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Vanguard tips and tricks on Hardcore/Insanity - Revised Edition 1.2


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#2251
The Spamming Troll

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Direksone wrote...

Yes but I have heard Fortification does not get cancelled when you Charge, Barrier and Geth Shield do. By the by, whats the exact difference between barrier and geth shield? True that Fortification does not benefit, however if its true that it does not get cancelled it might be a better one. Fortification>Charge>Gun em down and you're sure you can take a hit since Fortification is on. Otherwise its Charge>Barrier>Gun em down which might pose some problems imo.



how come youd take a bonus power like fortification or barrier when an upgraded medigel basically does the same thing???

#2252
Harley_Dude

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Kronner do you get the 50% geth shield boost as well? I was trying out barrier and it seemed pointless because it gets cancelled. I used reave on my insanity soldier but I could use medi-gel instead of relying on reave's healing benefit.

#2253
Kronner

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The Harley Dude wrote...

Kronner do you get the 50% geth shield boost as well? I was trying out barrier and it seemed pointless because it gets cancelled. I used reave on my insanity soldier but I could use medi-gel instead of relying on reave's healing benefit.


I usually take Geth Shield on my Soldier (only 1 point in it though). Barrier gets cancelled when a) you lose the whole defense (bonus barrier + whatever you have - shield on a combat class or barrier on a biotic class) B) the time runs out, either 60 seconds (Heavy) or 180 (Improved). It does make a difference when you for example Charge a YMIR mech, with Barrier you can fire off one or two extra shots. Or when you shoot on distant enemies you can't Charge and don't want to take cover or use medigel.

#2254
Thresher Maw

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Does anyone have an opinion regarding the Viper VS the Mattock? I've always picked sniper rifle training, but I wonder if the firepower pack makes assault rifle training a wiser choice.

#2255
Kronner

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Thresher Maw wrote...

Does anyone have an opinion regarding the Viper VS the Mattock? I've always picked sniper rifle training, but I wonder if the firepower pack makes assault rifle training a wiser choice.


I always pick Claymore, but if I couldn't I'd take the Mattock, it does more damage and has damage bonuses for various ranges (like all weapons but Snipers). It also has no recoil at all.

#2256
Kacynski

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I usually also pick the Claymore, but I found recently, that I actually handle the Evi better than the Claymore. So I'm just now starting a new Vanguard (typing this during the game intro), to see how the Mattock will fare on a Vanguard. Tested it on my soldier and I was pretty impressed.

But then, I rarely use anything beside my Shotty, so there may not be much of a difference.

Also related to the new weapons DLC, did anyone manage to put the GPS to good use on the Vanguard? I couldn't do with it at all. It is a great improvement on all shotgun wielding squadmates and it was a good addition to my soldier, but with my Vanguard ... meh, it su***ed for me.

#2257
Harley_Dude

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Kronner wrote...

The Harley Dude wrote...

Kronner do you get the 50% geth shield boost as well? I was trying out barrier and it seemed pointless because it gets cancelled. I used reave on my insanity soldier but I could use medi-gel instead of relying on reave's healing benefit.


I usually take Geth Shield on my Soldier (only 1 point in it though). Barrier gets cancelled when a) you lose the whole defense (bonus barrier + whatever you have - shield on a combat class or barrier on a biotic class) B) the time runs out, either 60 seconds (Heavy) or 180 (Improved). It does make a difference when you for example Charge a YMIR mech, with Barrier you can fire off one or two extra shots. Or when you shoot on distant enemies you can't Charge and don't want to take cover or use medigel.


I was trying out a Vangaurd on Insanity and found I really needed some long distance skill to conserve ammo. The barrier didn't help much so I think I'll try reave on the next few missions.

#2258
Kronner

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The Harley Dude wrote...

I was trying out a Vangaurd on Insanity and found I really needed some long distance skill to conserve ammo. The barrier didn't help much so I think I'll try reave on the next few missions.


Do you have the Kasumi DLC?  The Locust SMG can easily handle any long distance encounters imho.

#2259
Kronner

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Kacynski wrote...

