192 réponses à ce sujet

[Adamski_707]

I have my own theory about the reapers. Seeing it is essentialy stated the base for a new reaper is made from the species they harvest but it also appears most reapers look similar.

I think perhaps the larve stage we see at the end of ME2 forms the core over which the more familar squid like reaper is based?

[ryder500]

Please don't talk to me like you're my superior ok R0ck3t33r.

Honestly does it really matter what they look like. I am quite happy with knowing that it will all be revealed in ME3, so I don't bother wasting my time trying to prove a point that proves nothing other than that you take a game a tad to seriously.

Modifié par ryder500, 08 février 2010 - 08:27 .

[Daerog]

Dethateer wrote...

Asari didn't kill a Reaper.

It's not like Shepard went up and snapped Sovereign in half, a whole fleet of warships killed Sovereign. Shepard just helped stop Sovereign by bringing light to his plans. Any species could have done what Shepard did, even Saren could of if he wasn't indoctrinated by being on that ship for so long ever since the first book. Even humans are easily indoctrinated.
I think the interest is more genetic rather than: Oh snap, one of us died, better go harvest the species of the person mostly responsible.
Also, what about the species who killed the derelict reaper?

Edit: Also, they were constantly doing experiments on other species as well, even special cases in those species, but in the end decide humans were the best bet for a reaper. What made all that early collection useless?

Modifié par DaerogTheDhampir, 08 février 2010 - 08:27 .

[BigKahuna25]

i thought harbinger looked prothean-ish in the ending. maybe thats why he's the one controlling the collectors

[dan107]

At the end of the game when it shows the Reaper fleet you see that they are all similar but different shapes. The tentacles seem to be common to all reapers, it's just the front that looks like the shape of the species that formed it. The derelict reaper is too badly damaged to see what it's "face" would've been.



And Vigil wouldn't know what happened to the Protheans. He was built by a small outpost that cut off all communication from the rest of the galaxy as soon as the Reapers attacked. After they were gone, there would be no way to know if they just killed everyone or they took people with them.

[Dethateer]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Asari didn't kill a Reaper.
It's not like Shepard went up and snapped Sovereign in half, a whole fleet of warships killed Sovereign.

Right. A fleet of human warships.

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Also, what about the species who killed the derelict reaper?

How the hell do you know they weren't made into Reapers?

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Edit: Also, they were constantly
doing experiments on other species as well, even special cases in those
species, but in the end decide humans were the best bet for a reaper.
What made all that early collection useless?

Mordin says something about humans
being more genetically diverse than other species and making better test
subjects.

Modifié par Dethateer, 08 février 2010 - 08:32 .

[BigKahuna25]

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Asari didn't kill a Reaper.

It's not like Shepard went up and snapped Sovereign in half, a whole fleet of warships killed Sovereign. Shepard just helped stop Sovereign by bringing light to his plans. Any species could have done what Shepard did, even Saren could of if he wasn't indoctrinated by being on that ship for so long ever since the first book. Even humans are easily indoctrinated.
I think the interest is more genetic rather than: Oh snap, one of us died, better go harvest the species of the person mostly responsible.
Also, what about the species who killed the derelict reaper?

i think it was mostly the human fleet inside shooting soverign and everybody else was still outside badly beaten up but mopping up or something, and i may be mistaken but i think they say something like the big gun was probably a last act of defiance while the reapers wiped their species out. if it didnt say that directly thats the feeling i got.

[Dragnx80]

Yeah I was more than just a little disappointed about that FARSE of an ending to Mass Effect 2. I've even tried to wrap my head around the fact that they shape it after a species that succeeds in defeating them but it just doesn't feel right. A human Shaped Reaper was probably as bad as Collectors blending up humans to make a galaxies larged meat smoothie. Either way it's still hard to stomache.

[RBKeys]

Dragnx80 wrote...

Yeah I was more than just a little disappointed about that FARSE of an ending to Mass Effect 2. I've even tried to wrap my head around the fact that they shape it after a species that succeeds in defeating them but it just doesn't feel right. A human Shaped Reaper was probably as bad as Collectors blending up humans to make a galaxies larged meat smoothie. Either way it's still hard to stomache.

Not just any human . . . The Terminator himself!

[Tok153]

Dethateer wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

This makes the most sense, but why humans and not asari?

Asari didn't kill a Reaper.

Actually all council species killed the Reaper. Normandy delivered the final blow, but it was a group effort to take that mofo down. Shepard who is a Human was the main driving force kinda.

