192 réponses à ce sujet

[Dethateer]

That's the central point of my... err.. point. The human Reaper had a core on its (future) abdomen, the core being identical to the one we see on the Derelict Reaper.

[Cross1280]

Something i thought of while running through the collector ship last night, when you see all of the dead human bodies piled all over the place, and Shepard and crew speculate that the Collectors are running genetic experiments. Now my thought was after having completed the game a few times that maybe these bodys were not being experimented on but "disposed" of because of genetic defects that would be harmful to the creation of the new reaper. Trying to filter out the genes that would cause things like Sickle cell, or Autism etc., etc.

[Forsakerr]

with thinking about Vigil i remember that after talking to him you have the option of downloading Vigil's info on your omni-tool (in my case it was Liara that suggested to grab some info from Vigil i dont remember the exact words though) , so when i spoke to the council i was surprised that i had no option of mentioning anything about that info when they told me i pretty much dreamed my trip on ilos

[Dethateer]

You don't have the "option" of getting data from Vigil, you *have* to take it so you can take control of the Citadel.

[CubemonkeyNYC]

Am I the only that noticed that in the final shot of the reapers, a number of them were shaped differently than the sovereign style that we're used to?

[Dethateer]

No. That's the whole point of these threads.

[toezz]

1490 wrote...

Geassguy360 wrote...

1490 wrote...

What I'm guessing is that the shape the reaper takes is only what it's "core" is made of.  If you think about it, the "human reaper" is probably only a few hundred feet long, but Sovereign was like a couple kilometers long.  I mean, you wouldn't have any way to "grow" the human skeleton shape to be that big with the proportions it's at right now.  I'm guessing the reapers are somewhat organic at the very core, but then the rest of them is a synthetic shell built around that.   So theoretically, all reapers might start out looking different, but then they build around the core to create their signature squid appearrance.

In any case, we won't know until ME3.

Best explanation I've seen yet.

Thanks!

Adding onto my previous argument, when you're in the derelict reaper, it looks like the inside is a pretty-complete synthetic structure.  You'd expect there to be a lot of places where material is "missing" if a good percentage of the ship was made out of organic flesh.  Not to mention it would take A LOT of raw human material to fill a structure that is 2 cubic kilometers, even if it's only a fraction.  I'm not so good at math, but the Reapers would need hundred of millions, if not billions of humans to make one human-shaped reaper of equal organic-synthetic proportions as the so-called "human reaper larva."  They'd only be able to make a few reapers with the entire population of Earth, assuming they were even able to successfully capture that many people with how many collectors they have available, or if many of them were killed during resistance.  That's makes reproducing really hard for the Reapers, and very risky because at least a few of them will die trying to clean out the galaxy (Sovereign already put them at a negative for this "extinction cycle").  The idea of having organic material at the core only makes a lot more sense when you consider this.

They only needed to make ONE human reaper.. in an effort to do what sovereign failed to do.. open the citadel mass relay. Thats why harbinger controlls collectors from dark space (like a plan B if you will), and collectors couldn`t open it because the lack of tech skills which the reapers posses to open the mass relay   Also, a human reaper (or any reaper) would have indoctrination powers which again could lead to reaper allies before the main assault..

But now they "must find another way" 

Rush milky way gogogo!!

PS: The human look will be explained in ME3.. but as mentioned before:

Shepard/Alliance kills Reaper
Reaper gets a "WTF" Moment
Reapers decide that human rocks

Modifié par toezz, 08 février 2010 - 06:00 .

[Looy]

Why does everyone assume that just because we have one Human Reaper that all reapers all look like their "father species". I highly doubt that reapers take the shape of their original species, that's straying from regular believable ME sci-fi into stupid sci-fi. I'm guessing that for some reason that will be revealed in ME3, the reaper was shaped like that deliberately.

[CubemonkeyNYC]

Dethateer wrote...

No. That's the whole point of these threads.

Wow. I completely misread the original post. I apologize.

