2583 réponses à ce sujet

[Khuutra]

Oh well cool then. Inferno Ammo and the Phalanx, don't let me down!



I'm discovering that Inferno ammo handles the vast, vast majority of situations for me. The only other ammo type I might use would be Disruptor, and that's only during missions with lots of geth. When fighting YMIR mechs I'd rather switch between my weapons.



It's hard figuring out when it's not appropriate to charge. The Collector Ship gave me some trouble, but only after the platforms, oddly enough. I used the Claymore, but I'll need to practice wit it more. May still lean toward Evi.

[Bozorgmehr]

Khuutra wrote...

It's hard figuring out when it's not appropriate to charge. The Collector Ship gave me some trouble, but only after the platforms, oddly enough. I used the Claymore, but I'll need to practice wit it more. May still lean toward Evi.

It's always appropriate to Charge; even YMIRs can be fought headon with Vanguard. There are some situations you'll face enemies somewhere you can't go, Reaper can't be charged and it's inadvisable to use it against Praetorions; everything else is fair game

[Khuutra]

How in the world do you fight a YMIR head-on? Their machinegun eats through your shields and health faster than Charge can cool down, and I don't think there's any way to stun them before stripping all of their defenses.

[Bozorgmehr]

Khuutra wrote...

How in the world do you fight a YMIR head-on? Their machinegun eats through your shields and health faster than Charge can cool down, and I don't think there's any way to stun them before stripping all of their defenses.

It isn't that hard if you spam medkits (only way I ever done it), but there are folks out there fighting 2 YMIRs without cover (though they do use other mech as cover) - incredible stuff nevertheless:

www.youtube.com/watch - Claymore

www.youtube.com/watch - Scimitar & Viper

[sinosleep]

Khuutra wrote...

How in the world do you fight a YMIR head-on? Their machinegun eats through your shields and health faster than Charge can cool down, and I don't think there's any way to stun them before stripping all of their defenses.

It's doable, safer and more effecient to just use a viper/mattock from range though. Anything else though I typically charge first think later.

[Khuutra]

Yeah, I think next runthrough I'll take AR training. Don't get me wrong, I like the Claymore a lot, but I play on 360 and you can't turn while doing the reload trick without an extra thumb. I do like the Mattock...

[Freakaz0idx]

Khuutra wrote...

Yeah, I think next runthrough I'll take AR training. Don't get me wrong, I like the Claymore a lot, but I play on 360 and you can't turn while doing the reload trick without an extra thumb. I do like the Mattock...

I'm glad another 360 user has felt my pain. I really wish they looked over the Claymore design before the game was released. I'm interested to see how Christina Norman uses it on 360.

Modifié par Freakaz0idx, 30 août 2010 - 03:30 .

[Khuutra]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

Khuutra wrote...

Yeah, I think next runthrough I'll take AR training. Don't get me wrong, I like the Claymore a lot, but I play on 360 and you can't turn while doing the reload trick without an extra thumb. I do like the Mattock...

I'm glad another 360 user has felt my pain. I really wish they looked over the Claymore design before the game was released. I'm interested to see how Christina Norman uses it on 360.

Dont get me wrong. I don't think it's ill-designed. It's just that my hyper-aggressive playstyle only works when I can kill two (preferably three) enemies before having to reload. It's harder with the Claymore. Sub-optimal for my style does not mean that the Claymore is an inherently worse gun.

[Khuutra]

All right, I know that I said I felt like a real Vanguard when I killed the Colossus up close and personal. I only thought that was true. Now I know the truth: I had an adrenaline rush going, and felt invincible because I had exploited the AI in some strange way. It was impressive, but not awe-inspiring.

I just beat the Reaper IFF. That was awe-inspiring. For me, I mean.

Brought Mordin and Samara with me, for the area versions of Reave and Incinerate. Thought I might need them. Mordin carried the Tempest, while Samara had the Mattock. I gave them Squad Cryo Ammo while I turned on Inferno Ammo for my Phalanx and my Eviscerator.

Understand that when I played this mission as a Sentinel on Insanity, I had a lot of trouble with it. It's a very offense-oriented mission and Sentinel hasn't got a lot of it. I expected this to be hard. Imagine my surprise.

Every encounter consisted of me walking through hordes of Husks, stepping nimbly around them and popping them once with my Phalanx to strip their armor. I popped them once as they climbed up ledges. I popped them once as they charged. I popped them once as they shuffled into each other. Then I walked away calmly as all of them exploded into a hailstorm of frozen flesh and twisted wire.