[Daerog]

Dethateer wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...
Also, what about the species who killed the derelict reaper?

How the hell do you know they weren't made into Reapers?

I don't, just bringing it up. I wasn't slamming down your opinion, I was just expanding off of it, sorry if I came out like I was turning your ideas down. Though, I was wondering what made Asari not worth harvesting, or any of the other species. I don't think it's combat skills or Reaper-killer reputation. Could be wrong, though what a mean prize to win for killing one.

[BigKahuna25]

Dragnx80 wrote...

Yeah I was more than just a little disappointed about that FARSE of an ending to Mass Effect 2. I've even tried to wrap my head around the fact that they shape it after a species that succeeds in defeating them but it just doesn't feel right. A human Shaped Reaper was probably as bad as Collectors blending up humans to make a galaxies larged meat smoothie. Either way it's still hard to stomache.

hell, maybe its not because we killed one but because there are lots of us in convenient places to grab and we aren't taken seriously enough by the other species to do anything when we start complaining our fringe colonies are disappearing.

[Kordras]

Tok153 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

This makes the most sense, but why humans and not asari?

Asari didn't kill a Reaper.

Actually all council species killed the Reaper. Normandy delivered the final blow, but it was a group effort to take that mofo down. Shepard who is a Human was the main driving force kinda.

Yup, humanity entering the galactic scene really led to Sovereign's downfall... but it wouldn't have happened without Nihlus' interest in recruiting you as a human spectre. Turians took caused the Reapers downfall, not humans! You humans are all racist!

[Dethateer]

Tok153 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

This makes the most sense, but why humans and not asari?

Asari didn't kill a Reaper.

Actually all council species killed the Reaper. Normandy delivered the final blow, but it was a group effort to take that mofo down.

...
Where exactly in the final cutscene of ME1 are other ships during the last part of the fight than human Dreddies + the Normandy and a couple of other frigates? Only human ships shot at it and actually did damage, Sovereign shrugged off everything else thanks to his shields.

DaerogTheDhampir wrote...

I don't, just bringing it up. I
wasn't slamming down your opinion, I was just expanding off of it, sorry
if I came out like I was turning your ideas down. Though, I was
wondering what made Asari not worth harvesting, or any of the other
species. I don't think it's combat skills or Reaper-killer reputation.
Could be wrong, though what a mean prize to win for killing one.

Well,
you basically win permanent survival of your species, so...
Also, it
just seemed weird, sorry if I was too pushy.

Modifié par Dethateer, 08 février 2010 - 08:37 .

[Deuterium_Dawn]

R0ck3t33r wrote...


It's implied that the Collectors would need to attack Earth in order to have enough humans to complete the human-Reaper. If that's the case, then it's extremely unlikely that they would have had enough of the squid-shaped species to make more than one Sovereign-style Reaper. And even if they did, what are the odds that the Derelict Reaper just happens to be the same kind as Sovereign? The Reapers claim that the "cycle" has repeated countless times. If that's the case, then there HAS to be a bunch of different kinds of Reapers, so it seems like a bit of a coincidence that the only two Reapers that got left this side of Dark Space happened to be identical.

They do say that they would need to attack earth to fill up all those pods, but later EDI says they would need "millions, maybe more" to complete the reaper. They wouldn't need all 13 billion or so people on earth to complete one reaper, it seems likely they could make quite a few(Assuming roughly 5million people per reaper(random guess I saw elsewhere)that's 2600 reapers, plus a few more from the non-terminus alliance colonies). A galaxy spanning empire like the protheans or these squid people could produce many more reapers.

On a side note, we're screwed.

Modifié par Deuterium_Dawn, 08 février 2010 - 08:41 .

[Daerog]

Dethateer wrote...

...
Where exactly in the final cutscene of ME1 are other ships during the last part of the fight than human Dreddies + the Normandy and a couple of other frigates? Only human ships shot at it and actually did damage, Sovereign shrugged off everything else thanks to his shields.

True that everyone else was brushed aside and it was really only the humans left. They only were able to kill Sovereign because he was vulnerable trying to open up the gate only to have a virus or w/e was created by the Protheans and used by Shepard to open up the arms and expose Sovereign.

It's not like we can do more damage than any other species, it's all basically the same tech. Humanity did kill the Reaper, but it's not like it couldn't have been done by anyone else.

Only real hope for killing the Reapers now are the Geth and any species outside Citadel space who are able to develop their own tech and not be based too much off Reaper tech.