I usually also pick the Claymore, but I found recently, that I actually handle the Evi better than the Claymore. So I'm just now starting a new Vanguard (typing this during the game intro), to see how the Mattock will fare on a Vanguard. Tested it on my soldier and I was pretty impressed.
But then, I rarely use anything beside my Shotty, so there may not be much of a difference.
Also related to the new weapons DLC, did anyone manage to put the GPS to good use on the Vanguard? I couldn't do with it at all. It is a great improvement on all shotgun wielding squadmates and it was a good addition to my soldier, but with my Vanguard ... meh, it su***ed for me.


GPS is nice gun, can be used very effectively. Claymore one shots regular enemies, but has slightly worse rate of fire (with the reload trick obviously), Eviscerator does slightly more damage and has basically the same RoF and Scimitar has much better rate of fire. Honestly, GPS is not that good up close. Great for Adepts, Sentinels, Infiltrators and Soldiers, but Vanguard? Nah, still love good old trio of Claymore/Evi/Scimitar!

Modifié par Kronner, 10 août 2010 - 06:02 .


#2260
Arhka

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New strategy forum up.
Unity Strategy Forums.

Moved most of my stuff there, and I invite you guys to join and put content there as well. It's a bit buggy atm, but after 24 hours or so, it should be running smoothly again. 

Modifié par Arhka, 11 août 2010 - 12:01 .


#2261
Schneidend

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This thread has 91 pages? What part of "charge a lot, shotgun, melee, repeat" is difficult to understand?



Vanguard's an awesome, fun class, but it's not exactly difficult to play once you understand that Heavy Charge and your shotgun are your bread & butter.

#2262
sinosleep

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Schneidend wrote...

This thread has 91 pages? What part of "charge a lot, shotgun, melee, repeat" is difficult to understand?

Vanguard's an awesome, fun class, but it's not exactly difficult to play once you understand that Heavy Charge and your shotgun are your bread & butter.

Once upon a time many many moons ago vanguards were widely considered the weakest class in the game and charge one of the most useless talents. I'm just sayin......

#2263
Direksone

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tonnactus wrote...

Direksone wrote...


Once again: Fortification and Samara and Miranda to strip away defenses.


Only take miranda if you like the weapon damage boost.For stripping defenses garrus is far better when it comes to shields.
(power damage bonus in his passive) Or zaeed with squad disruptor. For armor mordin is the best. Samara for dealing with barriers after she had reave.(better cooldown)

If you have kasumi,shadow strike is the best defense stripping power against shields and barriers.


Miranda covers everything the best, squad boosts and strips shields and barriers through Warp and Overload, for that reason I always bring her with me regardless of the class that I play. Currently using Mordin on my Sentinel to strip away Armor and CCing with Cryo Blast but I want a different party member. I figured Samara could be nice with an AoE Reave and me using Pull or her using an occasional Pull for me to Charge. I did some reading and someone said I needed someone that can Pull, though I do doubt it, it does seem nice when I think about it, having someone pull a mob and I biotic charge.. I do have Kasumi but I am not fond of her, she just spams Shadow Strike meh.

Also you were talking about squad disruptor blabla, I will be using Squad Cryo or Inferno, so I do not need a party member which supports with Ammo like Garrus.

#2264
Thresher Maw

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Direksone wrote...

Miranda covers everything the best, squad boosts and strips shields and barriers through Warp and Overload, for that reason I always bring her with me regardless of the class that I play. Currently using Mordin on my Sentinel to strip away Armor and CCing with Cryo Blast but I want a different party member. I figured Samara could be nice with an AoE Reave and me using Pull or her using an occasional Pull for me to Charge. I did some reading and someone said I needed someone that can Pull, though I do doubt it, it does seem nice when I think about it, having someone pull a mob and I biotic charge.. I do have Kasumi but I am not fond of her, she just spams Shadow Strike meh.

Also you were talking about squad disruptor blabla, I will be using Squad Cryo or Inferno, so I do not need a party member which supports with Ammo like Garrus.


Miranda really isn't as great as people make her out to be; her damage and health bonuses are largely negligible. With the glitched incisor and +50% damage, Thane and Zaeed outclass every other squadmate. The ability to strip defenses is irrelevant when Zaeed and Thane tear down defenses just by shooting at them with the incisor, plus Zaeed and Thane have inferno grenade and warp anyway. If you're using the claymore, Zaeed and Thane are definitely the way to go. The damage boost provided by Miranda is outclassed by the insane damage Zaeed and Thane do with the incisor, and the health boost is negated by the fact that Zaeed and Thane make stuff die more quickly, resulting in less damage taken overall. 