When I saw a Scion, I pulled out my Eviscerator and Charged. I unloaded on its face, hitting between every shot. When they did their up-close attack, I reloaded. Shot them some more. When they prepared to do it a second time and damage my health, I charged again. Most of them didn't live long enough to get a second go at my health.

There were two instances where battles did not go according to that formula.

The first was in the area with all the stairs, around the shotgun upgrade. I killed the Scion while Husks were still spawning and got swarmed. I retreated up the stairs, looked bakc, and noticed that the Husks were in two rough groups: one closer and one farther away. Mordin Incinerated the closer, Samara Reaved the further. I threw an Improved Shockwave, and bodies went flying everywhere.

The other was immediately after that - double Scion time. I remembered that in this topic's OP, fighting two Scions had a single suggested solution: Cain. I just charged one of them - the one on the right - as soon as it came into sight. What followed that is somewhat hard to remember - I know I killed the Scion, and when its armor was down at the halfway poit I saw the other one standing right there, and I was being swarmed by Husks. Area Reave and Incinerate cut through Husks and Scion alike, and I finished the first one even while the second was attacking. After that it was easy. I had killed two Scions in sequence from point-blank range, and it had been a matter of reflex.

I never died during the whole mission.

Now I am a believer. Now I am ready to call the Vanguard the best class in the game.

Modifié par Khuutra, 30 août 2010 - 11:20 .

[EffectedByTheMasses]

Question... when an enemy is cryo'd, and you charge another enemy with area charge close by, will the knockover effect shatter the frozen person?

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

BTW:
Archon Visor sucks, it makes no (well certainly not 5%, more like 0.5%) difference for cooldowns. I measured it using FRAPS and VirtualDub, for Charge it removes extra 0.03 second, not 0.3 as it should have.

Yup you were right, hell I'm not even getting a consistent 0.03 reduction Kronner. I just sent a message out to Eric to see if he can provide some answers as to whether it's not working as intended or our math is off.

Here are the results I got from using fraps to film myself and then doing a frame by frame inspection to determine cool down time.

 with visor

6.750 (icon turns black after impact and begins refill)
11.733   (icon is available for use)
4.983 (total)

15.133 (icon turns black after impact and begins refill)
20.067  (icon is available for use)
4.934 (total)

no visor

8.033 (icon turns black after impact and begins refill)
12.950  (icon is available for use)
4.917 (total)

15.583 (icon turns black after impact and begins refill)
20.533  (icon is available for use)
4.95 (total)

The times vary in the thousandths of a second but remain constant in the tenths. They all come in at 4.9x .

So either the visor isn't working, or my math is off.

Modifié par sinosleep, 31 août 2010 - 07:16 .

[Kronner]

Yeah, I got pretty much the same numbers (I assume you had Champion Vanguard).



I also tested it on a Sentinel - Tech Armor. Same story. Archon Visor just does not work.

[sinosleep]

Hell from those numbers it doesn't appear that other CD bonuses are working either, or that they don't work the same way as the damage bonuses do. They said that the damage bonuses get added together and then applied. But from my numbers I'm not even getting the full 20% bonus from just the biotic upgrade bonuses. The CD on charge is 6.00, I'm coming in at 4.9 when it should be 4.8. And that's not including the supposed 15% CD reduction from champion vanguard which would bring down the time to 3.9, a full second faster than what I'm getting in fraps. I'm about to test with a respec to destroyer to see if it makes any difference.

[edit here] Actually I'm going to respec to 0 points in assault mastery, then resepct to destroyer.

Modifié par sinosleep, 31 août 2010 - 07:24 .

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Hell from those numbers it doesn't appear that other CD bonuses are working either, or that they don't work the same way as the damage bonuses do. They said that the damage bonuses get added together and then applied. But from my numbers I'm not even getting the full 20% bonus from just the biotic upgrade bonuses. The CD on charge is 6.00, I'm coming in at 4.9 when it should be 4.8. And that's not including the supposed 15% CD reduction from champion vanguard which would bring down the time to 3.9, a full second faster than what I'm getting in fraps. I'm about to test with a respec to destroyer to see if it makes any difference.

For Destroyer I got this:

Destroyer with Archon Visor can Charge every 5.272 seconds.

Destroyer without Archon Visor can Charge every 5.305 seconds.