[1490]

Geassguy360 wrote...

1490 wrote...

What I'm guessing is that the shape the reaper takes is only what it's "core" is made of.  If you think about it, the "human reaper" is probably only a few hundred feet long, but Sovereign was like a couple kilometers long.  I mean, you wouldn't have any way to "grow" the human skeleton shape to be that big with the proportions it's at right now.  I'm guessing the reapers are somewhat organic at the very core, but then the rest of them is a synthetic shell built around that.   So theoretically, all reapers might start out looking different, but then they build around the core to create their signature squid appearrance.

In any case, we won't know until ME3.

Best explanation I've seen yet.

Thanks!

Adding onto my previous argument, when you're in the derelict reaper, it looks like the inside is a pretty-complete synthetic structure.  You'd expect there to be a lot of places where material is "missing" if a good percentage of the ship was made out of organic flesh.  Not to mention it would take A LOT of raw human material to fill a structure that is 2 cubic kilometers, even if it's only a fraction.  I'm not so good at math, but the Reapers would need hundred of millions, if not billions of humans to make one human-shaped reaper of equal organic-synthetic proportions as the so-called "human reaper larva."  They'd only be able to make a few reapers with the entire population of Earth, assuming they were even able to successfully capture that many people with how many collectors they have available, or if many of them were killed during resistance.  That's makes reproducing really hard for the Reapers, and very risky because at least a few of them will die trying to clean out the galaxy (Sovereign already put them at a negative for this "extinction cycle").  The idea of having organic material at the core only makes a lot more sense when you consider this.

[Daerog]

Deuterium_Dawn wrote...

On a side note, we're screwed.

Well, when the galaxy is burning all around Earth, at least we can say: "Hey, hold on, about that turning us into a Reaper thing.... is the option still available?"

[LJScribes]

don't forget that Harbinger was a reaper shaped similarly to the lead Collector, You can see this 3 times, once when it is disconnecting from the collectors you can see it's hologram, second when Joker hands you the data pad you see it again from several angles, and finally when we see the Reaper Invasion force he is leading it. this can lead us to assume that during the last reaper invasion the protheans built more reapers like it.



what makes it different? its "legs, tentacles w/e" fold under its carapace. Also it doesn't have the flat pointed body like Sovereign did, instead it has a fatter body with a rounded off end. Even its "head" is shaped like the lead Collector.



The Collectors weren't able to make a Prothean shaped Reaper this time around because there were so few of them, most likely the entire population of them was on that base. Not to mention their DNA was all dumbed down and similar thanks to controlled cloning to maintain their numbers so that they could still be used as pawns, as stated by Mordin and EDI they're technically weren't even Protheans anymore.. Apparently you need varying DNA to make a reaper, this would be why they needed to harvest multitudes of humans rather than just a few and clone them.



Prothean numbers were in the trillions during the last reaper invasion. moderately higher in comparison to the human population this time around. As far as we know Harbinger could be the only Prothean shaped reaper and those that weren't used to make another were either killed during the invasion or indoctrinated into slavery as the Collectors. This can give us an idea of just how many individuals of a particular species it takes to make ONE reaper.



It is my theory to suggest then that the species that was around to build the reapers that look like Sovereign and the derelict reaper were so much more numerous than the Protheans there were enough of them to create so many.



Hell we may even see a Keeper shaped reaper in ME3



J/k but it's an interesting thought.

[Doug84]

R0ck3t33r wrote...

Additionally, it's worth mentioning that EDI jumps to a pretty weird conclusion: she says that the Reapers failed to create a prothean-shaped Reaper. Why would she jump to that conclusion? At that point, we'd only seen two reapers: Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper.

I think its because there where protheans left after the reapers were done - its probably save to assume if the protheans where going to be made into reapers, they'd use every last one; "we need more prothean juice!"

[BigKahuna25]

it isnt a synthetic organic hybrid in that half of it is wires and circuit boards and the other half is muscles and organs, its a more complex blending than that...

[Tamcia]

When reapers attacked they used citadel to block all relays and communication, meaning one colony had no idea what was happening to the other. There was no way for Vigil to know whether reapers took protheans to "modify" them.