Play style is still a factor though. I personally prefer Samara and Thane. If your squad mates are capable of warp detonating by themselves, you can charge in to groups, shoot down a shield/barrier, then have Samara+Thane warp detonate the target. This will cause all of the surrounding enemies to either stumble or in some cases go flying. As such, having squad mates that can warp detonate by themselves allows you to charge in to groups of enemies that would ordinarily kill you, and then temporarily stun them while you move to safety. You're given much more flexibility for charging if your squad mates can warp detonate by themselves. This strategy doesn't really work with the claymore though, because you'll kill the target in one hit rather than simply removing their defense. As I said, go with Zaeed/Thane if you're using the claymore.

Your bonus power depends on your squad mates really. I don't like anything with a cooldown greater than six seconds personally. The huge cooldown on things like Fortification disables charge for too long for my tastes. If you're going with squad mates that can warp detonate, I'd take area reave so that you can area reave -> Samara pull field -> Thane unstable warp. It's the fastest way to clear out bunched up enemies if reave will remove their defense in one hit.

If your squad mates are Zaeed and Thane, then you have Thane's warp and Zaeed's inferno grenade for stripping defenses. That's fine for dealing with barriers and armor, but you're left without a means of stripping shields. I'd take area shield drain under such circumstances. 

If you DON'T have the incisor sniper rifle, then Zaeed and Thane are much less effective, and I'm not sure if their +50% damage talent is enough to compensate and still allow them to remain powerhouses. If you like Miranda simply because she can handle every defense type by herself, then you might as well use Kasumi. Shadow Strike does more damage than warp/overload to any defense type, stuns the target for an extended period of time regardless of whether or not it removes their defense, has a cooldown of 9 seconds as opposed to the 12 second cooldown on warp/overload, and cools down instantly if it kills the target (assuming you choose the rapid version). As far as defense stripping goes, Kasumi far outclasses Miranda. Miranda can warp detonate, which is noteworthy, but her squad boosts are almost completely negligible and they're nowhere near as good as everyone acts like they are. 

Modifié par Thresher Maw, 11 août 2010 - 01:21 .


#2265
Kronner

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Based on my experience, Zaeed and Thane is awesome combo, but they do not have much of a chance to shine, Vanguard kills too fast for them to matter.
Miranda's damage boost is noticeable, at least for me, I use Claymore like 90% of the game and Locust SMG for the rest, and when I Charge and shoot from melee range, with Miranda I kill with one shot 100% of the time, without her, sometimes enemy has tiny bit of health left (regular enemies) so I have to melee, that is not a disadvantage when it comes to rate of fire (reload trick obviously) but it gives me less time to pick the next victim. Squadmates are totally useless to me anyways (I do not enjoy Warp explosions), they do not kill more than 10% of enemies in the game, that makes Miranda's passive talent the best choice for me.

On the other hand, her damage bonus can be made up for with Recon Hood, Stabilization Gauntlets and Kestrel armor, also her bonus is not as important in vanilla Insanity game, but is quite important in NG+ Insanity (especially in the beginning). Miranda is not unviersally the best choice, but since I like her anyways I have her with me most of the time.

Modifié par Kronner, 11 août 2010 - 01:35 .


#2266
tonnactus

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Direksone wrote...

Also you were talking about squad disruptor blabla, I will be using Squad Cryo or Inferno, so I do not need a party member which supports with Ammo like Garrus.


Nothing is better against geth then squad disruptor. Guranteed one shot kill even with weaker shotguns then the claymore.

#2267
yuckygeo

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I'm on my first Vanguard playthrough and I have a few questions about how Charge works that I hope one of you Vanguard vets can answer.

Quite often I get the "Can't target them!" feedback from Shepard when I try to Charge even though I know I'm in range. Does the target have to be out of cover to Charge them? Does Shepard? And does Shepard have to be able "see" them?

Sorry if this was answered earlier, but I didn't want to go through 91 pages.

Thanks.