For some reason I thought people were taking issue with the fact that many of the reapers looked similar when the story tells us that they should all look quite different. I'll re-read.

Modifié par CubemonkeyNYC, 08 février 2010 - 05:58 .

[Hokochu]

I thought it was general consensus that the outer shell looks Squidish and that the "brain" or "pilot" of the Reaper looks like its original species. The human reaper was faaaaar to small the be even half of the end product.

[toezz]

CubemonkeyNYC wrote...

Am I the only that noticed that in the final shot of the reapers, a number of them were shaped differently than the sovereign style that we're used to?

No your not the only one..

I have mentioned this in various post.. And they have an similar core shape, but are each individual.
Which makes me belivie that each individual reaper is constructed under the influence of another individual being, reason for this is unknown, just for fun or for some symbiolic meaning.

t.ex: Shepard = Human Reaper

[MBirkhofer]

Whailor wrote...

The whole Reaper thing has "evolved" or changed in ME2, it's different then what it was in ME1. In ME1 it was stated pretty clearly that they're sentient MACHINES, not some symbiots or cybernetics. They were created by organics in long past, obviously, but like geth they probably kicked their organic masters into muck and evolved on their own. Now in ME2 they're suddenly not mechanical AI constructs but a symbiosis between a machine and living... goo pressed from fresh sapients, so to say. Heck, this starts to sound soon like in Star Wars - first there's the Force and later there are suddenly medichlorinians or what the crap. Who knows, in ME3 we perhaps will find out that they're actually pre-historic squids who left the world to avoid becoming a canned sea food and now come back, decked in metal, to avenge their now eaten cousins on every world...

Ah well, we'll see. I just don't like myself when suddenly the lore makes such weird twists and starts to differ so much between versions. As for human shaped Reaper then that was weird, I mean, how the heck would it move? Fly like Ironman - why make it human shape then, that's not exactly the most ergonomic form. The squid-like form like Sovereign and other reapers had was good and distinctive enough, human shape made no sense at all.

Nah, the vision in ME1 shows what seems to be a blending of organic and cybernetics.   While the characters all talk about sentient machines, I always had the impression that they were a combination.    My first impressions were, the Proteans had turned themselves into Reapers.  which was explained away. 
And then as others have all noted. You see the core in the derelect reaper.  Its pretty clear the human shape is only the core, and their will be a shell formed around it.

[dreman9999]

Vigil would not know about the reapers because it's outside his knowledge. He only knows about the Promethean-reaper war, not what came after.

But their's another plot with the Derelict Reaper. The reapers came 50,000 years before ME's current time, the fight with that specific reaper was 25,000 years before ME's current time......

Who fought that reaper?

The Promethean are dead, and no one was that advance at the time of the battle.....So who did it?

[Dethateer]

That Reaper died a hundred million years ago, not 25k. Lrn2listen2TIM, plox.

[WoodWizzard87]

Geassguy360 wrote...

1490 wrote...

What I'm guessing is that the shape the reaper takes is only what it's "core" is made of.  If you think about it, the "human reaper" is probably only a few hundred feet long, but Sovereign was like a couple kilometers long.  I mean, you wouldn't have any way to "grow" the human skeleton shape to be that big with the proportions it's at right now.  I'm guessing the reapers are somewhat organic at the very core, but then the rest of them is a synthetic shell built around that.   So theoretically, all reapers might start out looking different, but then they build around the core to create their signature squid appearrance.

In any case, we won't know until ME3.

Best explanation I've seen yet.

Just remember though that Legion and EDI both say that there are multiple programs running inside a reaper.  So there might even be more than one terminator looking thing inside a large hull.  Kind of how the Geth heretics jack up into their mainframes during Legions' loyalty mission.  3 or 4 per power station and tons of stations per mainframe on a huge 15 Km space station all integrated and talking to each other and sharing information.  Also anyone else notice right at the beginniing of the game that when you first meet Veetor on Freedoms progress, hes talking about how the collector ship and the collectors are actually giving off strange readings of dark energy around everything?  Took me a second start up to get some of the early info refreshed in my mind. 