[Whailor]

The whole Reaper thing has "evolved" or changed in ME2, it's different then what it was in ME1. In ME1 it was stated pretty clearly that they're sentient MACHINES, not some symbiots or cybernetics. They were created by organics in long past, obviously, but like geth they probably kicked their organic masters into muck and evolved on their own. Now in ME2 they're suddenly not mechanical AI constructs but a symbiosis between a machine and living... goo pressed from fresh sapients, so to say. Heck, this starts to sound soon like in Star Wars - first there's the Force and later there are suddenly medichlorinians or what the crap. Who knows, in ME3 we perhaps will find out that they're actually pre-historic squids who left the world to avoid becoming a canned sea food and now come back, decked in metal, to avenge their now eaten cousins on every world...



Ah well, we'll see. I just don't like myself when suddenly the lore makes such weird twists and starts to differ so much between versions. As for human shaped Reaper then that was weird, I mean, how the heck would it move? Fly like Ironman - why make it human shape then, that's not exactly the most ergonomic form. The squid-like form like Sovereign and other reapers had was good and distinctive enough, human shape made no sense at all.

[Dethateer]

1490 wrote...

Geassguy360 wrote...

1490 wrote...

What I'm guessing is that the shape the reaper takes is only what it's "core" is made of.  If you think about it, the "human reaper" is probably only a few hundred feet long, but Sovereign was like a couple kilometers long.  I mean, you wouldn't have any way to "grow" the human skeleton shape to be that big with the proportions it's at right now.  I'm guessing the reapers are somewhat organic at the very core, but then the rest of them is a synthetic shell built around that.   So theoretically, all reapers might start out looking different, but then they build around the core to create their signature squid appearrance.

In any case, we won't know until ME3.

Best explanation I've seen yet.

Thanks!

Adding onto my previous argument, when you're in the derelict reaper, it
looks like the inside is a pretty-complete synthetic structure.  You'd
expect there to be a lot of places where material is "missing" if a good
percentage of the ship was made out of organic flesh.  Not to mention
it would take A LOT of raw human material to fill a structure that is 2
cubic kilometers, even if it's only a fraction.  I'm not so good at
math, but the Reapers would need hundred of millions, if not billions of
humans to make one human-shaped reaper of equal organic-synthetic
proportions as the so-called "human reaper larva."  They'd only be able
to make a few reapers with the entire population of Earth, assuming they
were even able to successfully capture that many people with how many
collectors they have available, or if many of them were killed during
resistance.  That's makes reproducing really hard for the Reapers, and
very risky because at least a few of them will die trying to clean out
the galaxy (Sovereign already put them at a negative for this
"extinction cycle").  The idea of having organic material at the core
only makes a lot more sense when you consider this.

First, the Core was still intact, it could very well be feeding the organic parts.
Second, why grow a Reaper the shape of a human into a completely different shape involving an enormous waste of material? Sticking that thing into a synthetic shell would make much more sense.

Modifié par Dethateer, 08 février 2010 - 08:50 .

[Coort]

Uhmm... i recently re-played ME1 for a save game to use, and I'm pretty sure that Vigil states (if you ask him) that those who survived (except the ones on Ilos) were "conditioned" and used as spies against the remaining prothean settlement/hiding places. This statement does not exclude using few protheans as some sort of "keepers", with another purpose, like a plan-b: construct a new reaper with the genetic information of the actual galaxy population.



Why another plan? scheduled even before the event of Saren and the Geth? Actually we don't know WHEN the Sovereign's signal on the citadel failed, ME1 tells us (Consort follow up quest) that Protheans approached our civilization (for study) when Cro-Magnon was stepping around with some bones in hand. Cro-Magnon presence on Earth is dated at 32,000 years ago (by cave paintings, use wikipedia), ****** Sapiens is dated with fossils ad 160k years ago, we know that reapers "cycle" is about every 50k years, then we supposed before that we were approaching or we was little overdue with our programmed extinction, BUT if we were LONG overdue, like 10k years? A plan-b now sounds more logical and possible. And more: what if saren was only a little workaround for the signal problem, and this (ME2 reaper) should be part of the original plan, find some living species with the most "adaptive" genetic code (stated by Mordin, not remember when) and prepare a reaper ready to speed up their assimilation (and wipe) program? Use the most suitable conditioned species as slave for the next 50k years, create a NEW reaper with a "flexible" (?!?) genetic code, assimilate and wipe, rinse and repeat.

Logical, clean, they become rich, they evolve, they grow (in numbers!). I've already stated that they are borg squid?!?!?



BTW I can agree with other that the "human" reaper is a little creepy and too much for the lore, but, really, anyone that haven't done a little smile killing that Terminator?!?!??!