Yeah, it is weird and Charge seems to get a special treatment, because cooldowns are supposed to work like this:

cooldown time * (1 - all cooldown upgrades)

example:
Vanguard, Champion (15%), biotic upgrade(20%), Archon Visor(5%):

6*(1-0.15-0.2-0.05) = 6*0.6 = 3.6 seconds


would make Charge too overpowered though.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 07:28 .

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...

For Destroyer I got this:

Destroyer with Archon Visor can Charge every 5.272 seconds.

Destroyer without Archon Visor can Charge every 5.305 seconds.


Yeah, it is weird and Charge seems to get a special treatment, because cooldowns are supposed to work like this:

cooldown time * (1 - all cooldown upgrades)

example:
Vanguard, Champion (15%), biotic upgrade(20%), Archon Visor(5%):

6*(1-0.15-0.2-0.05) = 6*0.6 = 3.6 seconds


would make Charge too overpowered though.

Was the method for CD reduction posted any where? I checked the gameplay data sticky but didn't see it in there.

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Was the method for CD reduction posted any where? I checked the gameplay data sticky but didn't see it in there.

Eric sent me that info in a message. Seems to work for some powers, but not so much for others.

[sinosleep]

Kronner wrote...
Eric sent me that info in a message. Seems to work for some powers, but not so much for others.

Damn how long ago was that? Was that posted in this thread or any where else on the board? I didn't exactly go through every page I had missed in the months I was away.

Modifié par sinosleep, 31 août 2010 - 07:32 .

[Kronner]

sinosleep wrote...

Kronner wrote...
Eric sent me that info in a message. Seems to work for some powers, but not so much for others.

Damn how long ago was that? Was that posted in this thread or any where else on the board? I didn't exactly go through every page I had missed in the months I was away.

Nah, I ment a PM haha. I asked him about the Archon Visor, and also how do the cooldowns work. He then sent me how the cooldowns should work.

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 07:37 .

[sinosleep]

Numbers for charge with 0 points in assault

5.817

5.75

5.766

5.733

5.7 seems to be the average though that first one was slow for whatever reason.That's only a 5% reduction CD time even though I have the 20% CD bio upgrades.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:06 .

[sinosleep]

Just tested shock wave with 0 points in assault.

4.7

4.683

4.7

4.767

4.7 average on a 6.00 CD for a 22% reduction without assault even factoring in.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[Kronner]

I got similar results for Guardian Sentinel and Assault Armor (12 seconds cooldown).
Guardian + tech upgrades = 50% cooldown reduction, so I expected to see a 6 seconds cooldown for Assault Armor, but it was 5.78 (5.77 with the Archon Visor btw - but with Archon Visor I expected 12 * 0.45 = 5.4, this once again confirms Archon Visor is useless).

IMHO one of the possible explanations for this weird behaviour is that Charge is not recognized as a biotic power by the game (either a bug or maybe on purpose - balancing the game, I honestly think that Charge with 3.6 cooldown would be gamebreaking).

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 08:05 .

[sinosleep]

Yeah archon visor is DEFINITELY useless as for the second time now I've gotten a quicker time without it than with it, lol

shockwave CD no visor 0 assault

4.684

shockwave CD visor 0 assault

4.7

shockwave CD no visor champion assault

3.8

37% cool down reduction!! Slightly higher than the 35% expected but a few percentage points here and there is to be expected.

It does indeed appear that charge stands on it's own as far as CD reduction is concerned since shockwave behaved as expected with the CD bonuses from the class passive and bioamp upgrades.

Modifié par sinosleep, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[Kronner]

Yeah, also we must keep in mind that when FRAPS is recording, there will be some bias one way or the other, so that explains why it is possible to get a slightly better time without the visor than with it (for example the 4.7 vs 4.684 cooldown). I am curious if BioWare will actually fix the Archon visor, I guess it has got to be something like wrong decimal position in some game file (in the DLC_MCR_03 dir for sure - not in .ini, I checked it out already, probably in one of those .pcc files).

Modifié par Kronner, 31 août 2010 - 08:17 .

[sinosleep]

Yeah, I figured the same thing which is why I took multiple times for most but the difference is pretty negligible so from now on in fraps threads I'm only going to take one time and call it a day.

[Khuutra]

Wait, are you guys saying there's not really an effective difference in cooldown between Champion versus having no points in Assault Mastery at all when it comes to Charge? I find that really hard to believe. Charge feels faster than it did at the beginning.

Maybe I'm conditioning myself to experience that, though. I won't argue with you guys and your fancy computer hardware, but... dang. That definitely puts a damper on how I looked at the power.