[General Battuta]

The Human Reaper was the only blemish on an otherwise perfect game. Unfortunately, it cheapens the whole Suicide Mission with its silliness, and it threatens to destroy the entire Mass Effect story arc with its absurd 'Reapers take the form of species they consume' lore.



I hope they hear fan feedback and make the Reapers scary and unknowable again for ME3.

[toezz]

Dethateer wrote...

That Reaper died a hundred million years ago, not 25k. Lrn2listen2TIM, plox.

No YOU need to LRn2ListN

The Reaper ship is believed to be over 37 Million years old.
And i don`t think they`ll miss by 63 Million years

you just got wacked with self inflicted heavy burn

i gain 20+ renegade points

Modifié par toezz, 08 février 2010 - 06:47 .

[toezz]

Double Post--

Modifié par toezz, 08 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[WoodWizzard87]

toezz wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

That Reaper died a hundred million years ago, not 25k. Lrn2listen2TIM, plox.

No YOU need to LRn2ListN

The Reaper ship is believed to be over 37 Million years old.
And i don`t think they`ll miss by 63 Million years

you just got wacked with self inflicted heavy burn

i gain 20+ renegade points

So.. if its over 37 million years old, it could be 100 million years old right?  I still have no idea, how TIM knew how old the derelict reaper was, or even knew where to find it at.  Plus if TIM knew all about the reapers and indoctrination, why would he send a research team to study one for the last couple years even with its mass effect core still online?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Personally, I don't think the DNA is what defines the look of the reaper. That's silly on several levels. Rather, I think that the shape of the human reaper is meant as a *tribute* by the reapers towards the human race. The more I think about this, the more I think that the reapers are uplifting/ascending humanity in some sort of twisted gesture of respect.

Humanity is the one who was ultimately responsible for beating Sovereign. Shepard himself is directly responsible, in fact; Nazara only became vulnerable after he took control of Saren, and after Shep killed Saren. This fits in well with why Harbinger released control of the Collector General right before the base exploded/was cleansed by radiation. It seems that if a reaper is remote controlling an intelligent being directly, and that being dies, the reaper suffers reprecussions and is stunned or wounded or possibly killed. The possessed collectors you fight throughout the game probably get around this by being indirectly controlled. Harbinger is controlling the Collector General, who is then controlling the specific collector.

Anyway, then after Sovereign was stunned, it was a human fleet and in particular a human ship (Normandy) that made the killing blow.

We know that the reapers consider "ascension" into their ranks to be an honor, so it makes sense to me that they'd build the reaper's core fashioned after the species that was used to produce that reaper, in much the same way you might respect a particularly dangerous enemy. It also makes sense that they wouldn't tkae races that can't actually resist them. You don't respect an enemy who just gets curbstomped.

Just remember though that Legion and EDI both say that there are multiple programs running inside a reaper. So there might even be more than one terminator looking thing inside a large hull

There are multiple programs within Legion, yet he is only one mobile platform. A reaper, being massively larger as well as massively more advanced, can undoubtedly hold the millions of seperate intelligences within its hardware.

Plus if TIM knew all about the reapers and indoctrination, why would he send a research team to study one for the last couple years even with its mass effect core still online?

I'd imagine he assumed that, without the reaper's intelligence, indoctrination wouldn't occur. That makes quite a bit of sense, to be honest. 

Modifié par Cpl_Facehugger, 08 février 2010 - 06:57 .

[dissonance-zaon]

Only read the first few pages of this thread. Thought I'd chime in with a quick opinion.



Really? The thought of the Reapers making a human Reaper is hard to grasp? We already knew the Reapers were uhh... REAPING organics every 50,000 years or so for a reason. They already hinted that it could be for "resources" and it looks like it rang true. Not a big twist in my opinion.



