge though, but I understand why they had to make it that way.

Thats interesting for sure. I play on the xbox and there isnt a mission where i dont get the "Cannot reach the target " message.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Thats interesting for sure. I play on the xbox and there isnt a mission where i dont get the "Cannot reach the target " message.

I have PC version so no idea about xbox, but when Charge fails, it really sucks. Hopefully something they improve in ME3.

Modifié par Kronner, 19 juillet 2010 - 04:20 .

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Thats interesting for sure. I play on the xbox and there isnt a mission where i dont get the "Cannot reach the target " message.

I have PC version so no idea about xbox, but when Charge fails, it really sucks. Hopefully something they improve in ME3.

I got like 3-4 charge fails per mission even with a clear line of sight.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

I got like 3-4 charge fails per mission even with a clear line of sight.

Well, that's brutal then
I have not got that many in my entire playthrough.

[pcrisipm]

i'd say that's a bit too much, but it's not that unusual for a charge to fail. on trying again it tends to work or using the powers menu, since most of the times i do it using the shortcut keys.
nevertheless, the time wasted in charging-failing-charging is valuable.

as for the damage, i went back to the savegame for the disabled colelctor ship and this is the best i can do -- http://www.youtube.c...?v=mJWluJHs7KM.
sorry if the image's not the best.

Modifié par pcrisipm, 19 juillet 2010 - 06:02 .

[Kronner]

pcrisipm wrote...

i'd say that's a bit too much, but it's not that unusual for a charge to fail. on trying again it tends to work or using the powers menu, since most of the times i do it using the shortcut keys.
nevertheless, the time wasted in charging-failing-charging is valuable.

as for the damage, i went back to the savegame for the disabled colelctor ship and this is the best i can do -- http://www.youtube.c...?v=mJWluJHs7KM.
sorry if the image's not the best.

Why aren't you using any ammo? Get Inferno ammo as soon as possible, it is very handy when attacking a group of organic enemies.
Heavy Charge is imho better than Area Charge, it gives you some time to line up chest/head shot.
Also, Miranda can provide 15% damage bonus, which can be significant. You also seem to have only 1 or 2 shotgun upgrades (since you do not have the extra ammo upgrade).
Guardians take 2 shots, or one shot and few melee attacks, but Drones can be one shotted at will, just make sure you are in melee range after you Charge (you need to move forward after you Charge THEN shoot)

[btthegeek]

Kronner wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

I got like 3-4 charge fails per mission even with a clear line of sight.

Well, that's brutal then
I have not got that many in my entire playthrough.

I just started a 360 vanguard playthrough and I noticed it mainly on the first collector ship mission.  On that mission, the platforms move, stop, then move again, so when I got a "can't lock on," it might have been because the platforms were not in their final position.  I noticed also throughout the game that the "chargee" has to be either leaning or fully out of cover to target them for a charge.  Not sure if that's it, but that's what I've seen.

Gotta say though, I think I converted to vanguard from now on.  I've played all other classes but an engineer, and vaguard just effing rocks.

[tonnactus]

Kronner wrote...

Also, Miranda can provide 15% damage bonus, which can be significant.

Really? I played as a vanguard with and without miranda.It never make a significant difference.

[ajayatfringefx]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Also, Miranda can provide 15% damage bonus, which can be significant.

Really? I played as a vanguard with and without miranda.It never make a significant difference.

It does slightly make a difference, but 15% of say 400 damage might just one shot enemies. It kind of depends, but I could care less to bring miranda along because I rely on my squad to have a decent offensive punch.

[Kronner]

tonnactus wrote...

Kronner wrote...

Also, Miranda can provide 15% damage bonus, which can be significant.

Really? I played as a vanguard with and without miranda.It never make a significant difference.

It does not always make difference, but it can be the decisive factor for one shotting enemies at times (until you get the upgrades and good armor parts).