#2268
Kacynski

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You mihgt want to have a look on my post one page back on this thread, where I listed pretty much all my experiences with charge failing.

To answer your question regarding cover: yes, the have to be (at least partially) out of cover. Not sure, what you mean with "see them", if you can't lock on them, then obviously you can't charge them. If you have locked them, but they move behind a large obstacle (you still see the red frame for locking on them), you also can't charge them

Modifié par Kacynski, 12 août 2010 - 03:21 .


#2269
Nexolek

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yuckygeo wrote...

I'm on my first Vanguard playthrough and I have a few questions about how Charge works that I hope one of you Vanguard vets can answer.
Quite often I get the "Can't target them!" feedback from Shepard when I try to Charge even though I know I'm in range. Does the target have to be out of cover to Charge them? Does Shepard? And does Shepard have to be able "see" them?
Sorry if this was answered earlier, but I didn't want to go through 91 pages.
Thanks.


Answered simply, yes, no and yes. If a target is in cover, you cannot Charge them. If you hit Charge during the animation of them ducking, it should work. You yourself can be in cover to Charge. Essentially, as long as they're visible in your crosshair (and not in cover) you should be ok. Of course, it bugs out every now and then which completely throws you off, but that's just the way it goes. It just takes a bit of getting used to. And maybe a bit of dying... but that's all part of the fun. To me at least :whistle:

#2270
Harley_Dude

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I tried Lift + Charge last night and watched Krogan fly. The effect is the closest I've found to my beloved explosive round in ME1.

#2271
Arhka

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The Harley Dude wrote...

I tried Lift + Charge last night and watched Krogan fly. The effect is the closest I've found to my beloved explosive round in ME1.


You clearly have not seen Jack's fully upgraded Shockwave. That is power right there.

#2272
Harley_Dude

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I tried it on my adept and didn't care for it but maybe I'll try it again with this vanguard. I don't use Jack much since I usually let the squad auto-pilot and don't switch up guns or place the squad in cover. She dies too often with her shotty playing this way. Reminds me of Dominic vs Raam.

Modifié par The Harley Dude, 12 août 2010 - 06:50 .


#2273
Direksone

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So questions about armor: shield or health more important? Got the DLC armor forgot what it's called but I will use some parts of it, however, some parts only have +shield while some other pieces of armor could increase my health. Whats most important for a Vanguard 'statwise'?

#2274
Direksone

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

Direksone wrote...

Yes but I have heard Fortification does not get cancelled when you Charge, Barrier and Geth Shield do. By the by, whats the exact difference between barrier and geth shield? True that Fortification does not benefit, however if its true that it does not get cancelled it might be a better one. Fortification>Charge>Gun em down and you're sure you can take a hit since Fortification is on. Otherwise its Charge>Barrier>Gun em down which might pose some problems imo.



how come youd take a bonus power like fortification or barrier when an upgraded medigel basically does the same thing???


I'll have more protection. I like never use Unity to recover my health or shields, never done it, never payed attention to it, perhaps I should, I dont know. Furthermore I dont prefer Reave since its so overused, simple as that, so I'd want Barrier just to give me that protection I might need.

Modifié par Direksone, 12 août 2010 - 07:33 .


#2275
Direksone

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tonnactus wrote...

Direksone wrote...

Also you were talking about squad disruptor blabla, I will be using Squad Cryo or Inferno, so I do not need a party member which supports with Ammo like Garrus.


Nothing is better against geth then squad disruptor. Guranteed one shot kill even with weaker shotguns then the claymore.

 Nice and all but only really effective vs Shields and Synthetics, now you do encounter a lot with shields but not THAT much Synthetics, I don't see myself switching partymembers every mission: oh a geth mission> Zaeed. Oh something with Blood Pack> Garrus(armor piercing ammo). And so on, I have always had a standard team with me and I was mostly the one supporting with ammos. I might as well bring jack along for Warp ammo to support the team since that does equal damage vs everything (god damn did I love having it on my Sentinel). But I will have Incendiary Ammo in my build so its purely for my team the buff, I might go with squad Cryo, but then again, having 1 person with me with, as you say, disruptor doesnt seem to have much of a use if I am battling the Blood Pack with are Organics with armor..