As to why it looks like a human skeleton. (1490 mentioned earlier) that Larva was incredibly small in comparison to a full Reaper. Maybe it's just some kind of homage to their ascension? Located inside the Reaper's body somewhere. *shrugs*



We just don't know enough to be jumping to conclusions, but I guess some people just don't look before they leap.

[General Battuta]

I'm hoping that the Human Reaper would have matured into a squid-style organism.



I just wish they'd made that explicit in the game, because goodness it was silly.



The very fact that we don't know enough is frustrating and arguably a storyline problem.

[Balek-Vriege]

toezz wrote...

CubemonkeyNYC wrote...

Am I the only that noticed that in the final shot of the reapers, a number of them were shaped differently than the sovereign style that we're used to?

No your not the only one..

I have mentioned this in various post.. And they have an similar core shape, but are each individual.
Which makes me belivie that each individual reaper is constructed under the influence of another individual being, reason for this is unknown, just for fun or for some symbiolic meaning.

t.ex: Shepard = Human Reaper

Watching the ending the first time I actually didn't notice they were different and I actually thought they we all the same.  Watching the sequence on youtube its obvious 95% of them are different compared to the Sovereign looking ones.

I did get the feeling that the Human Reaper form was just that because of its size:  The actual living form of a Reaper.  After a Reaper is fully grown an armored, insectoid-like carapace is built around it which is the "ship" part we see.  That's why they all look so similar.  The form of the actual Reapers are based exactly upon the race which they grow from but the armor/ship design is as indentical as possible for optimization purposes of Reaper ship tech.

Think of it this way:

Unfinished Human Reaper= Unborn Human
Fully grown Human Reaper= A full grown Human
A flying Human Reaper= A Human incased in a personalized, heavily armored vehicle.

---

In the end people think the human reaper is a copy of the terminator but it's kind of hard not to. Exactly what else is a cyborg-looking human skeleton head going to look like?  Actually the Human Reaper looks better because it's more organic looking.  Who knows maybe when finished the Human Reaper may have had skin.

The similarity I think that's most apparent story wise are that Reapers are like the borg Borg on a grander scale.  You get the feeling with both that some race pulled a Quarian trying to ascend to immortality.  The borg kept it small and basically cybernetics took over their civilation.  Whether it was their civilation which was seeking perfection or run-away cybernetic/nano technology which caused it is unknown.  The Quarians tried to make themselves immortal by attempting to make their dead ancentors VIs into AIs. The failed, they made Geth as a byproduct of the reasearch and got their butts kicked by them.

The Reapers based off ME2 plot revelations were most like a species that a) Wanted immortality,   Thought the galaxy a prison and c)  If they don't escape the galaxy, immortality will only last as long as the galaxy does.  So they turned themselves into immortal super ships that can go anywhere in the universe.  Maybe the Reaper "core" doesn't consist of "programs" but instead the brain patterns/souls of all the lifeforms the Reaper was created from.

In some twisted savior complex they feel the need to "save" other species from their ultimate mortality by doing the same thing to them.  Millions of years later that plan has evolved into a pattern of galatic genocide and assimilation.  Again similar to Borg, but more similar to some Sci-Fi epic novels where there's the evil ancient threat that does pretty much the exact same thing.  Not a bad plot line since Sci-Fi studies best what would happen to humanity if we eliminated death, loss, hate and/or war and if by doing so, would we eliminate our ability to experience life, joy, love, peace and all the good stuff thus becoming husks of our former selves.

[toezz]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...
Nazara only became vulnerable after he took control of Saren, and after Shep killed Saren. This fits in well with why Harbinger released control of the Collector General right before the base exploded/was cleansed by radiation. It seems that if a reaper is remote controlling an intelligent being directly, and that being dies, the reaper suffers reprecussions and is stunned or wounded or possibly killed.

Haha migth just be the matrix?

Other than that.. my thougths excatly on your post =)

[dissonance-zaon]

General Battuta wrote...

The very fact that we don't know enough is frustrating and arguably a storyline problem.

That would be true if this were ME3 and the end of the trilogy. There's another game with more answers coming... and inevitably more questions.